Draft

[Mopreme]

I think the bills made a mistake in picking byrd over everette brown who was still available. Imagine the pass rush, him lined up at de and maybin at outside linebacker. Plus, schoebel is not getting any younger. Just my two cents...

[mjohns85]

i agree. i was extactic when brown was still on the board when we were picking in round 2. i thought for sure we were going to pick him. i guess we will see in a few years if we made the correct choice.

[Jerry Jabber]

I think the bills made a mistake in picking byrd over everette brown who was still available. Imagine the pass rush, him lined up at de and maybin at outside linebacker. Plus, schoebel is not getting any younger. Just my two cents...

 

I agree. I felt we needed more than Maybin. IMO, Schobel has seen his better days.

[DaGimp]

ya i thought this would happen but u never have enough CBs

[SuperKillerRobots]

I would have almost rather have had the 1st round pick in 2010 that Carolina gave up for him than Byrd. Of course I'd be fine with the whole thing if Byrd picks off 6 passes this year.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Time will only tell but it is certainly a legit argument. To stir the pot a bit more, Connor Barwin was also available with that pick and his upside is as high as anyone's.

 

I'm one of those guys who believe (like the New York Giants, who drafted Clint Stintim) that you simply cannot have enough pass rushers. Yes Byrd versus Brown and Barwin is something I'll be watching for many years.

 

The Bills also had an opportunity to pick a potentially excellent pass rusher when they selected Shawn Nelson at #121. Also on the board at that time was Lawrence Sidbury who most scouts had given (like Nelson) a 2nd round grade. Sidbury is a shade over 6'3" and 266 pounds. He was the fastest D-lineman at the combine with a 4.57 forty. In fact all his measurables were excellent as was his performance in the drills. But he was not only a workout warrior. He dominated at the Division I-AA level making first team All America twice, had 11.5 sacks and 20 TFL his senior year before leading his Richmond team to the Division I-AA (FCS) Championship game where his four sacks helped his team win the championship. Throughout his junior and senior season he was a machine, forcing and recovering fumbles, batting down passes and even intercepting passes.

 

I am good with the Byrd and Nelson picks but I'd have been just as happy if not more so with Everette Brown instead of Byrd or Lawrence Sidbury instead of Nelson.

[silvermike]

I am good with the Byrd and Nelson picks but I'd have been just as happy if not more so with Everette Brown instead of Byrd or Lawrence Sidbury instead of Nelson.

 

You're the first one I've seen complain about the Nelson selection.

[The Senator]

I absolutely wanted Brown. Maybin AND Brown would have been awesome.

 

FSU DE Everette Brown Highlights

 

Mike Leach would have picked Brown.

 

Dick Jauron likes D-backs...

 

Jairus Byrd interception in the red zone

 

Jairus Byrd INT in Sun Bowl

 

Bobby April probably likes Byrd too...

 

Jairus Byrd, Punt Return Specialist

 

Jairus Byrd 87 Yard Punt Return TD

 

You Can't Tackle Jairus Byrd

 

After watching those hi-lites, I like Byrd too. But Mike Leach would have picked Brown.

[Alphadawg7]

I dont know about you, but I am tired of watching WR's run past our safeties. Its funny, I always see so many complaints about the lack of INT's and productoin by our safeties, and then we go out and grab a guy who was the #2 rated safety who is a natural ball hawk AFTER we already took the best rated pass rusher in the draft.

 

Would you rather have a really good FS or a second pass rusher who wouldnt start? Brown has lots of questions marks, which is why every team passed on him at least once, and several passed on him twice despite needing pass rush help.

 

I will trust their assesments over the posters on here who only have a you tube highlight to go off of.

 

I have seen Byrd play in person, and seen many games on TV, the kid is a serious player. I think he will be one of our best picks in this draft personally, but only time will tell.

[The Dean]

Has anyone given much thought to why Brown was still available in the 2nd round?

 

I think Brown would have made us all happier (myself included), at the time. But I have to wonder why all those teams passed on Brown, some multiple times, if he was such a stud DE.

 

I guess we will see if Byrd is the real deal. I don't really believe in judging a draft pick by looking at who else the team could have drafted. I look at the drafted player and ask, "is he the guy the team thought he was when they drafted him?" If Byrd turns out to be a safety or safety/corner with real ball skills, and causes some turnovers this year, and in the coming years, I will be happy with the choice.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Time will only tell but it is certainly a legit argument. To stir the pot a bit more, Connor Barwin was also available with that pick and his upside is as high as anyone's.

 

I'm one of those guys who believe (like the New York Giants, who drafted Clint Stintim) that you simply cannot have enough pass rushers. Yes Byrd versus Brown and Barwin is something I'll be watching for many years.

 

The Bills also had an opportunity to pick a potentially excellent pass rusher when they selected Shawn Nelson at #121. Also on the board at that time was Lawrence Sidbury who most scouts had given (like Nelson) a 2nd round grade. Sidbury is a shade over 6'3" and 266 pounds. He was the fastest D-lineman at the combine with a 4.57 forty. In fact all his measurables were excellent as was his performance in the drills. But he was not only a workout warrior. He dominated at the Division I-AA level making first team All America twice, had 11.5 sacks and 20 TFL his senior year before leading his Richmond team to the Division I-AA (FCS) Championship game where his four sacks helped his team win the championship. Throughout his junior and senior season he was a machine, forcing and recovering fumbles, batting down passes and even intercepting passes.

 

I am good with the Byrd and Nelson picks but I'd have been just as happy if not more so with Everette Brown instead of Byrd or Lawrence Sidbury instead of Nelson.

You're the first one I've seen complain about the Nelson selection.

It wasn't a complaint Mike. As I said in the outset, these are meant to be legit arguments, in other words, not negative criticisms. I pointed out that Sidbury and Nelson were both projected as 2nd round talents which is to say that they are pretty equivalent and were both excellent values. I also said that I was good with the Bills picks. But it does seem strange (to me anyways) that this hasn't been more of a hot topic (regarding Everette Brown, Connor Barwin, and Lawrence Sidbury). Maybin has played mostly the left side and the other two mostly the right side. We'd have bookends. This site was just crawling with those names before the draft and I know many people felt that we should stack pass rushers. If the 32 year old Aaron Schobel doesn't get more than the 7.5 total sacks he's gotten over the last two years, I won't be the only one wondering why we passed up the chance to get another highly regarded pass rusher.

[Mopreme]

Brown was rated as 1st round talent whereas byrd was considered late 2nd round. Furthermore, the bills were very weak in rushing the passer. I would have preferred brown or even sidbury. To me, defensive end is more important than safety. I think we would have been fine with whitner at free safety and scott at strong, maybe even sign roy williams to play ss. In the end though, the pick was made and we just will have to see whether the bills made the right decision.

[The Dean]

Brown was rated as 1st round talent

 

 

By whom? Obviously, not by the NFL teams, as he lasted until the middle of the second round.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

I dont know about you, but I am tired of watching WR's run past our safeties. Its funny, I always see so many complaints about the lack of INT's and productoin by our safeties, and then we go out and grab a guy who was the #2 rated safety who is a natural ball hawk AFTER we already took the best rated pass rusher in the draft.

 

Would you rather have a really good FS or a second pass rusher who wouldnt start? Brown has lots of questions marks, which is why every team passed on him at least once, and several passed on him twice despite needing pass rush help.

 

I will trust their assesments over the posters on here who only have a you tube highlight to go off of.

 

I have seen Byrd play in person, and seen many games on TV, the kid is a serious player. I think he will be one of our best picks in this draft personally, but only time will tell.

Well for the sake of a good sports discussion (now someone will accuse me of arguing), I'll take the bait. Let me restate, I'm not saying I know better than anyone. I am saying these are legit questions.

 

I believe the first thing I wrote was that time will tell. That said Maybin played predominantly left defensive end. Everette Brown and Connor Barwin both played predominantly on the right side. So they are not redundant and wouldn't necessarily take playing time away from each other. On top of that with Schobel being 32, having missed 11 games last year, and only amassing 7.5 sacks over the past two years, I think a very strong argument could be made for taking either Brown/Barwin/Sidbury.

 

Has anyone given much thought to why Brown was still available in the 2nd round?

I think Brown would have made us all happier (myself included), at the time. But I have to wonder why all those teams passed on Brown, some multiple times, if he was such a stud DE.

That's true. Brown did slide although Carolina liked him enough to trade next year's first rounder to get back into the 2nd round to nab him at #43. Even if he was not worth the #11 pick for instance, isn't it possible that at #43 he was an excellent value?

 

And as I mentioned before, Connor Barwin was also available and I know he was highly regarded. If I had been on the board back when Donte Whitner was drafted, I would have questioned whether we should have taken Haloti Ngata or Broderick Bunkley instead. Sorry if this is upsetting to anyone.

[The Dean]

That's true. Brown did slide although Carolina liked him enough to trade next year's first rounder to get back into the 2nd round to nab him at #43. Even if he was not worth the #11 pick for instance, isn't it possible that at #43 he was an excellent value?

 

And as I mentioned before, Connor Barwin was also available and I know he was highly regarded. If I had been on the board back when Donte Whitner was drafted, I would have questioned whether we should have taken Haloti Ngata or Broderick Bunkley instead. Sorry if this is upsetting to anyone.

 

 

In 2006, The Bills opted for the safer pick (Whitner) who they trusted would be a certain upgrade and starter, with great versatility. I don't think you were needed to tell them about Ngata and Bunkley, as I am certain they knew about them. Both of them had question marks, and the FO decided they weren't in a position to take a risk.

 

Partly because of their drafts the past three years, the Bills were in a position to take a risk with a big upside, this year. Surely Maybin wasn't the safest choice on the board, nor was Byrd. Both have very big upsides, though.

 

I have a feeling the same people who complained about the Bills playing it safe in 2006, will complain (are complaining) that they took a risk this year. As a fan, I think the wisest course is to hope the team's picks pan out.

 

 

EDIT: Trading next year's 1st round pick, to get Brown in the 2nd strikes me as a horrible move.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

In 2006, The Bills opted for the safer pick (Whitner) who they trusted would be a certain upgrade and starter, with great versatility. I don't think you were needed to tell them about Ngata and Bunkley, as I am certain they knew about them. Both of them had question marks, and the FO decided they weren't in a position to take a risk.

 

Partly because of their drafts the past three years, the Bills were in a position to take a risk with a big upside, this year. Surely Maybin wasn't the safest choice on the board, nor was Byrd. Both have very big upsides, though.

 

I have a feeling the same people who complained about the Bills playing it safe in 2006, will complain (are complaining) that they took a risk this year. As a fan, I think the wisest course is to hope the team's picks pan out.

 

EDIT: Trading next year's 1st round pick, to get Brown in the 2nd strikes me as a horrible move.

Dean, I'm not gonna debate you on the other points but of course, we hope the picks pan out. That's why I didn't start a fire with its own thread and why I've used the gasoline sparingly I believe. But the reason we're all here is to talk about these things, no?

[ohiobuffalo]

I think the bills made a mistake in picking byrd over everette brown who was still available. Imagine the pass rush, him lined up at de and maybin at outside linebacker. Plus, schoebel is not getting any younger. Just my two cents...

Thats tuff but I would rather have a ball hawk at saftey next to Whitner.

[The Dean]

Dean, I'm not gonna debate you on the other points but of course, we hope the picks pan out. That's why I didn't start a fire with its own thread and why I've used the gasoline sparingly I believe. But the reason we're all here is to talk about these things, no?

 

 

Absolutely. I have no interest in re-debating the 1st pick in 2006 though, either. I don't think anyone is changing anyone else mind, at this stage...we have gone round and round, the past few years.

 

As for this year, I agree the Bills had some interesting options in the 2nd round, as they did in the 1st round (#11). I wouldn't have been upset, at all, had the Bills picked Brown, or Barwin...or a number of other players. Byrd wasn't even on my radar, to be truthful. Mostly, I was hoping they didn't pick a TE there, as I was pretty sure a good one would be available later in the draft. And I also didn't want them to pick some questionable OT, simply so they could say they drafted one. By that time, I wasn't sold on any of the OTs left...especially at that pick. Mostly, I was concerned they didn't pick one of the potentially great C/Gs still left on the board. (Of course, I got over that as soon as they picked Wood, who I liked almost as much as Mack.)

 

That they picked Byrd here, tells me they really like this guy. My post draft research suggests it is with good reason, although I can't say I have seen very much of Byrd's game...so I have to rely exclusively on the opinions of others. It also suggests they stayed true to their board, and the ratings they had on each player.

 

When if comes to evaluating, and rating, drafts (outside of using the actual performance of the picks years later) there are several ways to look at things. I would expect the team evaluates the PROCESS of the draft, at some point. How well did they get information, predict who would be available at various times...the nuts and bolts of what it takes to be prepared to do your best in the War Room. Few of us, if any, are privy to that kind of info, and it is not likely to be a good topic for debate here.

 

But, there are other evaluations to be made, too, some of which we can attempt to play along with. We have to make guesses, and assumptions, of course, but that is part of the fun. If you start with the assumption that they are professionals, trying to improve the team, you can infer some things based on the choices made and not made. Of course, if you are one of the "Juaron only picks DBs", "they pick players they know will be cheap to sign"...or stuff like that, then real analysis is probably way over your head. (I don't mean you, SJ, when I say "you" in that context...I mean any moron, which you obviously are not.)

 

There are a number of evaluations I would make, if I were in charge are. One of the most important would be:

 

1. How well did the team meet the goals they set out at the start of the draft? Of course, we don't know all the goals the Bills had going into this draft. But, I think we can guess that improving the pass rush and reconstructing the interior of the offensive line were two things they wanted to accomplish. I'd have to imagine getting a real threat at TE was one, as well, especially since the draft seemed to have a number of good pass-catching TEs. I think the Bills passed with flying colors on meeting those goals.

 

Did they also want to add an OLB who could step right in? Were they looking for a ball hawking safety? If so, I wonder what grade they give themselves for the picks of Byrd and Harris? Were there other goals that they didn't meet? What do you suppose they were?

 

Without going into depth on the others, I might also evaluate the draft:

 

2. On a round-by-round basis

 

3. On a pick-by-pick basis

 

4. On a position-by-position basis

 

5. On how well they stuck to their board, and their pre-draft evaluations

 

etc...

 

So, while I agree one can make a case for a different pick with the #42 pick, it is really a small cog in a much more complicated evaluation. I don't mind those discussions, but feel they lack the kind of context that's important, and ignore the impact a different pick may have had on the rest of their draft. So, please don't think that I am criticizing those discussions. I just try to avoid them, without bringing in some broader context.

 

But, if we are going to engage in this kind of a discussion (after all, that's what The Wall is for, right?) I have my biggest issue with the final pick, Ellis Lankster. I have nothing against Lankster...nothing at all. I just wonder why they thought they needed two of the same player with the 6th and 7th round picks? Maybe they were simply sticking to their board. Although, in the 7th round, I wouldn't mind them taking a flyer on something else, since they just took a CB in the 6th. But, I'm mostly confused that I can't figure out what they were thinking. I have to believe they have a real purpose, there.

 

But, if my biggest complaint concerns their 7th round pick, I guess I should just shut the hell up.

[/dev/null]

Another change I would have made to the draft:

Erin Andrews was a tad overdressed

[Solomon Grundy]

By whom? Obviously, not by the NFL teams, as he lasted until the middle of the second round.

Had Everette Brown been 6'4" or 6'5" he'd have been the Bills pick at 11. Teams passed on him for his lack of height, that's it. Carolina gave up their 1st rd. pick in next year's draft to acquire him so technically he is a 1st rd. draft pick.

[The Dean]

Had Everette Brown been 6'4" or 6'5" he'd have been the Bills pick at 11.

 

 

If my aunt had balls...

 

Carolina gave up their 1st rd. pick in next year's draft to acquire him so technically he is a 1st rd. draft pick.

 

 

What? Technically he is a 2nd round pick, as that is the round in which he was picked. They spent their 1st round pick, to take a guy in the 2nd round this year...a guy that was passed over, again and again, by many teams in the NFL.

 

BTW, I have nothing against Brown. I watched him play quite a bit, living here in North Florida. I hope he does well. I expect he will be fine, if not spectacular. But, I don't think he was rated as a 1st rounder by most teams, at least those needing a DE, as he sunk to the mid 2nd.

[Solomon Grundy]

If my aunt had balls...

 

 

 

 

What? Technically he is a 2nd round pick, as that is the round in which he was picked. They spent their 1st round pick, to take a guy in the 2nd round this year...a guy that was passed over, again and again, by many teams in the NFL.

 

BTW, I have nothing against Brown. I watched him play quite a bit, living here in North Florida. I hope he does well. I expect he will be fine, if not spectacular. But, I don't think he was rated as a 1st rounder by most teams, at least those needing a DE, as he sunk to the mid 2nd.

I don't know about your aunt, but you sure have Dick Jauron's balls in your mouth.

[The Dean]

I don't know about your aunt, but you sure have Dick Jauron's balls in your mouth.

 

 

Where did you get that from? Did I praise Jauron in that post? Have I praised him much anywhere?

 

I'm not an unthinking knee-jerk hater, like many here, but I have many issues with what DJ has done.

[billsfan714]

A great pass rush will protect your secondary more than a great secondary will protect your pass rush.

[offde-fence]

We used our first five picks on areas of necessary upgrade, and look to be good picks at that. I really wanted E. Brown, more than any of the other DE's. We'll have to trust their grades, though, and wait and see. I also thought, since there were so many good options deep into the second and even third round, that the Bills should have traded up more to get, perhaps E. Brown, or Sidbury when he was there. Still, we got a retooled O-line, DE, TE, and playmaking Safety. They put together with this years picks as competitive a group as possible, without loading up too much in one area. My guess is that with next years coach up in the air, the top of the F.O. didn't think fairly about trading away next years picks for this years possible gains. I'd bet Juaron wouldn't have minded, though. We'll have to wait and see. I think we'll be a balanced team if we stay healthy. I hope, too, on a different note, that the Bills look hard at what the Giants did to New England in the SB. It seems like the best way to deal with that team.

[ans4e64]

Had Everette Brown been 6'4" or 6'5" he'd have been the Bills pick at 11. Teams passed on him for his lack of height, that's it. Carolina gave up their 1st rd. pick in next year's draft to acquire him so technically he is a 1st rd. draft pick.

 

Are you serious?