Is Dante a bust??

[Bill from NYC]

Vernon Davis wasn't there at #11 and I believe that Bunkley fell out of favor because of character and effort concerns leading up to the draft. I don't remember there being that big of a Bunkley faction by draft day. Fans here were salivating over Ngata when that #8 pick came around. No it wasn't 99.9%, but it was the majority of the board.

 

A few of us were looking at a trade down for more picks, and to grab Davin Joseph and/or Nick Mangold.

[1billsfan]

A few of us were looking at a trade down for more picks, and to grab Davin Joseph and/or Nick Mangold.

 

Jeeez, I'd certainly rather have that extra draft pick AND Nick Mangold than Whitner. Please go and offer your services to One Bills Drive immediately.

 

We actually lost a pick when they foolishly moved up to go and get McCargo to try and cover their asses for not getting Ngata! Damn, I'm getting angry all over again!

[Bill from NYC]

Jeeez, I'd certainly rather have that extra draft pick AND Nick Mangold than Whitner. Please go and offer your services to One Bills Drive immediately.

 

Why, are they looking for a janitor?

[The Dean]

Jeeez, I'd certainly rather have that extra draft pick AND Nick Mangold than Whitner. Please go and offer your services to One Bills Drive immediately.

 

We actually lost a pick when they foolishly moved up to go and get McCargo to try and cover their asses for not getting Ngata! Damn, I'm getting angry all over again!

 

 

OR, maybe they thought McCargo was more suited to the Bills' defense. Why do you assume they operate in panic mode?

[1billsfan]

Why, are they looking for a janitor?

 

That'll be Jauron's job. Make sure you blow a lot of snot rags and toss them on the floor so Mr. "It's hard to win in the NFL" has to pick them up.

[StupidNation]

I'd like to re-ask a question that no pro-Whitner has dared to answer.

 

If we cut him and his huge salary can someone tell me what we would lose defensively? Our team played just as good without him in the lineup. That's the definition of a non-factor, non-impact player. Those guys are worth maybe a $1 mil a year and no one pays any attention to them except when they screw up, and yet that's exactly the player Whitner is.

 

If our defense is not bolstered by his presence why is he even getting paid that money? For an example of how a very good player changes the game at safety look at Polamalu and Reed.

[1billsfan]

OR, maybe they thought McCargo was more suited to the Bills' defense. Why do you assume they operate in panic mode?

 

 

You do realize that picking up Owens was a panic move don't you?

[Chandler#81]

... Why do you assume they operate in panic mode?

 

'cause it makes me feel better to tolerate all the blunder picks..

[StupidNation]

It hasn't, he's very good in coverage. He gets "exposed" because the opposing QB generally has all the time in the world in the pocket.

 

He's very good in coverage? Can you point out how that's possible? He is constantly picked on by O-coordinators for a reason. Go watch the games, he's smoked time and time again.

[Bill from NYC]

OR, maybe they thought McCargo was more suited to the Bills' defense. Why do you assume they operate in panic mode?

 

Brian, I don't know whether or not they were in a state of "panic." But at the time there was said to be a big dropoff in talent at the DT position after McCargo. This tells us otherwise, but if you look you will see that no DTs were indeed drafted in round 2.

[atlbillsfan1975]

Personally i dont believe Donte is a bust. Not yet atleast. And with news he is going to switch to FS this year, i hope it helps his level of play. He and the rest of the secondary could use a pass rush. Also the other Safety taken in the first round of that class Micheal Huff is in danger of being cut by Oakland. So we needed a safety and i think we give him this year to show what he has. Also if the Bills get a better pass rush, then the entire defensive backfield looks better.

[KD in CA]

8. Donte Whitner, safety, Bills: The Bills were criticized for drafting Whitner with the eighth overall pick -- some draft observers called it a clear reach. But Whitner has played well through three seasons. Though a recent arrest could be the start of a troubling trend, Whitner has done enough to justify his selection. Verdict (for now): Not a bust.

 

http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=538191

 

 

Man, what a depressing list. Not Whitner so much as McCargo. Those friggin idiots trade back into the first round to take the third best guy in the NC State Dline?? And taken before Deangelo Williams and Nick Mangold??

[Bill from NYC]

Personally i dont believe Donte is a bust. Not yet atleast. And with news he is going to switch to FS this year, i hope it helps his level of play. He and the rest of the secondary could use a pass rush. Also the other Safety taken in the first round of that class Micheal Huff is in danger of being cut by Oakland. So we needed a safety and i think we give him this year to show what he has. Also if the Bills get a better pass rush, then the entire defensive backfield looks better.

 

I agree. Although few if any were as angry over this selection as I was, or even still am, it is certainly worthwhile for the Bills to give Whitner another year before labeling him a bust as a player imo.

[billybob]

Vernon Davis wasn't there at #11 and I believe that Bunkley fell out of favor because of character and effort concerns leading up to the draft. I don't remember there being that big of a Bunkley faction by draft day. Fans here were salivating over Ngata when that #8 pick came around. No it wasn't 99.9%, but it was the majority of the board.

This was before the draft that's why Vernon Davis is being mentioned- and as a Ngata fan I know there was a large constituency for Bunkley- because it was a running argument on this board.

[Ramius]

I agree. Although few if any were as angry over this selection as I was, or even still am, it is certainly wowthwhile for the Bills to give Whitner another year before labeling him a bust as a player imo.

 

To me, there's a difference between someone who hasn't lived up to their selection and an out and out bust. Just because someone hasn't live dup to expectations doesn't mean you cut them, especially when those expectations are sky high. Mike Williams was an out-and-out bust. The guy simply couldn't play football. But Whitner is a solid football thus far, and only 23 years old. The guy can easily get better and is still years from entering the "prime" of his career. You dont cut a good football player simply for not "living up to draft selection spot."That would be the height of stupidity.

[Bill from NYC]

To me, there's a difference between someone who hasn't lived up to their selection and an out and out bust. Just because someone hasn't live dup to expectations doesn't mean you cut them, especially when those expectations are sky high. Mike Williams was an out-and-out bust. The guy simply couldn't play football. But Whitner is a solid football thus far, and only 23 years old. The guy can easily get better and is still years from entering the "prime" of his career. You dont cut a good football player simply for not "living up to draft selection spot."That would be the height of stupidity.

 

You may or may not agree, but imo Whitner and Edwards are in a similar situation. Part of this statement is based on where they were selected. I think that both have shown that they can play, yet both need to improve their games. I also see signs that both are capable of doing so.

[The Dean]

I'd like to re-ask a question that no pro-Whitner has dared to answer.

 

If we cut him and his huge salary can someone tell me what we would lose defensively? Our team played just as good without him in the lineup. That's the definition of a non-factor, non-impact player. Those guys are worth maybe a $1 mil a year and no one pays any attention to them except when they screw up, and yet that's exactly the player Whitner is.

 

If our defense is not bolstered by his presence why is he even getting paid that money? For an example of how a very good player changes the game at safety look at Polamalu and Reed.

 

 

Let's see...the Bills were 5-2 in the games before Donte's injury (5-3 if you count the game in which he was injured). The team managed only TWO more wins during the season...only one of which came while Donte was on the sidelines. Of course, Whitner wasn't the same player, last year, after the injury, as he obviously came back too soon.

 

And, while I don't have time to look for the defensive splits, for last season, an eyeball look, at the game-by-game total defense, seems to reveal a worse defensive performance the second half of the season (post-Whitner injuy) than the first half, when Whitner was healthy.

 

So, what are you basing your claim "Our team played just as good without him in the lineup" on?

[The Dean]

Brian, I don't know whether or not they were in a state of "panic." But at the time there was said to be a big dropoff in talent at the DT position after McCargo. This tells us otherwise, but if you look you will see that no DTs were indeed drafted in round 2.

 

 

I have no idea how that relates to my question of 1billsfan.

[Bill from NYC]

I have no idea how that relates to my question of 1billsfan.

 

I thought that he was thinking along the lines that The Bills FO thought that they had to trade up or else risk losing out on McCargo, who most had rated a lot higher than the DTs left on the board.

It might very well be true, but I'm not sure if this fully equates to panic.

[The Dean]

I thought that he was thinking along the lines that The Bills FO thought that they had to trade up or else risk losing out on McCargo, who most had rated a lot higher than the DTs left on the board.

It might very well be true, but I'm not sure if this fully equates to panic.

 

 

I don't doubt that's why the Bills moved up. But, in 1billsfan's world it was to make up for not taking Ngata. Ngata was there, and if they wanted him, they would have taken him. i think they liked Whitner better, and thought McCargo fit their scheme better (everyone seems to forget there was a LOT of talk about Ngata being a 3-4 DT, as well as other issues, I believe), and moved up to get him, for the reasons you mention.

 

Whitner, given the state of the team, at that time, was probably a safer choice, and had less of a chance to be a bust. Given the versatility he has shown, by playing a multitude of defensive positions, Whitner has been the player the Bills thought they drafted. Because of the injuries, and lack of pass rush, the coaches have not used Whitner the way they probably intended (at least not to the fullest) when they drafted him, though.