Per PFT: Bills Shopping Parrish

[stuckincincy]

Agreed. The NFL's best teams have playmakers. Roscoe is one of the only members of the team who is a playmaking threat. This Bills team for whatever reason seems to get injured more than the league average - so if Josh Reed goes down, who plays slot? Johnson? Evans? TO? Hardy? None of those guys are slot players and the Bills don't have a TE on the roster who can catch over the middle. Plus what happens next season when TO is gone, Roscoe is hypothetically off the roster, and Hardy proves to be a bust. That leaves the Bills with no Z receiver, as Evans and Reed are Y and X? Again, assuming Hardy sucks.

 

Also, the Bills are not very deep at CB and RB (1st 3 weeks at least). Do we really want 1st teamers - Freddy and Leodis back there on every return? Look what happened to Hester when he became an every down player.

 

Here are last season's injury numbers:

 

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dw...in.34d3911.html

[Adam]

Agreed. The NFL's best teams have playmakers. Roscoe is one of the only members of the team who is a playmaking threat. This Bills team for whatever reason seems to get injured more than the league average - so if Josh Reed goes down, who plays slot? Johnson? Evans? TO? Hardy? None of those guys are slot players and the Bills don't have a TE on the roster who can catch over the middle. Plus what happens next season when TO is gone, Roscoe is hypothetically off the roster, and Hardy proves to be a bust. That leaves the Bills with no Z receiver, as Evans and Reed are Y and X? Again, assuming Hardy sucks.

 

Also, the Bills are not very deep at CB and RB (1st 3 weeks at least). Do we really want 1st teamers - Freddy and Leodis back there on every return? Look what happened to Hester when he became an every down player.

He's a decent 4th WR at best and a great punt returner. He will never be an offensive playmaker- not in college, not in the pros

[Kelly the Dog]

He's a decent 4th WR at best and a great punt returner. He will never be an offensive playmaker- not in college, not in the pros

A playmaker can make one "play" a game and be enormously effective and valuable. He doesn't at all have to be a 50 reception receiver let alone an 80 reception receiver. He doesn't have to start to be extremely useful or to make defenses adjust to or worry about him. He just needs to get the ball 3-5 times a game to do his magic like he does on punts. The Bills, for no good reason, don't find a way to do that. He's a unique player and unique talent and we try to use him conventionally and sporadically

[Sisyphean Bills]

I'd rather try to find a roster spot for him than give him away. T.O. signed a 1 year deal only, so having to get rid of a younger WR to "make room" for T.O. doesn't really make a whole lot of sense. Hardy may not be ready this year as a WR and having something other than cut-rate depth at all positions is not something to be laughed off. And we all know that RP is the real deal as a special team player. He adds more to the team than, say, another useless FB/TE hybrid or Hardy on crutches.

[Adam]

A playmaker can make one "play" a game and be enormously effective and valuable. He doesn't at all have to be a 50 reception receiver let alone an 80 reception receiver. He doesn't have to start to be extremely useful or to make defenses adjust to or worry about him. He just needs to get the ball 3-5 times a game to do his magic like he does on punts. The Bills, for no good reason, don't find a way to do that. He's a unique player and unique talent and we try to use him conventionally and sporadically

Funny, he was pretty average at University of Miami too. He's not that good. He really, really isn't

[Kelly the Dog]

Funny, he was pretty average at University of Miami too. He's not that good. He really, really isn't

He didn't really play full-time as a WR in Miami except for one year and was great. In eight games as a starter he had eight TDs as a receiver, which is 8th on Miami's all-time single season list. He is a unique talent and needs to be used uniquely. he shouldnt be expected to play full time or put up huge numbers.

 

The 2004 season saw Parrish become the offense's primary target. He started eight games and caught a career-high 43 passes for 693 yards (16.1 avg) and eight touchdowns. His eight scoring grabs rank eighth on the school's single-season record list. He also gained 324 yards on 20 punt returns (16.2 avg) with two touchdowns and carried eight times for 52 yards (6.5 avg). Parrish closed out his career with 81 receptions for 1,285 yards (15.9 avg) and eleven touchdowns in 35 games. His eleven scoring grabs are tied for tenth on Miami's all-time record list.

[The Dean]

Funny, he was pretty average at University of Miami too. He's not that good. He really, really isn't

 

 

No, he was far better than average in 2004...unless you think a 16.1 avg yd/reception with 8 TDs in just 43 receptions, is "average".

[Sisyphean Bills]

He didn't really play full-time as a WR in Miami except for one year and was great. In eight games as a starter he had eight TDs as a receiver, which is 8th on Miami's all-time single season list. He is a unique talent and needs to be used uniquely. he shouldnt be expected to play full time or put up huge numbers.

The problem is that in an offensive scheme where the passing game is mostly throwing the ball within a 5 yard zone around the line of scrimmage, an open field jitterbug speed freak like Parrish has minimized potential. There is no attempt to work him into an open area where he can do damage.

[Kelly the Dog]

There is no attempt to work him into an open area where he can do damage.

Exactly. And they should be sporadically giving him reverses and swing passes and flooding zones on one side while isolating on another (the equivalent of a TE screen), throwing more (and better designed) WR screens, and designing/calling specific plays to get him the ball on the run or in a little open space where he can use the exact same talents he shows as PR. IIRC, there was a post yesterday somewhere that showed he had the best percentage of catches thrown his way the last few years of anyone on the team. Or amongst the best. Get the little bastard the ball. The Bills, amazingly, don't do simple things that almost all teams do.

[Lori]

A playmaker can make one "play" a game and be enormously effective and valuable. He doesn't at all have to be a 50 reception receiver let alone an 80 reception receiver. He doesn't have to start to be extremely useful or to make defenses adjust to or worry about him. He just needs to get the ball 3-5 times a game to do his magic like he does on punts. The Bills, for no good reason, don't find a way to do that. He's a unique player and unique talent and we try to use him conventionally and sporadically

Could say that for a lot of things about this team, no? (And I think we probably have, over the years ...) Yup, those are our Bills.

[SKOOBY]

I think he good for a 4 WR set, send him deep.

[Leonidas]

Dude, I'm seriously not trying to give you a hard time. I think we're just not seeing eye to eye on this. I agree with most of what you're saying. The only thing I question is if the Bills hang on to the "4th round pick" or if they use it to package up and get value in return at a position we're deficient in. Let's say we trade Roscoe and a 3rd for Scheffler, are you saying our team would then be worse than if they didn't make this trade?

 

Roscoe AND third for Scheffler?? That's a terrible trade. I wouldn't give up more than a third for Scheffler anyhow; Parrish is certainly not a "throw in." Did you mean Roscoe for Scheffler and a third? Maybe. Probably not, but maybe...

 

 

I've been saying for months that exploring the trade possibilities for Parrish makes a lot of sense. That he was expendable as a returner and really never has had much value as a WR, and every time I mentioned that McKelvin was more known coming out of college as a PR than KR, it just didn't really sink in. McKelvin is a NCAA record holding Punt Returner, he had 8 PR's for TD's in his college career and only 1 KR for TD. We know that Mcgee can obviously be the KR and Freddy Jackson is a very good backup as a PR as evidenced with his 16 yard per return average last year. For some reason, it just doesn't sink in with people and they disregard it completely. The typical comment I would recieve afterwards would be something like, "well McKelvin can't be a DB, PR, KR, he could get injured". It's like they totally disregarded what I had just said. Sometimes people just have a one track mind and disregard the facts. I understand that Parrish is a popular person, and he has added value in regards to our teams PR's, but we have a guy that may even be better. I'm sure when we all saw McKelvin start off the year as the Kick Returner last year, we would of never have thought that McKelvin could be as good if not better than Mcgee, who btw was the one of the best if not the best KR in the league. Well, we saw how that worked out. Now we are going to doubt that McKelvin can't do the job as the PR when he was the NCAA record holder for most college Return TD's.

 

It looks as if Tim Grahm believes it is logical as well. I mean, how couldn't it be?

 

A third rounder would be very good value. For those who say, "what is a third rounder going to do?" I mean is that even a real question? Maybe the third rounder becomes a good player, maybe he doesn't, just like any draft choice, which could even be said for the 1st overall pick. When a team makes decisions, not all the decisions that are made are for immediate returns. I'd be happy if that 3rd round choice ended up being a starter by his third year. Some people are too short sighted. At least Russ Brandon is taking the logical, pragmatic approach to this, and he is seeing what is out there.

 

My guess is that if a team wanted to trade for Roscoe for a draft choice that he would fetch somewhere in between a 4th-5th rounder. My hopes is that we package a deal that would include Roscoe and a 4th-5th rounder for Brian Waters. That would be what I would ideally want. If that deal doesn't materialize, and all we are offered is a draft choice, ideally a 3rd and maybe a 4th if it is somewhere in top half of the draft.

 

http://www.stadiumwall.com/index.php?showt...p;#entry1384115

 

 

Returning punts is a lot less taxing than returning kicks. Letting McKelvin return punts should not affect his ability to play defense. Kick returns are a different story, whether Roscoe is traded or not.

 

I disagree. With kick returning the return team has time to setup blocks and there are other people to return it if it doesn't come close to you. Returning punts is just...chaos. I seem to remember PR's getting hurt more often than KR's.

 

 

Totally agree with you on this. And what happens if Roscoe gets injured did anyone think of that?

 

What does that have to do with anything? If anything, that supports the case that Roscoe should stay to add depth at PR/KR. If Roscoe gets injured then McKelvin replaces him at PR. If McKelvin gets injured and Roscoe is traded, then who replaces him at PR AND CB???

 

 

If Devin Hester is doubling up on duties as a WR and PR then why can't McKelvin double on PR and DB?

 

Also you say it doesn't make sense? How can you say that? maybe you wouldn't make the trade, thats one thing, but to say that it doesn't make sense when we have a replacement that could be as good, I just don't see how you can reasonably say that.

 

He doesn't. Manning does the returning now. Lovie Smith even held a press conference about it last year.

 

And it doesn't make any sense. His trade value can't be that high. His salary certainly isn't. And he's crazy athletic/dynamic. I say keep him.

 

 

There is a guy who played in 1948-1956 or something that named Jim Cason who is at 14.1, and Roscoe is 14.0. It doesn't seem to me that most of the record books go back to the NFL in the 40s but I could be wrong about that.

 

14.0 for a year is great. 14.0 for a career is just plain sick.

 

We may need KRC to give us the definitive answer on "modern NFL football" and when records go back to. On the same pages of the pro football reference, the guys that played in the 40s are some names that I don't think I usually see in lists of records so it may be that Roscoe is considered the best all-time by the official NFL record book. I am just not sure.

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/lead..._ret_career.htm

 

And yet people are clamoring to trade him for a fourth round pick. Yeah, let's trade the best PR of all time for...Dwayne Wright.

 

 

Exploritory measure to me means that they are not actively trying to trade Parrish, but will listen to offers. If there is an offer they can't refuse they make the trade, but it has to be a very good offer. I don't think it's uncommon or that surprising and it probably happens all the time....

 

 

All I'm saying is that he is more expendable than what many people would like to think, and that the Bills FO wouldn't be doing their due diligence to see what is out there.

 

Nobody's saying not to listen to offers. At some point everybody's expendable (I just don't think anyone is going to give up anything close to what Roscoe's real value to the team is). But there's a difference between listening to offers and actively shopping a player. The former doesn't usually get their own articles on ESPN. I certainly hope it's not the latter.

 

 

I just don't see the use in trading a guy who averages 16 yards every time he touches the ball, changes the way opposing teams gameplan and is a legit threat to score on every punt return.

I assume it would mean putting Jackson on returns - and that guy (if he shows up) is gonna already be carrying the ball 20 times a guy for the first three weeks. So who would return?

 

Excellent point.

[Rockinon]

Parish is an awsome returner. McKelvin is an awsome returner. McGee is an awsome returner. Seems to me that it is pretty amazing that there are sooooo many awsome returners on one team. Yes, these are gifted athletes, but there is more to the equation than thier return abilities. Maybe it's just me but I tend to think that it might have something to do with our blocking schemes during these fantastic run backs.

[Leonidas]

Roscoe recently signed a 3 year $12.31 million contract extension thru 2011 that puts his current Cap figure at $2.75 million. If they did move him it would be just a salary dump situation. i do NOT think he has "starter" talent at Wide Receiver , he is either our 4th or 5th best WR, so that is alot to pay a backup. He is a tremendous Punt Returner who can stop on a dime in traffic and make people miss. Hate to use McKelvin as a PR as they get killed. I'm leaning towards he is a luxury i want to hang on to. i think others like schoebel & kelsay are NOT pulling their Cap Value weight and i would look to replace/cut them first.

 

But a lot of that was in guaranteed money. They'd only save $1-1½M on base salary this year and take a $1M cap hit. It blows my mind when people want to pay a LT who was certainly below average last year $11M/year but want to cut the best PR in the league to save $1M. Then you have the extremely bright people who say "just cut Parrish (or Kelsay) and give the money to Peters"...as if that makes up the gap.

 

 

A playmaker can make one "play" a game and be enormously effective and valuable. He doesn't at all have to be a 50 reception receiver let alone an 80 reception receiver. He doesn't have to start to be extremely useful or to make defenses adjust to or worry about him. He just needs to get the ball 3-5 times a game to do his magic like he does on punts. The Bills, for no good reason, don't find a way to do that. He's a unique player and unique talent and we try to use him conventionally and sporadically

 

 

I'd rather try to find a roster spot for him than give him away. T.O. signed a 1 year deal only, so having to get rid of a younger WR to "make room" for T.O. doesn't really make a whole lot of sense. Hardy may not be ready this year as a WR and having something other than cut-rate depth at all positions is not something to be laughed off. And we all know that RP is the real deal as a special team player. He adds more to the team than, say, another useless FB/TE hybrid or Hardy on crutches.

 

Amen, guys.

 

 

No, he was far better than average in 2004...unless you think a 16.1 avg yd/reception with 8 TDs in just 43 receptions, is "average".

 

Dean, you've been remarkably quiet on this subject...

 

 

I think he good for a 4 WR set, send him deep.

 

He doesn't have the size to be a consistent deep threat. I mean, Evans isn't big, but Parrish is small. He is better served getting the ball in space on drag routes or screen passes.

[Red]

this news is too old...

[The Dean]

Dean, you've been remarkably quiet on this subject...

 

 

This isn't the first go-round we've had on the topic, around here. I've had my say, and I think my position has been consistent.

 

I think Kelly and Sisyphean are doing a fine job representing my views on the matter.

[extrahammer]

This isn't the first go-round we've had on the topic, around here. I've had my say, and I think my position has been consistent.

 

I think Kelly and Sisyphean are doing a fine job representing my views on the matter.

 

 

You're doing a good job representing my views through Kelly and Sisyphean as well.

[The Dean]

You're doing a good job representing my views through Kelly and Sisyphean as well.

 

 

Well, I think i get what you are saying. Thanks

[Magox]

Well, I think i get what you are saying. Thanks

well, I think you are doing a really bad job explaining my views through Jasper

[The Dean]

well, I think you are doing a really bad job explaining my views through Jasper