VJ91 Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Please answer this question your own way and let's debate. If... 1) They raise the ticket prices up to at least the average price of the rest of the NFL teams. 2) Erie County, New York State and the fans/ tax payers guarantee the Buffalo Bills sell-out revenue every game, regardless of whether the tickets are actually sold or not. 3) Erie County, New York State and the fans/taxpayers offer the Bills a 100% free lease for the next 20 years, and offer them every penny of parking and concessions, while still paying all of the expenses for the stadium and maintaining it. 4) Erie County, New York State and the fans/taxpayers guarantee the Bills sold out luxury seating revenue every season, regardless of whether the luxury seating is sold out or not. Anything less then those conditions, the ownership group that purchases the franchise from the Wilson family would be absolutely crazy to keep struggling here like Wilson has. Other then a Jim Kelly - led group that just plain loves the BUFFALO Bills, I can't imagine this team staying here after Ralph passes away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 I moved to Dallas from Williamsville in 1981. Have stayed loyal all these years, I would hate to see the Bills move away. I have proudly worn my Bills jersey before the super bowls and the day of the Monday night game last year. I tried to take some heat for the homeland - screw the Cowboys. That said, the major thing that will cause them to go is Money, or lack of it in Western, NY. When I come back for a visit I notice things that are quite different to me but may have seemed normal if I had stayed. The thing that stands out the most is Celino & Barnes. They have commercials on all the radio stations, there own little jingle, I have even seen them advertise on the ribbon at Rich (can see from Direct TV). They supposedly had $100M in settlements last year. Think of that as $100M in jobs moving away from the area and all that wealth being transferred to about 30 lwayers and their clients. Yea some of it was legit but I am sure the personal injury laws in NYS are tilted help the clients and lawyers make money. I am sure there are a lot more of these firms out there. By the way the 30 lawyers each cleared $1M on average. The economy is bad all over but why would a company locate in Western, NY? People are great and there is an available work force but NYS is a costly place to do business. Maybe some type of uprising is in order to get WNY set up so companies will move there. I would help you guys if I could.. I like to look at the posts on this board and everybody complaining about Jauron & Wilson. The Cowboys situation is way beyond any disfunction the Bills have ever had: - Wade Phillips as coach - He still does not practice special teams - The entire Bills coaching staff is an upgrade - Jerry Jones - Be very happy with Ralph Wilson. Jerry is in this for ego and money. We have a new stadium here, oh yea the PSL for a good seat is $150,000 each. How many of those would sell in Buffalo? Also you have to buy the tickets after the $150k. When was the last time that Ralph hired all the assistants, checked the waiver wire, had his own radio show...on and on and on..Jerry is insane to a degree. I guess I had to make a first post sometime. Thanks for giving me an avenue for my Bills Fix. lottsa Buffalo people went to Dallas in the 70s and 80s. Smart $$move on your part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Toronto would have no problem supporting an NFL team, just not Buffalo's. Why would you think Toronto would do any better at supporting an NFL team than, say Los Angeles, which has lost 2 franchises? Sure, as Canada's largest city, Toronto has a very large population of affluent people who certainly can afford to support a team, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they would support a team. And, as Dean and Lori point out, all evidence is to the contrary so far. People shunned NFL football in LA because of the nightmarish traffic getting anywhere and because there are too many other distractions in LA, like beaches and string bikinis. NFL football is largely considered an 'American' sport that I don't believe Toronto will embrace - like LA, traffic is hellish and there are too many 'Canadian' distractions, like moose hunting and ice fishing. And curling...don't forget how big curling is up there. But, if it takes another $50 million for 3 add'l games to prove it one way or another, I'd be OK with it because the Bills aren't leaving Buffalo as long as RW can keeping 'milking' Rogers Communications and, now that Ralph has shrewdly made Toronto part of his own home market, any Toronto expansion team or other NFL team relocating there would likely have to compensate Ralph for lost market share. Freakin' Wilson - 'crazy like a fox'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovey1961 Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 My point is, the CFL may well leave Toronto with or without an NFL franchise shoving it out the door, but I don't think the league itself goes anywhere. And I'm not so sure you're correct about the old-men-dying-off comments once you start heading West; the writer I talked to is still in her mid-30s. JMO. is she hot? where her pic? i just hadda do it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebug Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Why would you think Toronto would do any better at supporting an NFL team than, say Los Angeles, which has lost 2 franchises? Sure, as Canada's largest city, Toronto has a very large population of affluent people who certainly can afford to support a team, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they would support a team. And, as Dean and Lori point out, all evidence is to the contrary so far. People shunned NFL football in LA because of the nightmarish traffic getting anywhere and because there are too many other distractions in LA, like beaches and string bikinis. NFL football is largely considered an 'American' sport that I don't believe Toronto will embrace - like LA, traffic is hellish and there are too many 'Canadian' distractions, like moose hunting and ice fishing. And curling...don't forget how big curling is up there. But, if it takes another $50 million for 3 add'l games to prove it one way or another, I'd be OK with it because the Bills aren't leaving Buffalo as long as RW can keeping 'milking' Rogers Communications and, now that Ralph has shrewdly made Toronto part of his own home market, any Toronto expansion team or other NFL team relocating there would likely have to compensate Ralph for lost market share. Freakin' Wilson - 'crazy like a fox'. You can do better than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drinkTHEkoolaid Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 if....the rest of the country is also run by incompetant democrats (like ours) who destroy their own local economies as well bringing them down to our level of economic prosperity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 if....the rest of the country is also run by incompetant democrats (like ours) who destroy their own local economies as well bringing them down to our level of economic prosperity not all parts of the country are run, locally, by incompetent Democrats. Some are run by incompetent Republicans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drinkTHEkoolaid Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 not all parts of the country are run, locally, by incompetent Democrats. Some are run by incompetent Republicans. touche' but i am speaking about locally. there are incompetant politicians everywhere... but the level of incompetance varies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drinkTHEkoolaid Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Dean (and whoever else) I dont mean to ruin this thread and get into discussing politics... if you want start another thread or PM me instead of having this one turn into a train wreck! I dont want to be "that guy"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Dean (and whoever else) I dont mean to ruin this thread and get into discussing politics... if you want start another thread or PM me instead of having this one turn into a train wreck! I dont want to be "that guy"! I imagine we are done with that short side-track. I sure am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davefan66 Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 If... 1) They raise the ticket prices up to at least the average price of the rest of the NFL teams. I wonder if the Bills raised tix prices 25 to 30 bucks each if that would really deter fans. I mean, that would be only $210 bucks extra a year, yielding the Bills something like 2.2 million per game, and 15.4 million per season, of course they would have to split that take with the away teams. Problem is, it really comes down luxury suites, which the home team keeps all the revenue. The Bills are having a difficult time right now keeping up with the Jonses (literally). Imagine what is going to happen in 5 years, then 10 years. Unless the economy in WNY leapfrogs the economic insanity facing the NFL, no way they stay in Buffalo after maybe 5 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillnutinHouston Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 The answer is, successfully regionalize/partner with Toronto. This quote from Erie County Executive Chris Collins says it all. “I’m supportive of anything we need to do to keep the Bills in Western New York,” Collins said Monday, endorsing the team’s strategy to strengthen its appeal in southern Ontario. The key to keeping the Bills in Western New York is making the team more valuable for whomever the owner ends up being,” he said. It's either more games in Toronto, or bye bye Bills. Short of a miraculous economic turnaround in WNY, there is no other quick way of infusing cash into the franchise except via Toronto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glass To The Arson Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 if Ralph puts a good product on the field and if that fails... we hold his family hostage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillnutinHouston Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 That said, the major thing that will cause them to go is Money, or lack of it in Western, NY. When I come back for a visit I notice things that are quite different to me but may have seemed normal if I had stayed. Well said. I am also a WNY expatriot and when I'm able to come back to WNY to visit the place I love, the landscape here is very stark - closed down businesses, boarded up buildings, no traffic, no construction, no activity compared to the southwest. It makes sense that if you live in WNY you don't really realize how far behind WNY has fallen economically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Day 10 Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 I'm going to guess two things about you, if you don't mind: you live in Ontario, and you're 40 or under. I recently talked to a friend who used to write for the Calgary Sun, and she laughed -- hard -- at the idea that the NFL would ever supplant the CFL in popularity out in the Prairies. COTU, now, that's a different question. I have a group of friends (ages 24-35) in the Montreal/Ottawa area. Their views on this are strange. They really like the NFL and follow it. However, they like the CFL more and are 100% against the NFL playing any regular games in Toronto, and 100% against them ever getting a franchise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endzone Animal Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 The answer to the original post: The Bills stay in the region as long as you consider Toronto and Buffalo to be the same market. It won't be long before the team is relocated north IMO, so if you accept the idea that Buffalo is a southern suburb of Toronto you will be thrilled that the Bills are "staying". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Day 10 Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Im not. It has been verified to me now that the plan is to get the Bills up there. We need the game to change quickly. The thing that pisses me off is we get bagged for the lowest ticket prices. The team showed a little promise this year and suddenly all my friends wanted to go. Looking for second hand tickets, the prices were off the charts and tickets were being gobbled up at high prices. The team is terrible for a decade, tickets are priced modestly to the point they can get sellouts. And as much as the NFL portrays the image of a sellout every game in every city, that is not the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PastaJoe Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 I imagine the post-Wilson Bills will be purchased by a group that includes both Rogers Communications and the Jim Kelly group. The Bills will eventually split their schedule and play 4 games in Buffalo and 4 in Toronto. Thus they can say the Bills are still in Buffalo but get the additional revenue from Canada. They'll say it's the best they can do to ensure the long term viability of the Bills staying in the region. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macaroni Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 if Ralph puts a good product on the field and if that fails... we hold his family hostage Quality of product on the field has absolutly nothing to do with it ..... we could win the next 10 super bowls and nothing would change. The Bills sell out, attendance is not an issue ........ PSLs are an issue ....... corporate sky boxes are an issue ...... gov't supported new stadium is an issue ..... all of which the WNY economy can not support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLynchTrain Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Really there is no way the bills will be staying in buffalo for more than 4 years. toronto can handle a football team maybe even two if they wanted... not enough high end luxury boxes at the ralph where people in toronto can spend 3,000 dollars a game on a seat at sky dome... but the one and only way it might be possible to stay is if Golisano buys the team..he is our only hope...Toronto is a fooball players paradise/great hotels/ absolute great nightlife/ and buffalo is no where near that Great night life Just because they are a big city doesnt mean they have a good nightlife. I've been to Toronto many times, and I can't say that its been the best "nightlife environment." On the contrary, I thought it was pretty sterile...and the bars (or the people for that matter) weren't that interesting. And I was pretty happy when Chipper Jones went out of his way to trash the nightlife and boredom of Toronto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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