John Mc Cargo

[iinii]

The DT that i like in this years draft is Ricky Jean-Francois. He might slip to the fourth but probably goes in the third. Kid was defensive MVP of the championship game. Was hurt some this past year. And suspended for grades at one point. If he did not have those two things against him would probably be a second round pick. If Bills dont go DT early and he is on the board in the fourth it sure would beat another HBack/T.E.

two words for you, fili moala!

[atlbillsfan1975]

Not a bad player either. Wouldn't mind either one in the fourth.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

My favorite DT at the moment (aside from Raji of course) is Evander "Ziggy" Hood. I like him quite a bit more than Peria Jerry. Once again though (we always run into this) #11 is too soon for him and he probably won't be around at #42.

 

I do really hope a trade down scenario materializes. This would be a great year for it almost regardless of who people personally want to take.

 

By the way, I have a lot of trouble evaluating the USC guys because they're so loaded on defense. They might have 4 players drafted in the first round on defense alone and so many of their plays seem like the old "we'll meet at the quarterback" type thing. As a result I'm not sure about Moala yet.

[Buffalonian-at-Heart]

If you don't know then you don't know the game; probably a bandwagon fan who judges players by what others say! Whoever is the flavor of the month to bash you scoop it up!

 

 

O.K. coach, if I'm such a bandwagon fan, who critiques players based on what others say, why don't you enlighten us with what you see in McCargo?

 

He has had ample opportunity to showcase his talent when healthy. Did you like what you saw Newt? The rest of the football world laughed at us for trading up in the first round, to get 2nd round projected talent. What did you see Mr. Lombardi? We gaffed drafting him, he has been a major disappointment, we have "egg on our face" because of this pic. But somehow because of your football prowess you are able to evaluate players at a self proclaimed higher level?

 

If you disagree with most fan's lackluster feelings towards McCargo, then your the sheep. I will be your Shepard.

 

What a bogus attempt at trying to make yourself seem like a football scholar. Your soft witted attempt at making yourself sound bright, failed.

[Buffalonian-at-Heart]

But it is the truth! A lot of fans think that every player should be Pro Bowl ready from day one! Some think every player should be PERFECT and walk on water; they basically diss every player on the team; especially the bandwagon type! I thought it was the job of opponent fans to bash the team not our own! I mean I know we have some bad players but every player who is not great is not a bum and some may not be a system or given the opportunity to even STEP on the field to excel!

 

Just because fan's are critical of certain players, doesn't mean that they are less loyal of a fan. Or for that matter wrong. I made a sarcastic response to someone saying McCargo will go to another team and become an all pro, because we don't give players the opportunity to make plays.

 

Well we drafted John in the first round, there's an opportunity. He had to beat out Tim Anderson and Kyle Williams to get in the lineup, there's an opportunity. We brought in other DT's to make him better ie; Larry Tripplet, there's an opportunity.

 

It's time to be critical folks. This guy has had opportunity out of the a$$, and has failed each time. Now we are going to say its because of the relationship with his line coach. Or because of a mysterious back injury that materialized when we tried to trade him. Is McCargo the "not great, treated like a bum" players you speak of? HE HASN'T CONTRIBUTED AT ALL, it's hardly because he just didn't end up being great.

[Mr. WEO]

Different team doctors prioritize different injuries, the bills staff didn't the injury as serious to his playing as the colts did. they didn't deny the injury both teams agreed it was there.

 

I don't remember the Bills mentioning the existence of the problem before or after the voided trade. Obviously the Bills were itching to unload this bust and someone (not Slow Tony Dungy) on the next team that would be laying out for his salary smelled something funky. They went right for the MRI. Busted.

[bluv]

Just because fan's are critical of certain players, doesn't mean that they are less loyal of a fan. Or for that matter wrong. I made a sarcastic response to someone saying McCargo will go to another team and become an all pro, because we don't give players the opportunity to make plays.

 

Well we drafted John in the first round, there's an opportunity. He had to beat out Tim Anderson and Kyle Williams to get in the lineup, there's an opportunity. We brought in other DT's to make him better ie; Larry Tripplet, there's an opportunity.

 

It's time to be critical folks. This guy has had opportunity out of the a$$, and has failed each time. Now we are going to say its because of the relationship with his line coach. Or because of a mysterious back injury that materialized when we tried to trade him. Is McCargo the "not great, treated like a bum" players you speak of? HE HASN'T CONTRIBUTED AT ALL, it's hardly because he just didn't end up being great.

OK Mr smart @$$, maybe you are missing the point! I never said that he would be great but you never know as he hasn't really played much whether it be due to injury or coaches decision. But as someone pointed out (you know the reason why this topic got started in the first place!) is that he did show flashes the year before when given the opportunity to play! How do you that the reason he hasn't played has more to do with politics (his grudge with Koller), injuries, than his actual play? That is why I said that he MAY be a good player on a different team that utilizes his strengths PLUS give him PLAYING TIME! Then you come back with some comment acting like he can never be any good; do you have any inside information or watch any game tape? All i know is that the guy has shown flashes when he is in the game but has hardly played. You say he can't beat out Tripplett, Anderson; maybe they were using him in the wrong way; we don't know? Just like the person who wrote this tread pointed out they wanted to see how he would play next to a true stoud DT like Stroud but it never happened; maybe his back injury had something to do with it; YOU and I don't know! There are those who want to throw Hardy under the bus after one season. Maybe he isn't up to speed with reading the D and finding soft spots in the zone but I'll bet you that better coaching staffs would have found a way to simplify the game for him and put him in better positions to make plays. I know for damn sure they'd have a 6'5 WR in on goaline situations a lot more! I know somebody you will point out all the times he mistimed his jump or dropped balls; he didn't make much of the few opportunities that he had but he should have had a lot more and guess what: players can get better you know!

 

It's fans like you who like to bash players but can't take it in return. Like I said earlier: if you don't think scheme or change of scenery can make a difference in a players performance then you don't know the game. If you didn't notice any of the good plays McCargo made at the end of the 2007 season then you don't know the Bills as good as you think you do.

[Mr. WEO]

OK Mr smart @$$, maybe you are missing the point! I never said that he would be great but you never know as he hasn't really played much whether it be due to injury or coaches decision. But as someone pointed out (you know the reason why this topic got started in the first place!) is that he did show flashes the year before when given the opportunity to play! How do you that the reason he hasn't played has more to do with politics (his grudge with Koller), injuries, than his actual play? That is why I said that he MAY be a good player on a different team that utilizes his strengths PLUS give him PLAYING TIME! Then you come back with some comment acting like he can never be any good; do you have any inside information or watch any game tape? All i know is that the guy has shown flashes when he is in the game but has hardly played. You say he can't beat out Tripplett, Anderson; maybe they were using him in the wrong way; we don't know? Just like the person who wrote this tread pointed out they wanted to see how he would play next to a true stoud DT like Stroud but it never happened; maybe his back injury had something to do with it; YOU and I don't know! There are those who want to throw Hardy under the bus after one season. Maybe he isn't up to speed with reading the D and finding soft spots in the zone but I'll bet you that better coaching staffs would have found a way to simplify the game for him and put him in better positions to make plays. I know for damn sure they'd have a 6'5 WR in on goaline situations a lot more! I know somebody you will point out all the times he mistimed his jump or dropped balls; he didn't make much of the few opportunities that he had but he should have had a lot more and guess what: players can get better you know!

 

It's fans like you who like to bash players but can't take it in return. Like I said earlier: if you don't think scheme or change of scenery can make a difference in a players performance then you don't know the game. If you didn't notice any of the good plays McCargo made at the end of the 2007 season then you don't know the Bills as good as you think you do.

Maybe we aren't using McCargo correctly. Perhaps he can be the guy who holds the ball for kickoffs on really windy days.

 

I would like to throw Hardy under the bus.

[Buffalonian-at-Heart]

OK Mr smart @$$, maybe you are missing the point! I never said that he would be great but you never know as he hasn't really played much whether it be due to injury or coaches decision. But as someone pointed out (you know the reason why this topic got started in the first place!) is that he did show flashes the year before when given the opportunity to play! How do you that the reason he hasn't played has more to do with politics (his grudge with Koller), injuries, than his actual play? That is why I said that he MAY be a good player on a different team that utilizes his strengths PLUS give him PLAYING TIME! Then you come back with some comment acting like he can never be any good; do you have any inside information or watch any game tape? All i know is that the guy has shown flashes when he is in the game but has hardly played. You say he can't beat out Tripplett, Anderson; maybe they were using him in the wrong way; we don't know? Just like the person who wrote this tread pointed out they wanted to see how he would play next to a true stoud DT like Stroud but it never happened; maybe his back injury had something to do with it; YOU and I don't know! There are those who want to throw Hardy under the bus after one season. Maybe he isn't up to speed with reading the D and finding soft spots in the zone but I'll bet you that better coaching staffs would have found a way to simplify the game for him and put him in better positions to make plays. I know for damn sure they'd have a 6'5 WR in on goaline situations a lot more! I know somebody you will point out all the times he mistimed his jump or dropped balls; he didn't make much of the few opportunities that he had but he should have had a lot more and guess what: players can get better you know!

 

It's fans like you who like to bash players but can't take it in return. Like I said earlier: if you don't think scheme or change of scenery can make a difference in a players performance then you don't know the game. If you didn't notice any of the good plays McCargo made at the end of the 2007 season then you don't know the Bills as good as you think you do.

 

Thank you for proving my point. You lost the McCargo argument and had to revert to Hardy and insinuate that I have given up on him. It's beyond me that you can deny that McCargo has underperformed in lieu of playing time. I guess the bottom line is you think he hasn't had opportunity and I do. And of course I think he has squandered opportunity with lack of heart, conditioning, and poor play when given the multiple chances this team has given him to succeed. Don't forget wise guy, that you came at me. I easily discredited your ridiculous reply, and once again you proved your ineptitude to prove a point. You just say, you don't know, and neither do I. Well of course we don't know. But my opinion is that he lacks the true grit and determination to be a 1st round worthy player.

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

McCargo is a total bust. I watch the defensive tackles at the game. He has back problems because he turns his back to the blocker often. He gets very little push, no penetration, is easily handled one on one and is never double teamed. The bill's already tipped their hand trying to trade him, he will not be on next years roster. Stroud on the other hand is a beast, he was constantly doubled and still got push. Williams and Johnson are so-so adequate. I hope B.J. Raji falls to the Bills at #11 although he is shooting up most draft boards and will probably be gone.

Insightful post. Thank you for dropping some knowledge.

[spartacus]

Position coaches tend to hate players when they show up fat, out of shape, lacking motivation, and generally playing beneath their potential. Remember, DJ and Ralph didn't want Kollar to leave, though ultimately the DL coach left for what he thought would be greener pastures. If Kollar's opinion was worthless, no one would have tried to stop him on the way out.

 

BTW, how many actual "plays" did McCargo make in 07? The big one against the Giants that year came when he ignored his gap and happened to go where blockers didn't. He's a bust now, and that won't change. He's on the team because the Bills lack any sense of depth at DT.

 

that did not stop them from cutting Dockery and creating a gaping hole with no replacement in sight

 

keeping him on the team has nothing to do with other available options

[bluv]

Thank you for proving my point. You lost the McCargo argument and had to revert to Hardy and insinuate that I have given up on him. It's beyond me that you can deny that McCargo has underperformed in lieu of playing time. I guess the bottom line is you think he hasn't had opportunity and I do. And of course I think he has squandered opportunity with lack of heart, conditioning, and poor play when given the multiple chances this team has given him to succeed. Don't forget wise guy, that you came at me. I easily discredited your ridiculous reply, and once again you proved your ineptitude to prove a point. You just say, you don't know, and neither do I. Well of course we don't know. But my opinion is that he lacks the true grit and determination to be a 1st round worthy player.

Proved what point? Who said that I had reverted to Hardy? And by god when did I ever say that McCargo hadn't underachieve? If that is the point you are trying to make THEN YOU MISSED THE POINT A LONG TIME AGO! All I said was that he MAY be a good player on a different team that is all. And don't you forget unwise one, you called me out as I made a general statement. The next time you want to have an argument don't lose focus of the topic!

[Buffalonian-at-Heart]

Proved what point? Who said that I had reverted to Hardy? And by god when did I ever say that McCargo hadn't underachieve? If that is the point you are trying to make THEN YOU MISSED THE POINT A LONG TIME AGO! All I said was that he MAY be a good player on a different team that is all. And don't you forget unwise one, you called me out as I made a general statement. The next time you want to have an argument don't lose focus of the topic!

 

Show me where in your opening statement that you said, insinuated, or tried to make the point that you think McCargo may be a good player on another team? Since you keep mentioning that I missed your point a long time ago.

 

"If you don't know then you don't know the game; probably a bandwagon fan who judges players by what others say! Whoever is the flavor of the month to bash you scoop it up!"

 

You went in way over your head with your weak argument to support McCargo on this team or any other, and your slipping man.

 

Maybe you just need a good nights sleep, although I personally don't think that will help you. This is why sheep like you grow hair over your eyes, your just not meant to see. But to be lead.

[bluv]

Show me where in your opening statement that you said, insinuated, or tried to make the point that you think McCargo may be a good player on another team? Since you keep mentioning that I missed your point a long time ago.

Who knows; he may be an All-Pro on another team! This team doesn't know how to adjust and let players play to their strengths.

Like I said stay on topic, get some knowledge of the game, and then come back at me!

[generaLee83]

I read a post about JM being in a trade scenario. I just watched a highlight video of 2007. I forgot how many big plays he made that year. Maybe his back was the issue last year, but just didn't complain about it bothering him. I'd love to see If he could play at that level consistantly during camp and pre-season.

 

I fully expected McCargo to start along with Stroud last year and was very surprised when High Motor Williams got the nod. McCargo had a very quick first step and should have been utilized more by Coach Richard but it's nothing new for Jauron to be horrible at working to his players strengths.

[lets_go_bills]

Yeah, in '07 McCargo flashed a lot of potential. He made a few big plays that stood out. I was excited to see what he would do last year, build on his success and benefit from playing beside Stroud. The setbacks were disappointing, to say the least. Then the trade that got voided because of his back.

 

I never heard much about his beef with Kollar, but hopefully with him gone McCargo can focus on football and get better. I can only imagine how awkward it must have been for him to come back after being traded.

[PushthePile]

Yeah, in '07 McCargo flashed a lot of potential. He made a few big plays that stood out. I was excited to see what he would do last year, build on his success and benefit from playing beside Stroud. The setbacks were disappointing, to say the least. Then the trade that got voided because of his back.

 

I never heard much about his beef with Kollar, but hopefully with him gone McCargo can focus on football and get better. I can only imagine how awkward it must have been for him to come back after being traded.

After being a first round pick in 06 and posting 35 total tackles over the next three seasons, John McCargo could probably write a book about dealing with awkwardness.

[dogbyte]

Since he has not played that well for 2 OL coaches maybe the problem is the player. More is expected of a 1st round pick than a 6th. McCargo did not show enough to get into the game. You can not just keep playing a player if he does play well or do the things he is suppose to do just because he was picked in the first round. Good coaches know this and play the best players no matter where they get picked. Play well and your are in the game.

[LGB]

Since he has not played that well for 2 OL coaches maybe the problem is the player. More is expected of a 1st round pick than a 6th. McCargo did not show enough to get into the game. You can not just keep playing a player if he does play well or do the things he is suppose to do just because he was picked in the first round. Good coaches know this and play the best players no matter where they get picked. Play well and your are in the game.

 

McCargo is as big a bust as Mike Williams and Erick Flowers. He was fined at the beginning of camp last year for being overweight and out of shape. The only quick first step he displayed was at the all-you-can-eat buffet line. It was obvious during camp drills that he was the worst DT and would have easily been cut if he was not picked so high in the draft (and the Bills were hoping to save some face). He might as well have been cut when the Bills tried to savage something from their mistake and tried to trade him. The kid showed little interest or determination and that is why the coaches did not like him. Add to that a long history of injury problems and being a reach in the draft. Look, everyone makes mistakes, but the Bills have probably had more 1st round busts than most other teams, which equals no playoffs going on 10 years. It is what it is.

[BuffaloBill]

Position coaches tend to hate players when they show up fat, out of shape, lacking motivation, and generally playing beneath their potential. Remember, DJ and Ralph didn't want Kollar to leave, though ultimately the DL coach left for what he thought would be greener pastures. If Kollar's opinion was worthless, no one would have tried to stop him on the way out.

 

BTW, how many actual "plays" did McCargo make in 07? The big one against the Giants that year came when he ignored his gap and happened to go where blockers didn't. He's a bust now, and that won't change. He's on the team because the Bills lack any sense of depth at DT.

 

 

Insightful post. The Bills are done with McCargo this year one way or another. Maybe he is trade bait (unlikely) or cut (more likely).