Alphadawg7 Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 So there are strong arguments for both qb's. I will not dispute that Cutler has been the better qb at this point. Because he has. But not by much. But I can say with full confidence that Trent has been the better player when the game is on the line. Evidence in the Chargers, Bills game. Considering Trent has one full season under his belts, and he had less talent surrounding him offensively and a tougher division to play in. He's done pretty well. ANd I'm looking forward to his second full season, with lots more weapons. I know you think I hate Edwards, but I really dont. I like him...I am not sold on him, but I feel he has potential. So, we will just have to wait and see who our QB is this year and rally around who ever it is...most likely Edwards, and if so, I really hope he does step his game up and I will be cheering him the whole way... I too am looking forward to seeing what he can do this year, but if I have a choice of him and Cutler, then I would be more excited to see what Cutler could do with Evans, Owens, Lynch, and Jackson... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 I know you think I hate Edwards, but I really dont. I like him...I am not sold on him, but I feel he has potential. So, we will just have to wait and see who our QB is this year and rally around who ever it is...most likely Edwards, and if so, I really hope he does step his game up and I will be cheering him the whole way... I too am looking forward to seeing what he can do this year, but if I have a choice of him and Cutler, then I would be more excited to see what Cutler could do with Evans, Owens, Lynch, and Jackson... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 No offense Alpha, because other than your view on Edwards, you have some intelligible views on football. but the most ridiculous part of his argument is when he said that they win in spite of him. THen the three games he mentioned, are 3 games that they won because of Trent. THree come from behind victories. 2 of them in real clutch situations. Sure he struggled in parts of those games, but the bottom line is, when they needed him most, he pulled through. And yes he did struggle during certain stretches of the season, but that is to be expected out of any first year qb. If you go back to Cutler's first full year, he had 3 games where he had less than a 50 qb rating. So, it is normal for 1st year qb's to struggle. But all in all, Trent showed that he can win games for us in the clutch. Cutler hasn't shown that ability on a consistant basis, andd when they needed Cutler the most, he didn't deliver. That's the bottom line. Hence, the qb controversy in Denver You won't get far in qb discussions with Alpha. He will tell you how much he likes Edwards, and then go on about how he sucks. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLflutie7 Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 I gotta wonder what the Denver fans are thinking here. A piss poor job by management from the top on down may have cost them one of the best young Qbs in the game. Would anyone in their right mind really rather have Cassel over Cutler??? Really?? Here's what I'm thinking. I'm about to become a former Denver fan. I like nothing that's going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 You won't get far in qb discussions with Alpha. He will tell you how much he likes Edwards, and then go on about how he sucks. Good luck. lmao...um, I do like Edwards potential...but yes, he has sucked on the field... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ax4782 Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 lmao...um, I do like Edwards potential...but yes, he has sucked on the field... Yeah, he sucked so bad statistically last year he was just barely behind Cutler. Oh wait ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Yeah, he sucked so bad statistically last year he was just barely behind Cutler. Oh wait ... wow, barely behind Cutler huh?...geezus...its getting deep in stink in here today... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 I also get frustrated when he is anoited better than QB's who clearly have put more together than him. This thread is about Cutler, right? At least it was before you named Kitna as an all time great. What other qb pray tell might you be referring to? I think that we both know now don't we? At least keepthefaith is up front with his bitterness and despair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 This thread is about Cutler, right? At least it was before you named Kitna as an all time great. What other qb pray tell might you be referring to? I think that we both know now don't we? At least keepthefaith is up front with his bitterness and despair. What are you talking about? Please show me anywhere I said Kitna was an all time great...some one talked about how he passed for 4,000 yards and I pointed out how he is amongst the all time LEADERS in passing yards...thats not an opinnion, that is a factual stat... He is in top 50 all time and would have been likely top 30 if he didnt miss out most of last year... I said nothing of him being an all time great... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 lmao...um, I do like Edwards potential...but yes, he has sucked on the field... Just when I was about to leave this subject to rest, you had to make the comment. LOL Same qb rating, same wins and losses, actually a little better for Edwards, and Edwards a better clutch player. Unless you discount the qb rating system? I am sure you have an excuse to justify Cutler's but not Trent's right? Ok well if Edwards sucked on the field, then so did Cutler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ax4782 Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Just when I was about to leave this subject to rest, you had to make the comment. LOL Same qb rating, same wins and losses, actually a little better for Edwards, and Edwards a better clutch player. Unless you discount the qb rating system? I am sure you have an excuse to justify Cutler's but not Trent's right? Ok well if Edwards sucked on the field, then so did Cutler. As I said, Edwards sucked so bad last year he finished just behind Cutler statistically, and actually improved from his rookie season, whereas Cutler backtracked. But hey, why lets facts get in the way of a good old fashioned argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 As I said, Edwards sucked so bad last year he finished just behind Cutler statistically, and actually improved from his rookie season, whereas Cutler backtracked. But hey, why lets facts get in the way of a good old fashioned argument. Just behind? Beware the single number, the QB rating, specious arguments. In yards, Cutler was 3rd and Edwards 23rd. Completions, Cutler was 3rd and Edwards 22nd. Attempts, Cutler 2nd, Edwards 25th. TDs, Cutler 7th, Edwards 27th. 20+ yd plays, Cutler 2nd, Edwards 18th. Games started, Cutler 16, Edwards 14. http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tab...mp;d-447263-n=1 Cutler was the Denver Broncos last year. He carried that team. The Broncos leading rusher had 68 carries for 343 yards. The defense was a complete mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Just when I was about to leave this subject to rest, you had to make the comment. LOL Same qb rating, same wins and losses, actually a little better for Edwards, and Edwards a better clutch player. Unless you discount the qb rating system? I am sure you have an excuse to justify Cutler's but not Trent's right? Ok well if Edwards sucked on the field, then so did Cutler. Absolutely, I DO discount a QB rating system that ranks Rob Johnson (85.5 in Buffalo) ahead of Jim Kelly (84.4) on the franchise career leaderboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drinkTHEkoolaid Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Just behind? Beware the single number, the QB rating, specious arguments. In yards, Cutler was 3rd and Edwards 23rd. Completions, Cutler was 3rd and Edwards 22nd. Attempts, Cutler 2nd, Edwards 25th. TDs, Cutler 7th, Edwards 27th. 20+ yd plays, Cutler 2nd, Edwards 18th. Games started, Cutler 16, Edwards 14. http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tab...mp;d-447263-n=1 Cutler was the Denver Broncos last year. He carried that team. The Broncos leading rusher had 68 carries for 343 yards. The defense was a complete mess. I think cutler is the real deal, but i honestly wouldnt feel great about trading edwards, i want him to make it as a bills QB, he carries himself well and i think he has a ton of potential cant argue with that... stats dont lie.... but they can be manipulated muahahaha :evil cackle: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Absolutely, I DO discount a QB rating system that ranks Rob Johnson (85.5 in Buffalo) ahead of Jim Kelly (84.4) on the franchise career leaderboard. There is no doubt, that it is not a single, absolute indicative way of determining who a better qb is. But it definitely is a gauge in which you can compare qb's. agreed? I would imagine the other measures that we have to gauge a successful qb is, wins and losses, come from behind victories, playoff appearances and playoff wins and losses. *edit* I was looking back at the top 10 qb ratings. As I said, it is not a perfect science, but considering wins and losses, and what these players meant to their teams in value, I think this is a pretty accurate way of determining the value they represented towards their teams success 1. Philip Rivers, 105.5 2. Chad Pennington, 97.4 3. Kurt Warner, 96.9 4. Drew Brees, 96.2 5. Peyton Manning, 95.0 6. Aaron Rodgers, 93.8 7. Matt Schaub, 92.7 8. Tony Romo, 91.4 9. Jeff Garcia, 90.2 10. Matt Cassel, 89.4 16. Jay Cutler, 86.0 17. Trent Edwards, 85.4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Just behind? Beware the single number, the QB rating, specious arguments. In yards, Cutler was 3rd and Edwards 23rd. Completions, Cutler was 3rd and Edwards 22nd. Attempts, Cutler 2nd, Edwards 25th. TDs, Cutler 7th, Edwards 27th. 20+ yd plays, Cutler 2nd, Edwards 18th. Games started, Cutler 16, Edwards 14. http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tab...mp;d-447263-n=1 Cutler was the Denver Broncos last year. He carried that team. The Broncos leading rusher had 68 carries for 343 yards. The defense was a complete mess. Yup. How could anyone on this board not believe that Cutler would be a big upgrade for the Bills? Probably not worth the debate. The Buffalo front office would never make this deal, and given the number of needs the Bills have, it might be wise to invest elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Absolutely, I DO discount a QB rating system that ranks Rob Johnson (85.5 in Buffalo) ahead of Jim Kelly (84.4) on the franchise career leaderboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 There is no doubt, that it is not a single, absolute indicative way of determining who a better qb is. But it definitely is a gauge in which you can compare qb's. agreed? I would imagine the other measures that we have to gauge a successful qb is, wins and losses, come from behind victories, playoff appearances and playoff wins and losses. *edit* I was looking back at the top 10 qb ratings. As I said, it is not a perfect science, but considering wins and losses, and what these players meant to their teams in value, I think this is a pretty accurate way of determining the value they represented towards their teams success 1. Philip Rivers, 105.5 2. Chad Pennington, 97.4 3. Kurt Warner, 96.9 4. Drew Brees, 96.2 5. Peyton Manning, 95.0 6. Aaron Rodgers, 93.8 7. Matt Schaub, 92.7 8. Tony Romo, 91.4 9. Jeff Garcia, 90.2 10. Matt Cassel, 89.4 16. Jay Cutler, 86.0 17. Trent Edwards, 85.4 FYI: Only Rivers, Pennington, Warner and Manning made the playoffs on that list...the other 8 were at home in the playoffs...so maybe its not so indicative of team success as has been implied in this thread... And if none of them made the playoffs, does that mean Edwards is better than them too because the popular argument is that Cutler didnt take the Broncos to the playoffs... Or maybe, just maybe, the absurd argument about team record is a very poor indication of a QB's quality of play... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in Chicago Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 The Buffalo front office would never make this deal, and given the number of needs the Bills have, it might be wise to invest elsewhere. You mean they are busy with making all the deals to fix the holes and using our large cap in signing premier players ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 FYI: Only Rivers, Pennington, Warner and Manning made the playoffs on that list...the other 8 were at home in the playoffs...so maybe its not so indicative of team success as has been implied in this thread... And if none of them made the playoffs, does that mean Edwards is better than them too because the popular argument is that Cutler didnt take the Broncos to the playoffs... Or maybe, just maybe, the absurd argument about team record is a very poor indication of a QB's quality of play... Thats not what I said Alpha. What I said was, it is not a perfect science, you have to consider qb rating and wins and losses, and clutch performance, this is the best way in my view how to evaluate a players value to his team. I think looking at the qb rating is one of the better and more accurate gauge's to look. If you look at that the top 10, and let me say again, it is not a perfect science, it pretty much does show who the best qb's were last year and the importance that they played for their team. Btw, those four that you mentioned were 4 of the top 5 and the other in BRees had an MVP year. The other 6 of the top ten, you had Cassel, Romo and Rodgers who all had good statistical years. Schaub played for a bad team and still helped manage to help them win games. So in reality, The qb's I listed in the top 10 all helped support my argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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