billsfreak Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 Facts state? No, opinions do. Lies, damn lies and pseudo-statistics. Sacks allowed is a stat that is mostly meaningless, because unless you know the entire playbook of every team how do you assign fault. If two pass rushers both come from the left side and Peters only blocks one and the QB gets sacked does he still get blamed? Unless you know the pass blocking responsibilities as assigned in the Bills playbook how can you judge, most of the time? And even then when is it the LT's fault and when is it the QB's for holding on to the ball too long? Whilst watching one game and in the chat room here I was able to see first hand how fans have no idea what they are talking about a lot of the time. A sack occured, the LT was at fault and Peters was proclaimed to be totally arse. Mind you, the fact he was off the field at that time receiving treatment illustrated just how observant fans can be sometimes. Yes - Peters made some pretty noticeable mistakes, especially early in the season. But later on, once back in his groove, he played very well indeed. He made the pro bowl based on the fasct for most of the season last year for most of the plays he owned whoever he was assigned to block. Not merely got in their way, but physically dominated. Coaches and other players saw this (and DEs experienced it) and he made the Pro bowl. He had talent. And for most of the last season he played to that talent. So much so the Bills are in talks with his agent, looking to give him a major pay rise. Sacks don't mean anything? Tell JP and Trent that, he was getting them killed all year. If he improved so much later in the year, explain the Jets game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 You are clearly living in 2007 because everything he's done before that and since then says otherwise...he had only 1 year worthy of that praise, and it wasnt his most recent... YOU are clearly living with spectacularly unreal expectations and not very accurate perceptions. Probably influenced by ridiculous hatred due to his holdout - don't know that particularly about you, but it's the only real reason for somebody to hate a guy who is probably our single best player. First your unreal expectations. Unlike some other positions, o-linemen require continuity and unspoken communication more than any area on the team. Expecting an o-lineman to come in without any training camp and play even close to his capabilities is ridiculous. Now your inaccuate perceptions. By the the halfway point of his season, Peters was again playing at an extremely high level. Give the guy a training camp and he will once again be in the top two LTs in the league. His ability to play on an island, allowing the Bills to not have to shift their line left to help him - nearly every team in the league shifts left to help their LT protect against the other team's best rusher without the help of a TE - gives a huge advantage that maybe two or three teams have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 Peters WILL hold out. Do you really think he is going to show up for offseason conditioning without a new contract? NO WAY!!! He wants a huge contract. The dude is all about the money. He could care less that he held out all offseason and messed up our entire O line. The Bills will make what they think is a fair offer to Peters. If Peters' demands are ridiculous and it looks like there is no middle ground. I believe we will certainly try and trade him for the best deal we can before the draft. That makes the most sense. For you people on here who think Peters is comparable to Anthony Munoz and Tony Boselli in their primes, please tell me what I am missing. To me Jason Peters plays lazy and uninterested a lot of the time with poor focus causing him to false start quite a bit. Sure when motivated he can manhandle people, but his first step back on pass protection is not fast, as shown by how many guys went around him for sacks last season. Nice try, but Peters has already said he won't hold out again this year. And EVERYBODY is about the money. Don't kid yourself. If you could leave your company and get three times your current salary, you would do it in a second. You're lying to yourself if you think you wouldn't. If you want to see what you're missing, look at the post above. Also google and find Ross Tucker's article ranking the difficulty of each line position. He mentions how almost everybody in the league is forced to shift their line left out of ideal position in order to support their LT, and how much added value the extremely few LTs who don't require that support bring to their team. Peters is one of those two or three guys. He doesn't get beaten on speed rushes. His first step isn't just good, it is elite. FOR THE HATERS, expect to have to deal with Peters in Buffalo for the next 10 - 15 years, making the Bills a much better team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armchair GM Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 wow, this thread has really made it 11 pages... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cantankerous Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 Nice try, but Peters has already said he won't hold out again this year. And EVERYBODY is about the money. Don't kid yourself. If you could leave your company and get three times your current salary, you would do it in a second. You're lying to yourself if you think you wouldn't. If you want to see what you're missing, look at the post above. Also google and find Ross Tucker's article ranking the difficulty of each line position. He mentions how almost everybody in the league is forced to shift their line left out of ideal position in order to support their LT, and how much added value the extremely few LTs who don't require that support bring to their team. Peters is one of those two or three guys. He doesn't get beaten on speed rushes. His first step isn't just good, it is elite. FOR THE HATERS, expect to have to deal with Peters in Buffalo for the next 10 - 15 years, making the Bills a much better team. And when did he say this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 And when did he say this? Yeah Thurman....not dissing you but I would like to know where you heard that as well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny_OH Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 as for the whole trade Peters Idea is ridiculos. If you haters would watch the video when he was blamed for sacks it was doughboy Dockery that was getting turned around and pushed back not Jason Peters. Get this deal done and move on what is the hold up. If it is the guaranteed money give it too him. He si the corner piece to our franchise/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 For the record, I will say again, "sacks allowed" is NOT an official statistic. It isn't recorded by the NFL, the Elias Sports Bureau, the Dallas Morning News, or any other football statistical authority. There is no "fact" that supports the notion that Peters "gave up the most sacks in the NFL", so for those using it as a barometer, the argument is factually-flawed. Also, in keeping with the questionable authenticity of the "sacks allowed" statistic, I'll remind everyone that--in the previous season--a Pro Bowl left tackle (David Diehl of the Giants) "gave up" the most sacks in the league. The Giants followed that season up by giving him a 4-year, $33M extension. Last time I checked, they'd be considered a successful organization. Just facts folks, take them how you please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Britbillsfan Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 Sacks don't mean anything? Tell JP and Trent that, he was getting them killed all year. If he improved so much later in the year, explain the Jets game? Sacks allowed is a meaningless stat for reasons stated. Sacks do mean something. These are not mutually exclusive statements. (And JP would probably find a way to be sacked behind an All-Pro line blocking our DL of last year). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucks Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 I believe if we cant get a deal done with Pters by draft day we should definitely trade him. There is rumors floating around that Philly is interested. I believe we can get their 1st rd pick (21st) and a 4th rd pick. We could take a tackle at 11 and take Pettigrew at 21. Pettigrew should be there. What do u think?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flbillsfan#1 Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 I believe if we cant get a deal done with Pters by draft day we should definitely trade him. There is rumors floating around that Philly is interested. I believe we can get their 1st rd pick (21st) and a 4th rd pick. We could take a tackle at 11 and take Pettigrew at 21. Pettigrew should be there. What do u think?? I think the Bills should get a deal done with Peters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heitz Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 Welcome to Tuesday, bro. http://www.stadiumwall.com/index.php?showtopic=84900 Don't be afraid to the try the search... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock'em Sock'em Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 in the previous season--a Pro Bowl left tackle (David Diehl of the Giants) "gave up" the most sacks in the league. The Giants followed that season up by giving him a 4-year, $33M extension. Last time I checked, they'd be considered a successful organization. Just facts folks, take them how you please. And I think the Bills would be all over that kind of contract extension. No doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingon Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 I believe if we cant get a deal done with Pters by draft day we should definitely trade him. There is rumors floating around that Philly is interested. I believe we can get their 1st rd pick (21st) and a 4th rd pick. We could take a tackle at 11 and take Pettigrew at 21. Pettigrew should be there. What do u think?? Hell no.. Roy Williams got traded for a 1st, 3rd, and a 6th. We can get WAY more for Peters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 For the record, I will say again, "sacks allowed" is NOT an official statistic. It isn't recorded by the NFL, the Elias Sports Bureau, the Dallas Morning News, or any other football statistical authority. There is no "fact" that supports the notion that Peters "gave up the most sacks in the NFL", so for those using it as a barometer, the argument is factually-flawed. Also, in keeping with the questionable authenticity of the "sacks allowed" statistic, I'll remind everyone that--in the previous season--a Pro Bowl left tackle (David Diehl of the Giants) "gave up" the most sacks in the league. The Giants followed that season up by giving him a 4-year, $33M extension. Last time I checked, they'd be considered a successful organization. Just facts folks, take them how you please. Great post. In the end I think the Bills will sign Peters. Too bad it is being played ou the way that it is. Another thing that people do not think about with regards to Peters is that the Bills have had him on the cheap for two seasons now. Whatever contract he signs needs to be looked at over the time span he has played LT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nodnarb Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 I would be so friggin pissed if we traded him for a draft pick. Just imagine, we trade a proven product for 1st round unknown tackle. I don't like this Peters was a below average tackle for us last year. So I'm not sure what's motivating all this "no way" bluster. Peters had one really good year, and TONS OF HYPE. He's not worth top 2 LT money. Give me a break. I'd rather get 2 or 3 1st day picks, or a pick and a player, and then sign Orlando Pace. Do you REALLY think Pace would be a downgrade? Peters thinks too highly of himself, period. His demands are outrageous, as was his behavior last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenwick Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 what number picks do they have The Eagles have the 21st pick....in the first round The 28th pick in the first round The 53rd pick in the 2nd round The 85th pick in the third round they also have 3 fifth round picks....... If they acquire Jason Peters.....what they would be getting is a LT, 27 years old, a two time pro bowler in his prime... Getting him for Philly would be Priceless for them........at any costs.... Dealing with the Bills is even better....... They most likely will give him up for nothing because they do not want to compromise with Peters... even though he is still under contract for two more years...... They will give Philly a good deal on draft day if Philly still wants Peters ......remember we are the drudge of the league and we did not get there having a solid front office .......... I hate the idea of trading a quality OLT like Peters..... for god sakes make a Deal Brandon... get it over with..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anzaloha Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 I'd never blame Losman for being Losman, instead, I blame Dick for being a Dick. You must really like Dicks...You talk about them alot and yoru own logo has one in a mans mouth. Try the Gay porn Discussion boards! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 For all of you saying he's worth only one first round picks plus maybe a 3 or 4, he's worth at least their two first round picks. If you stop and think about it, he IS what people hope Top 10 picks become--a Pro Bowl left tackle who is, despite what some folks here may think, at least one of the 3-4 best LT's in the League and is only 27 years old. All that means he's worth at least the 21 and 28 pick in this year's draft--Peters has proven that he is (or can be) an elite LT, unlike those Top 10 picks who teams HOPE can become top LTs (see, Mike Williams, D'Brick, etc., which is what you have at least an equal chance of getting with those high draft picks). If the Eagles offer that up and we can't close the gap with Peters, we need to think about it. Ideally, they'd be able to do something like sign Pace to a reasonable (i.e., $6-7 million per year) 2-3 year deal (which to the Bills accounting shouldn't break the bank, as I'm sure they planned to pay Peters at least $8m this season) and then use our 1st rounders on DE (11), TE (Pettigrew) and possibly LB or DT, although I suspect that we'll sign Crowell, Keiaho or June shortly to fill that hole. We still need a LG as well, but you should be able to get a starting quality LG is Rd 2. The other benefit to a team like the Bills of having three first rounders is that you can sign first rounder up to 6 years on their rookies deals (other rounds are 4 year deals only, another gift to the large market teams in the last CBA--just makes it that much easier to cherry pick talent elsewhere), which is something the Bills really need to do and hope they hit on good players in this year's deep draft..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WellDressed Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 Wanted to add this to the discussion, I posted it in another thread: Do you think the Iggles didn't do their homework?? Do you think they aren't aware of this situation. Don't you remember--They DISHED US Darwin Walker when they couldn't work out a deal with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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