Jim in Anchorage Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 That's true. The posts where the wipers are mounted are always prone to early icing and since the Pilot's can't see the wings, without going back into the cabin and looking out a window, the wiper post is a very useful visual indicator of ice accumulation. Even if Anti-ice was on, and I have to believe that it was, it won't provide unlimited protection. That's why you never fly into "known" icing conditions for any length of time. American lost an ATR (high wing Turbo Prop.) in Indiana, that was put into a holding pattern in icing conditions. After that accident American shifted all the ATR's down South to limit their potential exposure to serious icing conditions. Despite that crash, no rules were ever adopted to keep aircraft out of icing conditions. FedEx just lost an ATR last week in Lubbock Texas, that could have been caused by ice. The FAA and more recently the NTSB are becomming so politicized that even when the final cause is known, the chances of preventive rules being enacted are going to be very slim. Any competent pilot should be able to detect severe icing without looking at the wing. Or out the window,for that matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marv's Neighbor Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 Any competent pilot should be able to detect severe icing without looking at the wing. Or out the window,for that matter. It totally depends on their training, experience and Company Ops Procedures. The NTSB files are full of dead "competent pilots." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim in Anchorage Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 It totally depends on their training, experience and Company Ops Procedures. The NTSB files are full of dead "competent pilots." I am not a commercial pilot, but I am a pilot. I am just guessing of course but my thought is they were relying on the auto pilot. Unlike manual control,they did not notice more power and elevator was required to maintain a given altitude and speed,sure give aways of icing. Just a guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 Is there a list of the passengers yet? I don't see the partial list on the News site anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 I am not a commercial pilot, but I am a pilot. I am just guessing of course but my thought is they were relying on the auto pilot. Unlike manual control,they did not notice more power and elevator was required to maintain a given altitude and speed,sure give aways of icing. Just a guess. Could be and the margin for error at approach speed is far less. Might be just a bad combination of timing and circumstances. Tragic any way you look at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills44 Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 Is there a list of the passengers yet? I don't see the partial list on the News site anymore. still no complete list. Here's the partial list: http://www.buffalonews.com/home/story/578574.html?imw=Y Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 still no complete list. Here's the partial list: http://www.buffalonews.com/home/story/578574.html?imw=Y 4 in one family. horrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steely Dan Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 Two who missed the flight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 Two who missed the flight. Hopefully survivors guilt doesn't strike those two too badly. Mariano Rivera missed a doomed flight to Panama in 2001 and he says that he still thinks about it every day of his life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steely Dan Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 Hopefully survivors guilt doesn't strike those two too badly. Mariano Rivera missed a doomed flight to Panama in 2001 and he says that he still thinks about it every day of his life. Family Guy creator Seth McFarlane missed the flight that hit the North Tower. How he missed it is really freaky. On the morning of the September 11, 2001 attacks, MacFarlane was scheduled to return to Los Angeles on American Airlines Flight 11 from Boston, Massachusetts, after delivering a keynote speech at his alma mater. MacFarlane has stated his travel agent gave him an incorrect departure time (8:15 a.m. instead of 7:45 a.m.) and that he was suffering from a hangover from the previous night’s celebrations. As a result, he arrived at Logan International Airport sometime around 7:30 and was unable to board the flight. Fifteen minutes after departure, American Airlines Flight 11 was hijacked, and at 8:46 a.m. was flown into the North Tower of the World Trade Center in New York City, with no survivors Man, you have to think God is a "Family Guy" fan. I wonder what McFarlane thinks about that. I'd bet he was really pissed at his travel agent until he heard about the hijacking and crash. The whole thing must really freak him out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indy Dave Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 Lorin Maurer was one of our interns a few years ago...a bright young woman with a warm personality and destined for success. She was working for Princeton University and on her way to Buffalo to meet her boyfriend, who is an assistant men's basketball coach at Butler. His brother lives in Buffalo and got married yesterday. Lorin was to meet her boyfriend's parents for the first time this weekend. Instead...this. A terrible tragedy for all involved, made worse because of the personal ties to one of the victims. RIP Lorin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Wheels Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 It seems that every day brings another sorrowful story about a victim, their family, and their friends. My heart goes out to them as well as the emergency personnel who have witnessed horrors none of us should ever see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davefan66 Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 I live 2 miles as the crow flies from the crash site. By the grace of God I didn't know anyone who was on the flight. Due to my proximity to the crash, I feel a huge loss, more than any other event except maybe 9/11. God bless those who perished and my thoughts and prayers go out to the family and friends of those who perished. I am not a deeply religious person, but offer this that I found: Lord Jesus, you are the master of life and death. You said, “I am the resurrection and the life,” and this morning we believe this with all our hearts. And, Lord, you know far more than we do what death is all about. So we come to you in our pain and in our sadness. Draw near, O Lord, for we desperately need your help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steely Dan Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 It's stunning that only one house was destroyed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 I live 2 miles as the crow flies from the crash site. By the grace of GodI didn't know anyone who was on the flight. Due to my proximity to the crash, I feel a huge loss, more than any other event except maybe 9/11. God bless those who perished and my thoughts and prayers go out to the family and friends of those who perished. I am not a deeply religious person, but offer this that I found: Lord Jesus, you are the master of life and death. You said, “I am the resurrection and the life,” and this morning we believe this with all our hearts. And, Lord, you know far more than we do what death is all about. So we come to you in our pain and in our sadness. Draw near, O Lord, for we desperately need your help. AMEN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in San Diego Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 It's stunning that only one house was destroyed. Because the plane fell straight down from the sky, not on a horizontal angle. I've seen the footage of these boots, the concept seems feeble at best, why can't they just heat the wing to keep it above freezing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Because the plane fell straight down from the sky, not on a horizontal angle. I've seen the footage of these boots, the concept seems feeble at best, why can't they just heat the wing to keep it above freezing? Agree. Jets have heated wings. Can't imagine why these smaller planes don't. Cost cutting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Heart felt prayers to all the victims and their families. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steely Dan Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Because the plane fell straight down from the sky, not on a horizontal angle. I've seen the footage of these boots, the concept seems feeble at best, why can't they just heat the wing to keep it above freezing? I meant in the larger scheme of things. How often do you hear about a residential plane crash only hitting one house. I never have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 I meant in the larger scheme of things. How often do you hear about a residential plane crash only hitting one house. I never have. The circumstances just seem unusual to me. I'm not an expert but I don't recall any crash described quite like this before where 1 second everything's fine and they're communicating with the tower on landing instructions, and the next second the plane goes into a violent pitch and roll pattern. And within 26 seconds it's on the ground and hits only one house. I can't believe this is the 1st time a plane flying into Buffalo experienced ice conditions of this degree. I think either: a) the de-icer wasn't working and they didn't realize it so when they started lowering the landing gear or making some other change in preparation for landing, it interfered with the proper functioning; or b) the problem was with the auto-pilot system itself (which was reported to have been on) and may have had little or nothing to do with the weather. Perhaps it was an electrical/computer fail of the autopilot system that sent bad commands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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