Jeff Garcia

[Gordio]

Met garcia at a bar in santa monica when he was still a 49ner. This guy is gay I'm not joking he is a homosexual...you know it the minute you start talking to him....the girls I was with didn't know who he was and knew he was gay...don't want him in a bills uni

 

I thought he was married to a super model? & what is the difference if he is gay or not. I am so sick of losing if he could win us some games I would not care if he dressed in a pink Tuttu & did swan lake across the ralph field turf before the games.

[Arkady Renko]

According to who? I posted percentages that are cited by our government. Where is your documentation? Or do you mean they don't necessarily line up?

I meant that there may not be the same percentage of gay players as there are gay Americans. I do not think there needs to be any documentation to make that point.

[The Tomcat]

Met garcia at a bar in santa monica when he was still a 49ner. This guy is gay I'm not joking he is a homosexual...you know it the minute you start talking to him....the girls I was with didn't know who he was and knew he was gay...don't want him in a bills uni

 

Because he's gay??? SO WHAT!! He can turn a tight end into a wide receiver.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

I meant that there may not be the same percentage of gay players as there are gay Americans. I do not think there needs to be any documentation to make that point.

Yes except you stated it as a fact, not an educated guess. That's why I wrote exactly what I wrote. Then I let you off the hook by suggesting that you were only stating an opinion.

 

If you hadn't stated it as fact I wouldn't have asked for documentation.

[cale]

I thought he was married to a super model? & what is the difference if he is gay or not. I am so sick of losing if he could win us some games I would not care if he dressed in a pink Tuttu & did swan lake across the ralph field turf before the games.

 

Now...*that* was the post of the day...

 

Our decidely masculine QBs aren't helping us win...Hell, I'm for a female QB with balls and gumption coming in here and embarrassing these bunch of overpaid *&%^$# into overperforming in their respective roles. I don't care. I just want them to play with some fire. If it's flaming, so be it...

 

C

[Ramius]

The main difference between garcia and flutie is that garcia is good.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

The main difference between garcia and flutie is that garcia is good.

Couldn't disagree more Ramius. I'm not being a jerk when I ask you, do you have adult memories of 1998 and 1999? It seems like very few people who post here do.

 

In '98 we got off to a 1-3 start with Rob Johnson. The Bills were trying to sell enough luxury seating to trigger a lease clause which would keep the Bills in Buffalo for 10 more years. "Buffalo Backs the Bills" and local banker Erkie Kailbourne were put in charge of selling these club seats/suites to the business community. Sales on the luxury seating was lagging badly. At the time it looked like the sky was falling.

 

Flutie came in for an injured Johnson and after Johnson's 1-3 start led us to a 10-6 record. The Flutie buzz was huge and the luxury seats suddenly sold like hotcakes. The Bills made the playoffs and it's not a reach to say that Flutie rescued the franchise in Buffalo. If we hadn't sold out the luxury seats the lease would have aborted early and it's likely that the team would have been moved by now.

 

In '99 Flutie led us to an 11-5 record and another playoff berth. We lost that year in the "Music City Miracle" and have not been to the playoffs since. Flutie was 21-10 during his Bills career. He made the Pro Bowl in '98 and was also Comeback Player of the Year. Rob Johnson during his time with the Bills set the all time record for most sacks per passing attempt (with the same team that Flutie excelled with).

 

It's amazing to me:

 

1) How many people don't know/remember/want to admit that Flutie saved the franchise in Buffalo.

2) Don't give him credit for being a very good player. Some people are so conventional in their view of quarterbacking that they'd rather have someone like Kyle Boller or Rob Johnson (conventional tall, strong arm etc) than a guy like Flutie.

3) How many people seem to have been influenced by the low-brow, moron, negativity-monger, former coach Chuck Dickerson who slandered Flutie on an almost daily basis and seems to have been successful in revising Flutie's legacy in Buffalo by pandering to young, uninformed fans who have no historical context for what really was happening at the time.

 

I'm not attacking you Ramius but I don't see how anyone who was a knowledgeable football fan at the time (1998-99) would not view Flutie as a good quarterback. He never got a fair shake in his career (Ditka called him "America's Favorite Midget") because of prejudice that he was only 5'9" tall. He was 36 years old by the time he finally got a fair chance in the NFL in 1998.

[Ramius]

Couldn't disagree more Ramius. I'm not being a jerk when I ask you, do you have adult memories of 1998 and 1999? It seems like very few people who post here do.

 

In '98 we got off to a 1-3 start with Rob Johnson. The Bills were trying to sell enough luxury seating to trigger a lease clause which would keep the Bills in Buffalo for 10 more years. "Buffalo Backs the Bills" and local banker Erkie Kailbourne were put in charge of selling these club seats/suites to the business community. Sales on the luxury seating was lagging badly. At the time it looked like the sky was falling.

 

Flutie came in for an injured Johnson and after that 1-3 start led them to a 10-6 record. The Flutie buzz was huge and the luxury seats suddenly sold like hotcakes. The Bills made the playoffs and it's not a reach to say that Flutie rescued the franchise in Buffalo. If we hadn't sold out the luxury seats the lease would have aborted early and it's likely that the team would have been moved by now.

 

In '99 Flutie led us to an 11-5 record and another playoff berth. We lost that year in the "Music City Miracle" and have not been to the playoffs since. Flutie was 21-10 during his Bills career. He made the Pro Bowl in '98 and was also Comeback Player of the Year. Rob Johnson during his time with the Bills set the all time record for most sacks per passing attempt (with the same team that Flutie excelled with).

 

It's amazing to me"

 

1) How many people don't know/remember/want to admit that Flutie saved the franchise in Buffalo.

2) Don't give him credit for being a very good player. Some people are so conventional in their view of quarterbacking that they'd rather have someone like Kyle Boller or Rob Johnson (conventional tall, strong arm etc) than a guy like Flutie.

3) How many people seem to have been influenced by the low-brow, moron, negativity-monger, former coach Chuck Dickerson who slandered Flutie on an almost daily basis and seems to have been successful in revising Flutie's legacy in Buffalo by pandering to young, uninformed fans who have no historical context for what really was happening at the time.

 

You want an honest assessment of what i saw with little dougie? In 1998, Flutie was very good. He was a shot in the arm the franchise needed, and yes, he had a lot to do with selling the boxes at the Ralph. Of course, Flutie fumbled away our chances at victory against miami in the wildcard. Yes, there were other plays during that game (the moulds fumble, reed getting tossed) that affected the outcome, but flutie mistake was the game ender.

 

As for 1999, Flutie didn't "lead the team to the playoffs" Flutie rode the backs of an amazing defense. The offense could barely get out of its own way during that regular season. 55% completion with 19 TD and a 16 INTs isn't "leading" a team anywhere. Flutie played just good enough to win some games the defense kept us in. But dont make it sound like Flutie was the savior. As for the playoff game, Flutie should have started, because he was our starting QB in 1999. What ralph did for the playoff game was BS.

 

But the '99 season was the epitome of little dougie. Once teams got some game film on him, he was extremely easy to stop. He simply wasn't a very good QB. Then, you toss in the fact that the guy is an egomanical self-centered prick, and its no wonder why legions of people don't like him. He actively divided the locker room in buffalo. His schtick of "I won the game, but we lost it" got old in a hurry.

 

Don't start with the "21-10" record either. Records for QBs are bogus, which is why no one outside of TBD cares about them. That was more a function of our spectacular defense during dougie's time here other than anything. Flutie was not this magic little QB wo never got a fair shot. He got his shots, and wasn't very good. Little dougie was a mediocre QB who had 1 good season.

[Arkady Renko]

Yes except you stated it as a fact, not an educated guess. That's why I wrote exactly what I wrote. Then I let you off the hook by suggesting that you were only stating an opinion.

 

If you hadn't stated it as fact I wouldn't have asked for documentation.

 

Actually you misread or misunderstood what I wrote. I am not really sure why you are trying to pick a fight about your misunderstanding.

[NewEra]

People hated RJ because he was terrible. Trent's young and is the future for us. He's still getting HURT.

 

 

FIXED.

 

I like Trent and I hope he can stay healthy.

 

I liked JP, I hoped he would learn to read a defense.

I liked RJ, I hoped he would learn to read and defense and stay healthy

I liked Flutie, I hoped he would grow 5 inches.

I liked Jim Kelly, I hoped we would have found his successor by now....

[Beerball]

But the '99 season was the epitome of little dougie. Once teams got some game film on him, he was extremely easy to stop. He simply wasn't a very good QB. Then, you toss in the fact that the guy is an egomanical self-centered prick, and its no wonder why legions of people don't like him. He actively divided the locker room in buffalo. His schtick of "I won the game, but we lost it" got old in a hurry.

I think he also wore down as the season went on (arm & legs).

 

Flame away, but as BS a move as it might have been to turn the reins over to Johnson we stood no chance with Flutie. He had taken the team as far as he was able. With Johnson you didn't know at the time.

 

Garcia > Flutie (IMO)

[San Jose Bills Fan]

While you may be right about there being many closeted players, the percentages do not need to line up with those of the general public.

Sorry IDK, I wasn't trying to pick a fight. I actually did not see the words (highlighted above) the first time I read your post. "Need to" changes the whole meaning. Sorry dude.

[The Dean]

The main difference between garcia and flutie is that garcia is good.

 

On NFL live, today, someone (I think Marcellus Wiley) referred to the Garcia situation as, Flutie 2.0.

 

That made some sense to me...I might say Flutie 3.0.

 

A lot like Flutie 1.0, but newer and faster/better/more reliable.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

You want an honest assessment of what i saw with little dougie? In 1998, Flutie was very good. He was a shot in the arm the franchise needed, and yes, he had a lot to do with selling the boxes at the Ralph. Of course, Flutie fumbled away our chances at victory against miami in the wildcard. Yes, there were other plays during that game (the moulds fumble, reed getting tossed) that affected the outcome, but flutie mistake was the game ender.

 

As for 1999, Flutie didn't "lead the team to the playoffs" Flutie rode the backs of an amazing defense. The offense could barely get out of its own way during that regular season. 55% completion with 19 TD and a 16 INTs isn't "leading" a team anywhere. Flutie played just good enough to win some games the defense kept us in. But dont make it sound like Flutie was the savior. As for the playoff game, Flutie should have started, because he was our starting QB in 1999. What ralph did for the playoff game was BS.

 

But the '99 season was the epitome of little dougie. Once teams got some game film on him, he was extremely easy to stop. He simply wasn't a very good QB. Then, you toss in the fact that the guy is an egomanical self-centered prick, and its no wonder why legions of people don't like him. He actively divided the locker room in buffalo. His schtick of "I won the game, but we lost it" got old in a hurry.

 

Don't start with the "21-10" record either. Records for QBs are bogus, which is why no one outside of TBD cares about them. That was more a function of our spectacular defense during dougie's time here other than anything. Flutie was not this magic little QB wo never got a fair shot. He got his shots, and wasn't very good. Little dougie was a mediocre QB who had 1 good season.

Hey Ramius,

 

Thanks for the intelligent, if a bit acerbic reply (I think you set a record for saying "little dougie").

 

Yeah he was brilliant in that game in Miami where he outgained Marino in total yards 389-234. We were also screwed by an officials call in the 4th quarter on a pass to Reed. Flutie was heroic in that game leading us back and he was definitely not the reason we lost. I'll never forget that game.

 

As for '99 you can say we rode a great defense because that was a great defense. In fairness though, Flutie's record in those years with that defense was 21-10 (.667 winning percentage). With the same team, Rob Johnson was 9-17 (.346 winning percentage). In other words, Flutie won nearly twice as often with the same team. I know you would probably argue that the stats say more about Johnson than they do Flutie. Whatever.

 

I agree that statistics are not the greatest way to make/break arguments but they are the only objective means. Anything non-statistical is unfortunately a subjective evaluation of performance. In every industry, statistics are used to evaluate performance.

 

Of all the stats I feel the best (albeit flawed) stat for quarterbacks is winning percentage. Very few good quarterbacks have bad winning percentages and very few bad quarterbacks have good winning percentages. I choose to believe that he had great intangibles that made him a winner throughout his entire football career. I don't think that can be argued when you look at his accomplishments.

 

I agree that he was not as effective in taking us to our last playoff appearance in '99 but we certainly wouldn't have gotten there with Johnson under center.

 

As I've said in other posts, Flutie and Garcia and a lot of guys are insecure athletes. Because of how small they are or how they're perceived, or how they speak or where they were drafted, etc etc etc. A lot of these guys have "little man syndrome" aka Napoleon Complex, aka Little Hitler Complex. If you read a lot of Garcia's quotes it's the same thing. Me, this is my team, my value, being disrespected, etc. The upside of this is that it shows a competitive fire and "little Dougie" also had quite a bit of competitive fire. No successful 5'9" NFL QB wouldn't have a blast furnace for a heart.

 

Finally, I believe the guy saved the franchise. I used to be a producer for Van Miller and I've had a discussion with Van and with Mark Gaughan about this. Many people in Buffalo believe he saved the franchise but you never hear anyone who's grateful to him for that. It's like a forgotten fact and people would rather focus on the negatives instead of all the very exciting and wonderful things he did when he was there. I just don't get it.

 

I respect your opinion Ramius but I will go to my grave believing that he was a good quarterback and more importantly I'll always be grateful that he did more than anyone to keep the Bills in Buffalo. I wish more people were.

[reddogblitz]

I don't get the revisionist history on Doug Flutie either. OK, so he fumbled late in that playoff game. He passed for 360 yards! Maybe if some other guys had made a few more plays it wouldn't have come down to that. He had a good game, but we lost. Heck, I've seen the immortal Brett Favre blow it late in playoff games too and he's not trashed forever for it. I also don't get when people say other teams had figured him out and he was easy to defend. Well if he was, he still won way more than he lost. 10 out of his last 15 as a starter. That's having teams having you figured out and can stop you?

 

He had a winning style and attitude about him that caused his teammates to pickup their game. I was at a game in his last season at the Ralph where Rob Johnson was sucking and the Bills were doing nothing. RJ got hurt and Flutie came in and immediately it looked like a new team. The lady in front of me said "they play different when he's in there". You can't coach that. Either you got it or you don't. Tom Brady's got it. Roger Staubach, Terry Bradshaw. Big Ben, Jim Kelly are other examples.

 

He fumbled in the '98 playoff game. Get over it. Still doesn't mean he wasn't good. It's like complaining cuz you had to wear a sweater at Disney Land. 98 and 99 were some exciting seasons. What I wouldn't do to get to the playoffs and lose a close first round playoff game late again someday ...