Did anyone see the story on Planned Pernthood

[Taro T]

I can tell you that I have had several girlfriends who have used Planned Parenthood services on a regular basis, NONE of them had abortions. They used their health services, and received birth control from the organization.

 

One would think that those opposed to abortion, in any form, would be a big supporter of contraception, yet that just isn't the case, is it?

 

But, bottom line, does anyone really believe that having a gift certificate to PP is going to make a woman more likely to have an abortion? "Honey I'm pregnant! You know, we do have that gift certificate, and it would be a shame to see it go to waste."

Dean, why does being opposed to abortion necessarily imply an opposition to contraception?

 

While I will admit that there are people that oppose both, there are MANY people that are fine w/ contraception but opposed to abortion. I'd actually be extremely surprised if the number of pro-contraception but anti-abortion advocates weren't in the millions in this country alone.

[Taro T]

PP has done a poor job of fighting the perception of what they really are. They should be actively fighting that perception with a strong media campaign accentuating their other services. The majority of people in this country, even those who are pro-choice, would probably respond something about abortion first when PP comes up. If they had released the card idea with a BIG media campaign telling people what the cards can be used for other than abortions it would have garnered a large amount of education to the public.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Once again I'll say that anyone who doesn't have an adopted child should STFU if they are against a woman's right to choose.

 

What the anti-rights nutjobs fail to understand is that if Roe v. Wade is overturned it will only become a states rights issue again and some states will allow it and others wont and it will become the big fustercluck it was before the decision.

 

 

Where did I say that people who are against abortion are anything negative? I don't like abortion but see it's sometimes necessary. I'm talking about those who are against it legally.

Ah, yes. You have nothing against those who oppose abortion, you simply don't believe those people should be allowed to express their 1st amendment rights unless they have adopted a child. How very reconstruction South Carolina of you.

[RkFast]

Where did I say that people who are against abortion are anything negative? I don't like abortion but see it's sometimes necessary. I'm talking about those who are against it legally.

 

This is why I LOVE PPP. You basically agree with what someone is saying, and do so with humility, but STILL get a pissy answer back. People see who is writing something and they just pop off not becuase of the subject matter of the post, but because of the pre-conditioned pavlov-like response each idjit here has been trained to puke up for each respective poster.

 

Ive never seen such desire for self-flagellation since I attended the AVN Convention in Vegas a few years back. Except instead of a desire to do it to a fine blonde, its done over how "smart" each tool here thinks there are.

[The Dean]

Dean, why does being opposed to abortion necessarily imply an opposition to contraception?

 

While I will admit that there are people that oppose both, there are MANY people that are fine w/ contraception but opposed to abortion. I'd actually be extremely surprised if the number of pro-contraception but anti-abortion advocates weren't in the millions in this country alone.

 

 

I didn't mean to imply that one HAD to be both anti-choice and opposed to contraception (and don't think I did imply that), but I am saying that most of the vocal anti-choice groups seem to have little vocal interest in the PREVENTION of unwanted pregnancies. In fact, it's often the same organizations protesting at an abortion clinic, and fighting sex education in school (and the distribution of condoms to teens).

 

I understand there are some, like yourself who are not opposed to contraception. (There are over 300 million people in the USA, so I would also assume their number is in the millions.) But, if it is common to be anti-choice and pro-contraception then the major anti-choice groups are doing a poorer job of letting that be known, than PP is of letting the public know they are, primarily, a women's health organization.

 

The rift between pro and anti choice isn't likely to be mended for a long time. But, one would think they could at least work together to actively work on reducing the number of unwanted pregnancies, and actively promoting adoption. I think most people would prefer fewer, rather than more, abortions.

[Taro T]

I didn't mean to imply that one HAD to be both anti-choice and opposed to contraception (and don't think I did imply that), but I am saying that most of the vocal anti-choice groups seem to have little vocal interest in the PREVENTION of unwanted pregnancies. In fact, it's often the same organizations protesting at an abortion clinic, and fighting sex education in school (and the distribution of condoms to teens).

I'd say that those groups are interested in the prevention of unwanted pregnancies, they simply choose a rather naive (and extremely ineffective) method to prevent unwanted pregnancies.

I understand there are some, like yourself who are not opposed to contraception. (There are over 300 million people in the USA, so I would also assume their number is in the millions.) But, if it is common to be anti-choice and pro-contraception then the major anti-choice groups are doing a poorer job of letting that be known, than PP is of letting the public know they are, primarily, a women's health organization.

 

The rift between pro and anti choice isn't likely to be mended for a long time. But, one would think they could at least work together to actively work on reducing the number of unwanted pregnancies, and actively promoting adoption. I think most people would prefer fewer, rather than more, abortions.

There's far too much distrust (and hatred) in the vocal groups of their antithesis for them to actively work together. Heck, there's distrust (probably not the right word, but contempt seems too severe) between those situated towards the middle as well. As an example, while I don't believe that you are at the extreme end of the pro-choice spectrum, though you are on that side of the fence, you explicitly refer to those that oppose abortion as "anti-choice" rather than either "anti-abortion" or "pro-life". Simply opposing abortion isn't opposing "choice" per se, it's opposing one particular choice.

 

And for whatever it's worth, the vocal pro-choice crowd does a very poor job of publicising that they support adoption (if in fact the hardliners do support it).

 

Also, I agree with you that education and contraception are very important tools to reduce unwanted pregnancies. I think we'd also agree that adoption is a much better result of an unwanted pregnancy than is abortion.

[SageAgainstTheMachine]

This is why I LOVE PPP. You basically agree with what someone is saying, and do so with humility, but STILL get a pissy answer back. People see who is writing something and they just pop off not becuase of the subject matter of the post, but because of the pre-conditioned pavlov-like response each idjit here has been trained to puke up for each respective poster.

 

Ive never seen such desire for self-flagellation since I attended the AVN Convention in Vegas a few years back. Except instead of a desire to do it to a fine blonde, its done over how "smart" each tool here thinks there are.

 

And you don't consider yourself one of these tools?

[EC-Bills]

Speak Engrish, please.

 

Why? You wouldn't understand it anyway.

[EC-Bills]

I also recently read that the Komen Foundation (the pink ribbon group) has given hundreds of thousands to Planned Parenthood. Why did they do that? Planned Parenthood's largest source of income is from abortions.

Also, Margaret Sanger , the founder was a racist. Read her speeches. She talked extensively about controlling the Negro population.

 

No doubt you have been reading your propaganda rags again. Get a clue.

[DC Tom]

Why? You wouldn't understand it anyway.

 

[Steely Dan]

Ah, yes. You have nothing against those who oppose abortion, you simply don't believe those people should be allowed to express their 1st amendment rights unless they have adopted a child. How very reconstruction South Carolina of you.

 

My bad. What I meant but didn't clearly say is that anyone who favors making abortions illegal should STFU. I personally am against abortions but I believe in a womans right to choose.

 

Is that clearer?

[Taro T]

My bad. What I meant but didn't clearly say is that anyone who favors making abortions illegal should STFU. I personally am against abortions but I believe in a womans right to choose.

 

Is that clearer?

No, you were clear the 1st time as well. Anyone that can't afford to raise an additional child obtained through adoption does not deserve to have a say in the discussion unless they are pro-abortion. That may not have been your intent, but that is what it amounts to: if you have not adopted a child (for whatever reason) you don't have the right to state that abortion should be illegal. That is crystal clear.

[Steely Dan]

No, you were clear the 1st time as well. Anyone that can't afford to raise an additional child obtained through adoption does not deserve to have a say in the discussion unless they are pro-abortion. That may not have been your intent, but that is what it amounts to: if you have not adopted a child (for whatever reason) you don't have the right to state that abortion should be illegal. That is crystal clear.

 

What do you mean by an additional child? If they have any of their own why didn't they adopt a kid instead? Why wouldn't they? IMO, it's because they don't care about the orphaned children they say they do but they don't or they'd have adopted kids instead of their own. So yes I think those people should STFU.

[Taro T]

What do you mean by an additional child? If they have any of their own why didn't they adopt a kid instead? Why wouldn't they? IMO, it's because they don't care about the orphaned children they say they do but they don't or they'd have adopted kids instead of their own. So yes I think those people should STFU.

What do I mean by an "additional child"? I mean one more than they had prior to adopting a child. Is that really that hard to understand?

 

We are in a discussion about unplanned / unwanted children and you are honestly asking how somebody that has a child would have one of their own rather than someone elses? Again, your view is painfully clear that the only people allowed into the discussion if they don't agree with you are the people that have enough money to afford to adopt a child.

 

[Edit] And, to make it explicitly clear for you, even for those people that don't have any children at all because they can't afford to raise a child, an adopted child would be an "additional child".

Edited December 6, 2008 by Taro T

[Steely Dan]

What do I mean by an "additional child"? I mean one more than they had prior to adopting a child. Is that really that hard to understand?

 

We are in a discussion about unplanned / unwanted children and you are honestly asking how somebody that has a child would have one of their own rather than someone elses? Again, your view is painfully clear that the only people allowed into the discussion if they don't agree with you are the people that have enough money to afford to adopt a child.

 

[Edit] And, to make it explicitly clear for you, even for those people that don't have any children at all because they can't afford to raise a child, an adopted child would be an "additional child".

 

If they truly cared about unwanted children they would. When the orphanages are all empty then we can seriously discuss illegalizing a woman's right to choose. Until then it shouldn't be an issue.

 

While these Pro-Lifer's are marching and complaining about abortions thousands if not hundreds of thousands of kids in the U.S. need parents and a good home. That doesn't seem to come up as a cause for those people though. Why don't these religious people take all the money they spend on anti-abortion actions and put it into adoption actions? Why don't they carry signs of children needing homes? Why don't they care about those kids?

[/dev/null]

Does anyone else see the irony in the fact that whoever posted the original thread didn't even spell parenthood (Pernthood) correctly?

[outsidethebox]

Does anyone else see the irony in the fact that whoever posted the original thread didn't even spell parenthood (Pernthood) correctly?

lol!

[Steely Dan]

Know I's din't.

[/dev/null]

Know I's din't.

Quelle Surprise

[Taro T]

If they truly cared about unwanted children they would. When the orphanages are all empty then we can seriously discuss illegalizing a woman's right to choose. Until then it shouldn't be an issue.

 

While these Pro-Lifer's are marching and complaining about abortions thousands if not hundreds of thousands of kids in the U.S. need parents and a good home. That doesn't seem to come up as a cause for those people though. Why don't these religious people take all the money they spend on anti-abortion actions and put it into adoption actions? Why don't they carry signs of children needing homes? Why don't they care about those kids?

Truly they would. 100% of the time.

 

Because no one is ever living close to paycheck to paycheck nor might they ever fear losing their job for a rather spurious reason. The fact that someone cares about babies doesn't necessarily translate into their having the resources to care for them. How would you propose that someone who has fallen on hard times and can't support their current family (regardless of structure) go out and adopt a child simply because they believe that abortion is morally reprehensible?

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Does anyone else see the irony in the fact that whoever posted the original thread didn't even spell parenthood (Pernthood) correctly?

 

 

It's never a spelling issue with me. It's a typing issue