H2o Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 Everyone talks about how many games he's started, but how many is he allowed to start before we should see the results of "experience" on the field? The guy needs to start showing progression, not digression. People keep saying, "It's a new offense and he's young so give him time to develope." How much time is enough? WE HAD OUR BEST SHOT AT THE PLAYOFFS IN 10 YEARS and he's gaffed that away with his poor performances coupled with untimely TO's. When do we say enough is enough, after 2 more years of Jauron and TE doing crap like this? We already had Losman's head on a platter after this amount of time. I'm not an avid Losman supporter, but Trent hasn't looked much better than what we had with JP. Atleast the defense had to respect the deep routes with him starting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Adams Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 What free pass are you talking about? This board is FULL of criticisms of his play. JP has proven he sucked. Trent is playing poorly but at this point, we might as well see if he can return to good form. If he can't, it's time to scrap the QB position and rebuild. Again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 Here's my answer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 Here's my answer 20 games? Does that apply to non-QBs also? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 20 games? Does that apply to non-QBs also? I don't think so. Other positions are more reactionary(DE) and therefore you can tell how good a guy is going to be a lot sooner. There is just so much more involved in being a QB that it takes longer to get it all. I'm not sure that my 20 game mark is fair or not it is just something I've used. And I wasn't down on JP until the Jax game in '06. I think it was about thirty games in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrFishfinder Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 Everyone talks about how many games he's started, but how many is he allowed to start before we should see the results of "experience" on the field? The guy needs to start showing progression, not digression. People keep saying, "It's a new offense and he's young so give him time to develope." How much time is enough? WE HAD OUR BEST SHOT AT THE PLAYOFFS IN 10 YEARS and he's gaffed that away with his poor performances coupled with untimely TO's. When do we say enough is enough, after 2 more years of Jauron and TE doing crap like this? We already had Losman's head on a platter after this amount of time. I'm not an avid Losman supporter, but Trent hasn't looked much better than what we had with JP. Atleast the defense had to respect the deep routes with him starting. At least TE has shown the "potential" that JP never did. TE has shown better game management skills, accuracy, willingness to take what the defense is giving and 4th quarter comebacks. JP never showed any of those things IMO. Eli Manning didn't set the world on fire in his first 20 games, either. Even last year, Manning was 10-6, threw 20 picks and fumbled 13 times. And look what happened. Coughlin believed Manning had the "potential" and even when he was playing badly, kept him in there and gave him the opportunity to play through the slumps and learn from it. Neither JP nor Hamdan is going to win games for Buffalo and putting them in isn't going to help TE, either. The management has to let TE play through the end of the season and believe that he has the potential to regain the form and poise he showed at the beginning of the year. If TE didn't show that potential in the first 6 games, that would be a different matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davefan66 Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 Trent gets a free pass as long as this coaching/management regime are still in town. Now way he gets the boot unless he turns into another Billy Joe Hobert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted November 22, 2008 Author Share Posted November 22, 2008 At least TE has shown the "potential" that JP never did. TE has shown better game management skills, accuracy, willingness to take what the defense is giving and 4th quarter comebacks. JP never showed any of those things IMO. Eli Manning didn't set the world on fire in his first 20 games, either. Even last year, Manning was 10-6, threw 20 picks and fumbled 13 times. And look what happened. Coughlin believed Manning had the "potential" and even when he was playing badly, kept him in there and gave him the opportunity to play through the slumps and learn from it. Neither JP nor Hamdan is going to win games for Buffalo and putting them in isn't going to help TE, either. The management has to let TE play through the end of the season and believe that he has the potential to regain the form and poise he showed at the beginning of the year. If TE didn't show that potential in the first 6 games, that would be a different matter. For Losman: Potential? The 2006 season. 62.5% completion rate, 3,051 yards, 19 TD's vs. 14 INT's 4th Quarter comebacks? Houston (Pass to Price w/ 15 seconds left), Jax (Aided by Parrish's catch) in 2006 Losman has a problem with fumbles at times, yes. The "deer in the headlights" look at times, yes. Does Trent offer us a better chance to win? I say no. Has Trent shown us anything different than JP? No. Well, yes if you count the ability to throw meaningless 2 yard passes. Trent has 10 INT's on the season vs. 8 TD's, 7 of those INT's being in the last 3 games. He's lost 4 fumbles. He's completing 66.5%, yes, but half of the completions are check downs to RB's. Marshawn and Fred can't do it all. Neither can our line keep holding defenders off for 5 seconds so Trent can throw that check down. Like I said, I'm not an avid Losman supporter, but you guys keep throwing him under the bus in favor of TrINT Edwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 Free pass? He's being paid, isn't he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 Everyone talks about how many games he's started, but how many is he allowed to start before we should see the results of "experience" on the field? The guy needs to start showing progression, not digression. People keep saying, "It's a new offense and he's young so give him time to develope." How much time is enough? WE HAD OUR BEST SHOT AT THE PLAYOFFS IN 10 YEARS and he's gaffed that away with his poor performances coupled with untimely TO's. When do we say enough is enough, after 2 more years of Jauron and TE doing crap like this? We already had Losman's head on a platter after this amount of time. I'm not an avid Losman supporter, but Trent hasn't looked much better than what we had with JP. Atleast the defense had to respect the deep routes with him starting. I've said this before and I'll say it again. To answer this question just ask yourself what a great head coach like Bill Cowher or Jeff Fisher would do. I'd have to think that Edwards would have been pulled sometime during that Browns game if they were the head coaches. The season was on the line and the starting QB was seriously regressing. It would not mean that he is no longer the future of the team, just that his development is not above the 2008 Bills' team goal of winning and trying to make the playoffs. These two coaches would not have just left his entire team high and dry like Jauron has. I'm sure the locker room is very much divided on the subject right about now. I'm sure a good majority are not yet in the "wait till next year" mode. Would you be if you were busting your butt???? These fans here who want Edwards to play no matter what are crazy if you'd think you'd feel the same way if you were one of the players that still believed you could get the wild card if you went on a winning streak. I say let him start the KC game and pull him quickly if he throws an interception and clearly looks like he's shaky. This isn't about JP Losman, it's about doing something, anything to save the season. Once the Bills are out for the count then Edwards could be put back in, this is of course if he's been pulled in the KC game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cåblelady Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 What free pass are you talking about? This board is FULL of criticisms of his play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanoverbills Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 For Losman: Potential? The 2006 season. 62.5% completion rate, 3,051 yards, 19 TD's vs. 14 INT's 4th Quarter comebacks? Houston (Pass to Price w/ 15 seconds left), Jax (Aided by Parrish's catch) in 2006 Losman has a problem with fumbles at times, yes. The "deer in the headlights" look at times, yes. Does Trent offer us a better chance to win? I say no. Has Trent shown us anything different than JP? No. Well, yes if you count the ability to throw meaningless 2 yard passes. Trent has 10 INT's on the season vs. 8 TD's, 7 of those INT's being in the last 3 games. He's lost 4 fumbles. He's completing 66.5%, yes, but half of the completions are check downs to RB's. Marshawn and Fred can't do it all. Neither can our line keep holding defenders off for 5 seconds so Trent can throw that check down. Like I said, I'm not an avid Losman supporter, but you guys keep throwing him under the bus in favor of TrINT Edwards. Yea, if he keeps going the way he is ,he'll have 20 int. and they'll still consider him better than Losman.Some reason they see Losman faults, but don't see Edwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 I'd have to think that Edwards would have been pulled sometime during that Browns game if they were the head coaches. I would have agreed during the Monday night game, but despite looking shaky and being very reluctant to throw downfield, Edwards didn't make any further mistakes after the disastrous 1Q and did put his team in a position to win the game (that argument ought to appeal to RJ supporters from the MSM game). I think there is a lot of value in letting a young guy work through the issues on the field if he isn't doing doing any further damage. Tony Romo from last years' MNF game is a good example. I'm sure the locker room is very much divided on the subject right about now. I'm sure a good majority are not yet in the "wait till next year" mode. Would you be if you were busting your butt???? Maybe, maybe not. There was a lot of talk earlier about how much the team was behind Edwards so I'd like the think they aren't as quick to abandon the guy as the fans. These fans here who want Edwards to play no matter what are crazy if you'd think you'd feel the same way if you were one of the players that still believed you could get the wild card if you went on a winning streak. I say let him start the KC game and pull him quickly if he throws an interception and clearly looks like he's shaky. This isn't about JP Losman, it's about doing something, anything to save the season. Once the Bills are out for the count then Edwards could be put back in, this is of course if he's been pulled in the KC game. If JP was Don Strock, I might agree. But he doesn't give the Bills any better shot than does Edwards at this stage. Edwards is the best chance for the Bills to build a winner with the current core players; they have to stick with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngunz Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 Here's my answer What kind of poll is this 80% of the choices are "Pro" Edwards displacing blame. where is the "young qb too early to tell", "average or career backup" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills44 Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 I would have agreed during the Monday night game, but despite looking shaky and being very reluctant to throw downfield, Edwards didn't make any further mistakes after the disastrous 1Q and did put his team in a position to win the game (that argument ought to appeal to RJ supporters from the MSM game). I think there is a lot of value in letting a young guy work through the issues on the field if he isn't doing doing any further damage. He made several mistakes of omission after the trifecta of INTs. Some scrub Cleveland DB also dropped an INT in the end zone later in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillnutinHouston Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 I've said this before and I'll say it again. To answer this question just ask yourself what a great head coach like Bill Cowher or Jeff Fisher would do. I'd have to think that Edwards would have been pulled sometime during that Browns game if they were the head coaches. The season was on the line and the starting QB was seriously regressing. It would not mean that he is no longer the future of the team, just that his development is not above the 2008 Bills' team goal of winning and trying to make the playoffs. I say let him start the KC game and pull him quickly if he throws an interception and clearly looks like he's shaky. This isn't about JP Losman, it's about doing something, anything to save the season. Once the Bills are out for the count then Edwards could be put back in, this is of course if he's been pulled in the KC game. CORRECT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YOOOOOO Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 If JP was Don Strock, I might agree. But he doesn't give the Bills any better shot than does Edwards at this stage. Edwards is the best chance for the Bills to build a winner with the current core players; they have to stick with him. JP lead us back in the Meadowlands after Trent had a dreadful first half..... and he also did it back a couple years ago vs KC, replacing Holcomb..... Having said that he is out of here at seasons end...this is Edwards team now...and we have to live with the ups and downs of a young QB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 JP lead us back in the Meadowlands after Trent had a dreadful first half..... and he also did it back a couple years ago vs KC, replacing Holcomb..... Having said that he is out of here at seasons end...this is Edwards team now...and we have to live with the ups and downs of a young QB Let's say you were a starter on the Bills defense and have held the Chiefs to a touchdown in the first half but the score is 17-0 because Edwards threw two interceptions, one for a picks-six and one that resulted in a field goal for the Chiefs. If the Bills lose this game they are officially history for this season. Be honest now, DO YOU REALLY WANT TO KEEP EDWARDS IN or see if Losman can come in to save the game and the Bills season? This living and dying stuff is for the birds, next season is a looooong way away. You do everything you can to win that game in KC, Edwards feelings be damned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted November 22, 2008 Author Share Posted November 22, 2008 Let's say you were a starter on the Bills defense and have held the Chiefs to a touchdown in the first half but the score is 17-0 because Edwards threw two interceptions, one for a picks-six and one that resulted in a field goal for the Chiefs. If the Bills lose this game they are officially history for this season. Be honest now, DO YOU REALLY WANT TO KEEP EDWARDS IN or see if Losman can come in to save the game and the Bills season? This living and dying stuff is for the birds, next season is a looooong way away. You do everything you can to win that game in KC, Edwards feelings be damned. I can't believe you just said that. To think short term prosperity is preposterous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 To answer this question just ask yourself what a great head coach like Bill Cowher or Jeff Fisher would do. Placing a great coach like Jeff Fisher and an utterly incompetent buffoon like Bill Cowher in the same sentence negates any salient point you may have made in the following paragraphs that I didn't bother to read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts