SouthernMan Posted November 14, 2008 Share Posted November 14, 2008 Good comparison. After all... They've got Kevin Mawae, we've got Melvin Fowler/Duke Preston They've got Albert Haynesworth and Tony Brown, we've got Marcus Stroud and Kyle Williams They've got Kyle Vanden Bosch and Jevon Kearse, we've got Chris Kelsay/Ryan Denney and Aaron Schobel They've got Alge Crumpler, we've got Robert Royal The difference? Coaching. Not sure how you meant this. Did you mean "coaching ?" - with a question mark? I think the point is made that you have to have the players who can execute and have the talent to out-man their opponents. Not trying to be an apologist for Jauron & staff, because in all honesty, I don't know to what extent they're at fault. I mean - just how do you come up with viable game plans knowing full well your squad is inferior? Trick plays? What!? The question we have to ask is why have the Bills wasted so much money and time on the likes of Rob Johnson, Drew Bledsoe, and many others who were mostly pedestrian, only to let playmakers like DTs Ted Washington and Pat Williams, DBs Clements, Winfield, LB Fletcher, etc etc etc - all get away for financial reasons. Instead of drafting a potential impact OL in 2003 like Eric Steinbach, we take a rehab project like Willis McGahee. Simply brilliant. The most easily replaceable position on offense (RB) and we waste a first round pick on an injured prospect that is at least 2 seasons away from contributing. It's not as if there weren't plenty of other areas that needed atetntion. 2 steps forward, 3 steps back. I won't even get into other wasted picks like Mike Williams, Losman, et al. Williams isn't far behind Ryan Leaf as the all-time biggest draft bust. Way to do your homework scouting staff. While some other teams have been contenders, gone downhill after their success, and rebuilt to be contenders again (Dallas, Pitt, Indy for example), the Bills still haven't figured out how to assemble an offensive line in 13 seasons. What's the point of picking players to develop like this year's first rounder McKelvin when they're just going to jump to another team by the time they're hitting their stride and up to NFL speed. The Bills may as well try to trade their picks for proven players. The decisions from the front office have been simply awful this decade. Is Jauron at fault. Somewhat I suppose. There've been some bone-headed gameday decisions. This whole mess started the day Ralph let Bill Polian get away. It's been downhill since then. Ralph may have a good 10 years left in him - who knows? Somehow I doubt his decision making is suddenly going to get better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted November 14, 2008 Share Posted November 14, 2008 Mike Smithhttp://www.nfl.com/teams/coaches?coaType=head&team=ATL John Harbaugh http://www.nfl.com/teams/coaches?coaType=head&team=BAL Tony Sparano http://www.nfl.com/teams/coaches?coaType=head&team=MIA Jim Zorn http://www.nfl.com/teams/coaches?coaType=head&team=WAS ALL rookie head coaches that have turned around losing teams. Two of them with rookie QBs! It's time for the Bills (and you) to WAKE UP and realize that a man who has had 7 out of 8 losing seasons as a head coach will NEVER become a good head coach. DICK JAURONS SUCKS MONKEY BALLS!!!! When will you ever get this? None of those guys would ever want to be in Buffalo. When are you going to get that. Jauron is far better than the other guys that made stops in Buffalo- its the franchise, owner and town thats the problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted November 14, 2008 Share Posted November 14, 2008 None of those guys would ever want to be in Buffalo. When are you going to get that. Jauron is far better than the other guys that made stops in Buffalo- its the franchise, owner and town thats the problem So Dick Jauron is what's "right" and... The Buffalo Bills franchise Ralph Wilson The City of Buffalo ...is what's "wrong" here? You've officially left the reservation my friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynical Posted November 14, 2008 Share Posted November 14, 2008 None of those guys would ever want to be in Buffalo. And you know this for a fact how? Getting a proven winning HC might be hard, but there is no shortage of assistant coaches willing to take a stab at being a HC. If you doubt me, ask yourself how does/did teams like the Bengals, Lions, and now Raiders keep finding somebody to be a HC? (And no, I am NOT saying they all were good choices) When are you going to get that. Jauron is far better than the other guys that made stops in Buffalo- its the franchise, owner and town thats the problem And no, Jauron is NOT better than the other guys, not unless your goal is to be consistently mediocre, which Jauron does seem to excel at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted November 14, 2008 Share Posted November 14, 2008 IMO, this team is better than 5-4 with Fisher as Head Coach. It's probably 6-3 minimum. Well then. Put a check in that box. Modrak/Guy have been stocking this roster with nothing but overwhelming talent since Donahoe hired them. And they both just got promoted last year too. The more things change, the more they stay the same. All of the bad teams have one thing in common: Bad front offices. Detroit had a bad GM and now has no one. Cincinnati's awful owner is the defacto GM. Oakland's GM is the owner who is well past his prime. And Buffalo doesn't have a GM. All of those teams are struggling mightily while other teams prosper. It's no wonder none of them appear headed in the right direction, despite millions spent on players and new coaches. If more fans on this board knew what happened elsewhere, their attitude would change. Unfortunately the Bills are the exception to the rest of the NFL - and not in a good way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Romes Posted November 14, 2008 Share Posted November 14, 2008 Jeff Fisher is a good example of sticking with a HC. Fisher is in his 14th year as a HC of the Houston/Tennessee franchise. Here's his record: 1994 1-5 1995 7-9 1996 8-8 1997 8-8 1998 8-8 1999 13-3 2000 13-3 fisher's 2001 7-9 2002 11-5 2003 12-4 2004 5-11 2005 4-12 2006 8-8 2007 10-6 2008 so far undefeated. Be careful about calling for someone's head too soon. I know, I know Jauron sucked in Chicago but compare his first three years here with Fishers. My point? WE'RE NOT DOOMED!! fisher's first several years were when the team was half out of town. he was coaching out of a trailer. those 8-8's early in his career were effectively 12-4 seasons all things considered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted November 14, 2008 Share Posted November 14, 2008 fisher's first several years were when the team was half out of town. he was coaching out of a trailer. those 8-8's early in his career were effectively 12-4 seasons all things considered. i just checked the stats on nfl.com and they have them listed as 8-8. unless we want to say Jauron was really 10-6 in his first year since he had just inherited a rebuilding team, and 10-6 last year due to injuries. but then, what would everyone have to be pissed about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ1 Posted November 14, 2008 Share Posted November 14, 2008 None of those guys would ever want to be in Buffalo. When are you going to get that. Jauron is far better than the other guys that made stops in Buffalo- its the franchise, owner and town thats the problem Far better???????????? I don't think so. The Oline needed to hit sleds in training camp dictated by a coach with concerns on the physicality of the line. But we have a 'player's' coach remember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steely Dan Posted November 14, 2008 Author Share Posted November 14, 2008 i just checked the stats on nfl.com and they have them listed as 8-8. unless we want to say Jauron was really 10-6 in his first year since he had just inherited a rebuilding team, and 10-6 last year due to injuries. but then, what would everyone have to be pissed about? Too true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 John Harbaughhttp://www.nfl.com/teams/coaches?coaType=head&team=BAL The interesting factoid about this one is that the Ravens have 16 players on IR already this season. And, yet they are winning with a rookie head coach and a rookie QB. I am definitely interested in seeing how it goes as they run the gauntlet of their schedule... Bad front offices. If more fans on this board knew what happened elsewhere, their attitude would change. Unfortunately the Bills are the exception to the rest of the NFL - and not in a good way. A stop gap GM wasn't the answer for a major rebuild project. I think very highly of Marv and know he did his utmost. But, he should be enjoying his retirement and even he admitted that the grind wore him out after only 2 years. The perpetuation of futility is unavoidable when the decks get cleared every few years. It takes both good players and continuity to build something special. Steve Young always puts it, "It takes 1000 snaps." And, he's assuming that the right group of talent has been assembled. The results of this decade are undeniable. The Bills haven't kept things together (Donahoe with his "the NFL is like the NCAA and you gotta rebuild every year" theory) and/or haven't put the right combination of talent on the field (breaking in young QBs by giving them no weapons; pretending great pass rushers emerge by clicking your ruby slippers together). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 The interesting factoid about this one is that the Ravens have 16 players on IR already this season. And, yet they are winning with a rookie head coach and a rookie QB. I am definitely interested in seeing how it goes as they run the gauntlet of their schedule... Maybe it's also because they have Ozzie Newsome as a GM. His draft record since 1996 is on par with almost any franchise in the NFL. In the last four drafts they've taken G Ben Grubbs, OT Jared Gaither, G/C Chris Chester, DT Haloti Ngata, and OT Adam Terry. That's five starters in four drafts on the lines, something perhaps whomever Buffalo's GM should study closely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 Maybe it's also because they have Ozzie Newsome as a GM. His draft record since 1996 is on par with almost any franchise in the NFL. In the last four drafts they've taken G Ben Grubbs, OT Jared Gaither, G/C Chris Chester, DT Haloti Ngata, and OT Adam Terry. That's five starters in four drafts on the lines, something perhaps whomever Buffalo's GM should study closely. Also, Harbaugh did not come in and "change it all up", cutting high paid veterans that might be on the decline (or present dissenting opinions), go with all new systems regardless of players strengths... but, yes, Ozzie has hit a number of grand slams over his long tenure with that team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 Also, Harbaugh did not come in and "change it all up", cutting high paid veterans that might be on the decline (or present dissenting opinions), go with all new systems regardless of players strengths... but, yes, Ozzie has hit a number of grand slams over his long tenure with that team. Definitely. For all the flak they took, Fletcher, Clements, Milloy, and McGahee are all playing at a relatively high level for teams primed for the playoffs. Yet they were dumped over time by the Bills. For all the money Buffalo saved in salary on them, additional resources were spent replacing them. At the end of the day, that's the reason were on a treadmill. Replacing those guys has resulted in a trade into the second for Posluszny, arguably Youboty and then McKelvin and Corner for Clements. Milloy's departure paved the way for Whitner and perhaps Simpson while it was all but necessary to take Lynch when McGahee was traded. That's a boatload of picks to save money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 Definitely. For all the flak they took, Fletcher, Clements, Milloy, and McGahee are all playing at a relatively high level for teams primed for the playoffs. Yet they were dumped over time by the Bills. For all the money Buffalo saved in salary on them, additional resources were spent replacing them. At the end of the day, that's the reason were on a treadmill. Replacing those guys has resulted in a trade into the second for Posluszny, arguably Youboty and then McKelvin and Corner for Clements. Milloy's departure paved the way for Whitner and perhaps Simpson while it was all but necessary to take Lynch when McGahee was traded. That's a boatload of picks to save money. And yet, even after ripping the team apart, at this juncture we're a pass rusher and an interior offensive lineman or two away from seriously competing. If whoever is running this thing sees that, it shouldn't be long until we have the kind of roster that can make a legitimate run. Maybe we need to bring in a true GM in order to get some linemen...but there may be some hope that the committee can figure it out, no? There are some intelligent people in that room. It seems pretty clear at this point that the battle is being lost in the trenches, and some of the measures they took when they first got here (Fowler, McCargo, re-signing Kelsay) haven't gotten the job done...so you'd think they'd be ready to go back to the drawing board and try once more to fix the lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynical Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 And yet, even after ripping the team apart, at this juncture we're a pass rusherand an interior offensive lineman or two away from seriously competing. If whoever is running this thing sees that, it shouldn't be long until we have the kind of roster that can make a legitimate run. Maybe we need to bring in a true GM in order to get some linemen...but there may be some hope that the committee can figure it out, no? There are some intelligent people in that room. I remember at the end of last season people complaining we needed a pass rusher. And everybody got excited when they drafted Ellis. Are you ready to write him off? As for O-Line, other than C, this was supposed to be a unit of strength going into this season. Heck, right before the season started, somebody started a thread stating we needed to give the O-Line a freaking nickname before the national media did! It seems pretty clear at this point that the battle is being lost in the trenches, and some of the measures they took when they first got here (Fowler, McCargo, re-signing Kelsay) haven't gotten the job done...so you'd think they'd be ready to go back to the drawing board and try once more to fix the lines. Here's one of my problems. Not only do they have to go back and attempt to fix something they supposedly already took care of (bringing into question their competency in assessing talent), but they will create new holes that will have to be fixed. Look at this past off-season. Other than Hardy and Ellis, what other draft picks did the Bills make to feel a critical need? Did they draft a center? No. I saw the Bills drafting a bunch of potential special teamers, because they decided to let a bunch of their veteran ones go. So now, instead of experienced veteran depth, they are stuck with rookie depth that will take a couple of years to determine if they will pan out. Those that don't, more holes to fill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 I remember at the end of last season people complaining we needed a pass rusher. And everybody got excited when they drafted Ellis. Are you ready to write him off? He's 9 games into his career, I'd hardly write him off. But when he was drafted, I figured he was a long-term project to bring along for whenever they let Schobel go. Nothing has really changed. What we need is a contribution from the left side, imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozymandius Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 I'm sure this has been pointed out, but one big difference, among many, between Fisher and Jauron is that Fisher didn't fail elsewhere. Dick Jauron's career obviously goes back beyond the past 3 seasons. He's not really 19-22 to start his career. He's 55-71. At no point in his career was Jeff fisher 55-71. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steely Dan Posted November 15, 2008 Author Share Posted November 15, 2008 Would anyone fire a HC who was 33-47 after 6 years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheChimp Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 Great piece. I don't agree with some of the other stuff but that's dead on. You are my favorite new poster because you think before you post. As I said above. See Levy, Marv Kansas City. Marv Levy should have had his job in question after he got totally outcoached in Superbowl XXV. The fact that he wasn't evaluated properly by the owner is the reason we had three more debacles, one worse than the other, to follow, squandering maybe the best collection of talent this League has ever known. Yeah, I see your Marv. Do you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steely Dan Posted November 15, 2008 Author Share Posted November 15, 2008 Marv Levy should have had his job in question after he got totally outcoached in Superbowl XXV. The fact that he wasn't evaluated properly by the owner is the reason we had three more debacles, one worse than the other, to follow, squandering maybe the best collection of talent this League has ever known. Yeah, I see your Marv. Do you? What team are you really a fan of? I know you're just here to yank our chains but I'm just curious what team you're really a fan of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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