BillsVet Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 Buffalo isn't on the verge of losing the Bills because of a lack of fervor for the Bills. Rather it is because of decades of political decisions that have consistently pushed the area further into economic decline. JDG Even worse, the population exodus out of Western NY has continued unchecked for years. That we're not even talking about a stadium for the Bills in a thread about the Colts new home is remarkable. We all know a new one for Buffalo will not be built anytime soon, even if the team remained after Wilson. Every county in western NY is behind or barely ahead of the population increase in the country since 2000. Little wonder that when jobs leave, people do right behind them. If only those NYC pols actually cared about the entire state. But that's for another time and place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 Every county in western NY is behind or barely ahead of the population increase in the country since 2000. Little wonder that when jobs leave, people do right behind them. If only those NYC pols actually cared about the entire state. But that's for another time and place. Just a curious question. Why do you blame the politicians for the mess in WNY ? Is it because they kept raising the taxes ? It seems other places have also raised taxes in the North East and still have a better economy. While raising tax might be a cause, I think it is only one of the many reasons why Buffalo is suffering. Frankly, the world economy is changing day by day and it is the ability of the society of each place to adapt to those changes, I think, keeps a city booming. A city like Buffalo failed to think forward and did not entice growth in areas other than the mills in the 70s. For example, they did not make SUNY Buffalo a big time university for research. For example, Pittsburgh is in much better shape due to the surrounding UPITT and CMU universities. These universities regularly open up new companies and new jobs around the area in many disciplines. It seems that the people of the city together should take the blame rather than soley putting it on the politicians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 Just a curious question. Why do you blame the politicians for the mess in WNY ? Is it because they kept raising the taxes ? It seems other places have also raised taxes in the North East and still have a better economy. While raising tax might be a cause, I think it is only one of the many reasons why Buffalo is suffering. Frankly, the world economy is changing day by day and it is the ability of the society of each place to adapt to those changes, I think, keeps a city booming. A city like Buffalo failed to think forward and did not entice growth in areas other than the mills in the 70s. For example, they did not make SUNY Buffalo a big time university for research. For example, Pittsburgh is in much better shape due to the surrounding UPITT and CMU universities. These universities regularly open up new companies and new jobs around the area in many disciplines. It seems that the people of the city together should take the blame rather than soley putting it on the politicians. good post. its the bane of having an industry based economy vs a service based economy. what happens when that ONE industry leaves town? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills_fan_in_raleigh Posted August 26, 2008 Share Posted August 26, 2008 It's fitting that most of we Bills fans were unable to watch the game last night due to the greed of the NFL Network. So why were you unable to watch the game? I am assuming your a drone for the cable companies and don't know how to find a sports bar in town that was showing the game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDG Posted August 26, 2008 Share Posted August 26, 2008 THANK YOU! Someone finally beat me to my usually reply using actual data, not emotion. As an urban planner and demographics junky, you;re on top of your game! Even more, if you look at a lot of the larger MSAs (metropolitan statistical areas) are larger in size than Buffalos because the unfortunate way the US Census Bureau determines the size of the MSA is how connected the outlying areas are to the central city eocnomically, using commuting data. The other thing about MSA's is that they are tied to County boundaries, which can produce lots of strange results. For example, the Los Angeles MSA extends all the way to Nevada because of the crazy county boundaries in California. Urbanized Area (UZA) boundaries have their own oddities, but in general, I tend to like them better. Any way you cut it, though, the Buffalo market has a small core than the Indianpolis market, and a poorer one. JDG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stenbar Posted August 26, 2008 Share Posted August 26, 2008 I can't imagine a Super Bowl ever being held in Buffalo. You need hotels and stuff to do, both of which Buffalo lacks at the level required for an SB game. PTR The Tuckett inn On the blvd wont cut it for you??..lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDG Posted August 26, 2008 Share Posted August 26, 2008 Just a curious question. Why do you blame the politicians for the mess in WNY ? Is it because they kept raising the taxes ? It seems other places have also raised taxes in the North East and still have a better economy. While raising tax might be a cause, I think it is only one of the many reasons why Buffalo is suffering. Frankly, the world economy is changing day by day and it is the ability of the society of each place to adapt to those changes, I think, keeps a city booming. A city like Buffalo failed to think forward and did not entice growth in areas other than the mills in the 70s. For example, they did not make SUNY Buffalo a big time university for research. For example, Pittsburgh is in much better shape due to the surrounding UPITT and CMU universities. These universities regularly open up new companies and new jobs aroowund the area in many disciplines. It seems that the people of the city together should take the blame rather than soley putting it on the politicians. I have a hard time finding proof for it, but I suspect that a major factor is that Buffalo and New York State in general still has the government bureaucracy established to run the place when it was almost twice the size about 50 years ago. I do know that New York regularly tops the Nation's most-taxed lists, and that makes it hard to entract not just businesses, but entrepreneurs as well. While politicians don't build the economy - they lay the foundation for it. Keeping taxes competitive with other jurisdictions, and streamlining the bureacracy for entrepreneurs who want to start new businesses. The proof seems to be in the pudding that New York has singularly failed to do that. I refuse to believe that Upstate New Yorkers are somehow naturally less-entrepreneurial than those of other places - they just seem to go elsewhere to do it. JDG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wacka Posted August 26, 2008 Share Posted August 26, 2008 I live in CA ad don't have the NFL Channel. I watched it on the web. If not, I could have gone to the local sports bar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VJ91 Posted August 27, 2008 Author Share Posted August 27, 2008 So why were you unable to watch the game? I am assuming your a drone for the cable companies and don't know how to find a sports bar in town that was showing the game? Yeah, I guess I'm a drone for the cable companies, since I do have cable and don't have a dish. And since the majority of people who live in the United States have cable instead of dish, that is why I brought the greed of the NFL Network up in the first place. But sure I could have found a sports bar and watched the game if I wanted to. I would have if the game would have been in the regular season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillnutinHouston Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 Marshall and Co commented last night how average to poor the Colts looked without Manning at QB.Then they went on to say, "they looked like the Bills....after Losing Jim Kelly," this was all in the context of how the LUKE looked and how booked it was. It seemed the sentiment was questioning to what degree the place will be sold out after Manning is gone and the Colts try to replace him. Don't read too much into Marshall Faulk's comments - I don't think he's capable of thinking as deeply as you give him credit for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 I have a hard time finding proof for it, but I suspect that a major factor is that Buffalo and New York State in general still has the government bureaucracy established to run the place when it was almost twice the size about 50 years ago. I do know that New York regularly tops the Nation's most-taxed lists, and that makes it hard to entract not just businesses, but entrepreneurs as well. While politicians don't build the economy - they lay the foundation for it. Keeping taxes competitive with other jurisdictions, and streamlining the bureacracy for entrepreneurs who want to start new businesses. The proof seems to be in the pudding that New York has singularly failed to do that. I refuse to believe that Upstate New Yorkers are somehow naturally less-entrepreneurial than those of other places - they just seem to go elsewhere to do it. JDG That is what I find it hard to believe. Let us say you want to start a business and the net profit you could make is X and you pay a tax Y to the govt. If you started the same business in Cleveland to amke profit X and you pay tax Z (Z < Y), you still have the cost of uprooting your family/home to a new town and establishing you and your contacts in a new place. For a small entrepreneurial establishment I don't think that extra cost is much less than Y-Z. People are not just going to take off if they don't see a big difference. As the other poster pointed out, if you have failed to maintain your service based industry and technology based industry, you are going to be on the losing end. I went to school in Albany and I saw the govt actually pour enough money into the school for setting up the nano-center etc. Why couldn't Buffalo get the same type of technology building organizations that would have got more jobs in the area and building the economy. Companies will open offices in places where they think can absorb enough talent to fulfil their job requirements. I think sadly Buffalo just does not provide that environment for companies to tap into a non-existent talent pool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krazykat Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 i GUARANTEE that if the Bills had been as successful as the Colts over the past decade, then we would have our luxury/company boxes sold out as well. and be able to sell out the boxes of a new stadium. winning fixes everything. Does it fix/increase the salaries of fans in an economically depressed region? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCBoston Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 I went to school in Albany and I saw the govt actually pour enough money into the school for setting up the nano-center etc. Why couldn't Buffalo get the same type of technology building organizations that would have got more jobs in the area and building the economy. Answer: Joe Bruno. Read, understand, and be sickened: http://www.buffalonews.com/365/story/245361.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalobillsfootball Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 Interesting review of Lucas Oil Stadium. People Flow, Restroom Trouble Top List Of Lucas Oil Issues Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bladiebla Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 Interesting review of Lucas Oil Stadium. People Flow, Restroom Trouble Top List Of Lucas Oil Issues They are making a drama about quote"Grand said there were also several restroom problems Sunday night, including a women's room toilet that wouldn't flush and a men's room automated towel dispenser that was malfunctioning. He said work had already begun on those issues."... Yes my friends the grand football opening night in the lucas oil stadium was a whopping disaster because one towl dispenser failed to work or broke and one toilet wouldnt flush. I say tear the stadium down and build a new one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 For example, Pittsburgh is in much better shape due to the surrounding UPITT and CMU universities. These universities regularly open up new companies and new jobs around the area in many disciplines. Lies, damn lies and.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 Yes my friends the grand football opening night in the lucas oil stadium was a whopping disaster because one towl dispenser failed to work or broke and one toilet wouldnt flush. Who needs a toilet. The sink's have been good enough at RWS for the past 30 years... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 Lies, damn lies and.... Statistics can be twisted in multiple ways....The article chose to look at the city of Pittsburgh excluding anything that surrounds it. For example Oakland where CMU and UPITT are located is also the home to multiple hospitals including the UPMC chain of hospitals which are continuing to grow day by day providing employment for tons of folks around here. The city in the past 10 years has built brand new state-of-the-art stadiums for the Steelers and Pirates and will be building a brand new one for the Penguins. Some of the new tech companies that have made Pittsburgh their home are GOOGLE, NetApp. Additionally, the usual big-brother companies like US STEEL, Mellon, PNC Bank, Highmark Blue Cross Blue Shield all have offices in downtown.... Compared to Buffalo, Pittsburgh is a pretty vibrant city. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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