PFW on Peters holdout

[silvermike]

I believe that it's the first actual regular season game (the Thursday night opener) rather than a player's own first regular season game.

[yall]

Pro Football Weekly. Please, I beg of you, don't confuse the two.

 

The lack of a dateline leads me to believe Sohn isn't in Pittsford, but he's been talking to someone who is there ...

 

LOL - Typo, I read both and know the difference.

 

I was just pointing out that while I think KTFABD is probably correct, I take issue with his insistance that Peters is 100% healthy.

[VOR]

Actually I'm not sure now. It would make sense that it would be before the player's team's first game. And maybe the reason neither Jackson nor Peters have reported. Well, Jackson at least, since it (losing an accrued season towards FA) affects him more than Peters.

[apuszczalowski]

He has to report by the 8th, one month before the start of the season

[DrDawkinstein]

he has to report by the 8th, but then if he shows up by week 10 he gets credit towards one thing but not the other. and i always confuse those details, so i wont pretend to know the whole thing.

[oregonbbfan]

If Peters is so team oriented ( and I think he is but is being duped by his agent) then by sitting out or even missing a good portion of camp he is doing the following to his team and the organization:

 

1) subjecting teammates to unnecessary risk of injury (Walker and esentially 2 positions on what was a good line, Trent and his backside, that doesn't need to happen)

 

2) Team missing the playoffs because we lose 1-3 games by him missing or messing up for lack of camp

 

3) Possibly getting his coach fired for missing the playoffs ( many think this should be the year and his last chance)

 

4) Player angst because of injury that shouldn't have happened or they all lose playoff monies

 

 

Sure there are all kinds of things that could happen even with Peters there, but why throw a monkey wrench into what should be a good year. If Peters is a team guy, call the Bills FO without any fanfare and get a mutual understanding agreed to like: I get to camp, we negotiate this year.

 

The longer this goes on the more the chance for animosity and something really bad happening. Both Peters and the front office should get off their duffs and get it done. Both have good reasons to do so.

[DrDawkinstein]

Or that it's still being orchestrated by Parker--in terms of having Peter's appear to override his advice and report to camp, thereby looking like a good guy--and putting the onus on the Bills to pay up in response to his show of good faifth....

 

 

then why play out this whole charade? if this were the case then both Peters and Parker are even dumber than we thought. his show of good faith should have been being in camp the first day and doing everything right.

[BuffaloBob]

I love all of this talk about how the client is the boss and all tactics are at least tacitly approved by the client and therefore the client's responsibility. This is all well and good in theory, but do you really think guys like Jason Peters, who probably took nothing but basket weaving and skirt-chasing iin college have the intellect to stand up to these agents who dazzle them with their mastery of negotiation strategy and the big dollar score that is at the end of the hold-out rainbow?

 

These guys are supposed to be professional negotiators. Do you really think they haven't mastered the art of manipulating there own poorly educated clients?

 

Trust me. I know what I'm doing. This is what your paying me for. You have to leave this to me. Don't talk to anyone on the team, not even your supposed friends. They will try to drive a wedge between us. We have to stay strong and present a unified front. We can't give in. This is a seige mentality. You have to be totally committed or it will never work. Trust me, this is all for your own good.

[Kelly the Dog]

I love all of this talk about how the clinet is the boss and all tactics are at least tacitly approved by the client ands therefore the client's responsibility.

Ultimately it is. The client can fire his agent. The client can tell his agent to get me in camp, accept or don't accept the deal, etc. The agent literally and figuratively "represents" the client. It doesn't mean if the agent is an ass that the player is automatically an ass. But the client is not going to be sitting out when he wants to play just because the agent tells him no, you're sitting. The client is always at the very least complicit, always in charge, and always has the final say. If he is trusting the agent's word, as in "I think we should sit out training camp" the client is still the one making that decision.

 

Sure, agents take advantage of some clients by intimidating them and saying I know what is best, but even then, it's the client's fault for being stupid.

[BuffaloBob]

Ultimately it is. The client can fire his agent. The client can tell his agent to get me in camp, accept or don't accept the deal, etc. The agent literally and figuratively "represents" the client. It doesn't mean if the agent is an ass that the player is automatically an ass. But the client is not going to be sitting out when he wants to play just because the agent tells him no, you're sitting. The client is always at the very least complicit, always in charge, and always has the final say. If he is trusting the agent's word, as in "I think we should sit out training camp" the client is still the one making that decision.

 

Sure, agents take advantage of some clients by intimidating them and saying I know what is best, but even then, it's the client's fault for being stupid.

Boy, I normally think your posts are very insightful, but this is just utter nonsene. Gee, so why don't we just do away with all of the Cannons of Ethics governing the legal profession then? Hey, if an attorney takes advantage of a client or just gives a client bad advice, we can just say, "Hey client, it's your fault for being stupid."

[Buffalo_soul-dier]

<----

 

why the heck are you beating a dead hamster?!?!?!

[BuffaloBob]

Ultimately it is. The client can fire his agent. The client can tell his agent to get me in camp, accept or don't accept the deal, etc. The agent literally and figuratively "represents" the client. It doesn't mean if the agent is an ass that the player is automatically an ass. But the client is not going to be sitting out when he wants to play just because the agent tells him no, you're sitting. The client is always at the very least complicit, always in charge, and always has the final say. If he is trusting the agent's word, as in "I think we should sit out training camp" the client is still the one making that decision.

 

Sure, agents take advantage of some clients by intimidating them and saying I know what is best, but even then, it's the client's fault for being stupid.

Oh, and thanks for the lesson on the agent/client relationship. However, you completely fail to address the fact that often the agent is hired because of the agent's superior knowledge of legal and other issues surrounding the representation. In the legal profession, lawyers owe their client's a fiduciary duty of care because of this often vast disparity in knowledge. It is that disparity that provides opporuntiy for the attorney to further his/her own interests above those of the client.

 

Unfortunately, sports agents are not governed by those Cannons of Ethics, at least the non-lawyer ones aren't (and arguably neither are the lawyer/agents, because they are arguably not practicing law per se), and they constantly operate in the shadow of huge conflicts of interest and in a manner which would not be permitted under any state bar.

 

Boy, with your attitude, I certainly wouldn't want you for my lawyer, at least not in a field with which I am unfamiliar.

[Kelly the Dog]

Oh, and thanks for the lesson on the agent/client relationship. However, you completely fail to address the fact that often the agent is hired because of the agent's superior knowledge of legal and other issues surrounding the representation. In the legal profession, lawyers owe their client's a fiduciary duty of care because of this often vast disparity in knowledge. It is that disparity that provides opporuntiy for the attorney to further his/her own interests above those of the client.

 

Unfortunately, sports agents are not governed by those Cannons of Ethics, at least the non-lawyer ones are, and they constantly operate in the shadow of huge conflicts of interest and in a manner which would not be permitted under any state bar.

 

Boy, with your attitude, I certainly wouldn't want you for my lawyer, at least not in a field with which I am unfamiliar.

I have been a client of agents and managers, however. I wouldn't want to be your lawyer.

 

You're right, in a lot of respects. And sure, a lot of agents give clients bad advice.

 

Sports agents are a lot different than lawyers however. They are almost exclusively around to get their clients the most money the quickest. That's basically it. And all the client wants them for.

 

I was talking about things like sitting out training camp. It's still Peters decision, not Parkers. If he wants to play or do right by his teammates or decides this has gone on too long, that is his decision.

[BuffaloBob]

I have been a client of agents and managers, however. I wouldn't want to be your lawyer.

 

You're right, in a lot of respects. And sure, a lot of agents give clients bad advice.

 

I was talking about things like sitting out training camp. It's still Peters decision, not Parkers. If he wants to play or do right by his teammates or decides this has gone on too long, that is his decision.

I know what you are talking about. But all of that advice is advice given by a guy who supposedly is providing the best advice to his/her client and the client is not always in best position to separate good advice from bad advice.

 

If I am an agent looking for a big payday for myself as well as more street cred, I can make a very strong and persuasive argument to an uneducated guy that he needs to stay away from training camp, cut off all communication with his friends on the team, and to let me handle it. This is not hard to do, expecially if you've cultivated trust in someone already.

 

First, you pump him up with all of the stats. You deserve to be paid way more, you are being dissed. You dah man and they're ripping you off. You've got to get their attention and this is the only way.

 

(Reminds me of the scene in Liar Liar when Jim Carrey's character is persuading the wife that she's the victim, she desrves the money, you're tired of being taken for granted, etc. etc.)

 

This is a seige mentality. If you talk to your friends , they're going to drive a wedge between us. Our front must be united. Don't worry, this is how it's done. Everyone understands it's a business. You gotta get yours and I'm here to get it for you.

 

The bottom line is, you can talk all you want about Peters being stupid and gullible, but that don't change the fact that sports agents need to be more closely regulated because of the very fact that they are not required to account for the actions ethically in the same way lawyers are. This Parker guy has clearly got some guys convinced that this tactic is the way to go, and these clients are being victimized by it. He's trying to make a name for himself at the expense of what's right, and if the BIlls cave into him, they are only going to make it worse for anyone else dealing with him in the future.

[Kelly the Dog]

The bottom line is, you can talk all you want about Peters being stupid and gullible, but that don't change the fact that sports agents need to be more closely regulated because of the very fact that they are not required to account for the actions ethically in the same way lawyers are. This Parker guy has clearly got some guys convinced that this tactic is the way to go, and these clients are being victimized by it. He's trying to make a name for himself at the expense of what's right, and if the BIlls cave into him, they are only going to make it worse for anyone else dealing with him in the future.

I never said and don't think Peters is stupid and gullible. Just the opposite. I think he is complicit in this and Parker didnt take advantage of him at all. I have no way of knowing that. I just think this is part of a strategy.

[BuffaloBob]

Sports agents are a lot different than lawyers however. They are almost exclusively around to get their clients the most money the quickest. That's basically it. And all the client wants them for.

Oh, and I completely disagree with this statement. There are many, many situations in which this is a lawyer's only goal as well.

 

There are in fact more similarities than disimilarities. Negotiating contracts is something that lawyer's do all of the time, and that is true not only for personal services, but for settlement's of disputes and structuring of business relationships. In all of these circumstances, there is ample opporunity for the representative to take advantage of their clients' lack of knowledge to further their own interests. This is particualry true when the lawyers are being compensated based on the amount of money their client gets.

 

And even if that is all any player wants is the most money he can get, there are still many circumstances of which the client should be made aware in pursuing that goal that may or may not also serve the representative's own interests.

 

The fact is, if an agent wants to get a big pay day for him/herself (and at the same time estbish himself as the guy who gets players renegotiated deals), he may not think twice about the ramifications to the client in pursuing an unworkable strategy, even though he is able to convice his client to the contrary.

 

I think Peters is getting bad advice from a guy who is trying to make a name for himself and is trying to elevate his street cred to attract future clients. I think he is doing this even though this is not in his client's best interests to do so. And I think it may take Jason some time to realize this, because Parker guy has manipulated him into believing otherwise. Finally, I'm not willing to blame Peters and his stupidity for that.

[Kelly the Dog]

Oh, and I completely disagree with this statement. There are many, many situations in which this is a lawyer's only goal as well.

 

There are in fact more similarities than disimilarities. Negotiating contracts is something that lawyer's do all of the time, and that is true not only for personal services, but for settlement's of disputes and structuring of business relationships. In all of these circumstances, there is ample opporunity for the representative to take advantage of their clients' lack of knowledge to further their own interests. This is particualry true when the lawyers are being compensated based on the amount of money their client gets.

 

And even if that is all any player wants is the most money he can get, there are still many circumstances of which the client should be made aware in pursuing that goal that may or may not also serve the representative's own interests.

 

The fact is, if an agent wants to get a big pay day for him/herself (and at the same time estbish himself as the guy who gets players renegotiated deals), he may not think twice about the ramifications to the client in pursuing an unworkable strategy, even though he is able to convice his client to the contrary.

 

I think Peters is getting bad advice from a guy who is trying to make a name for himself and is trying to elevate his street cred to attract future clients. I think he is doing this even though this is not in his client's best interests to do so. And I think it may take Jason some time to realize this, because Parker guy has manipulated him into believing otherwise. Finally, I'm not willing to blame Peters and his stupidity for that.

Parker has been a top, top agent since 1995 or before. He doesn't need street cred, he attained it a decade ago. He had Deion Sanders and Emmitt Smith and Rod Woodson and a host of stars.

[dave mcbride]

Parker has been a top, top agent since 1995 or before. He doesn't need street cred, he attained it a decade ago. He had Deion Sanders and Emmitt Smith and Rod Woodson and a host of stars.

I was just about to say that. Good catch. I have to think that there may be is something to Dr. Z's point about a longtime combative agent taking on a rookie (Brandon).

[BuffaloBob]

I never said and don't think Peters is stupid and gullible. Just the opposite. I think he is complicit in this and Parker didnt take advantage of him at all. I have no way of knowing that. I just think this is part of a strategy.

Well, obviously being stupid and gullible is not mutually exclusive of being complicit.

 

Ultimately it is. The client can fire his agent. The client can tell his agent to get me in camp, accept or don't accept the deal, etc. The agent literally and figuratively "represents" the client. It doesn't mean if the agent is an ass that the player is automatically an ass. But the client is not going to be sitting out when he wants to play just because the agent tells him no, you're sitting. The client is always at the very least complicit, always in charge, and always has the final say. If he is trusting the agent's word, as in "I think we should sit out training camp" the client is still the one making that decision.

 

Sure, agents take advantage of some clients by intimidating them and saying I know what is best, but even then, it's the client's fault for being stupid.

 

In the statement above, you basically absolve the agent of any influence on the outcome, because it is always the client who is in charge. You then concede that maybe an agent could intimidate the client into following the agent's advice, but it is still the fault of and the responsibility of the client for being stupid enough to let that happen.

 

What about manipulation? Is it really so hard to believe that an agent who is good at negotiating could also convince a client that a stratagy is the best, even though it may only be so for the agent and not for the client. And does that make the client stupid and therefore ultimately responsible?

 

Of course this is part of a strategy. But who's strategy? Peters? Sure, his agent no doubt laid this whole plan out for him. And Peters no doubt ulitmately agreed to it. But beyond that, you don't know how much of this was sold to him by a guy who is trying to get his own big payday and is looking to make him look like a hero to his next generation of clients.

 

I have represented 100s of clients, and while a few of them are very knowledgeable and therefore question everything and are very active in the decision making process, the vast majority of them are clueless and are easily convinced of what is the right way to go and how to go about it. If I were not the person I am, I could have taken great advantage of that trust to advance my own interests over theirs, and not always to their complete detriment either.

 

I think Peters has been sold a bill of goods and I think it will be a while before that becomes completely clear to him.

[PromoTheRobot]

Well, obviously being stupid and gullible is not mutually exclusive of being complicit.

 

 

 

In the statement above, you basically absolve the agent of any influence on the outcome, because it is always the client who is in charge. You then concede that maybe an agent could intimidate the client into following the agent's advice, but it is still the fault of and the responsibility of the client for being stupid enough to let that happen.

 

What about manipulation? Is it really so hard to believe that an agent who is good at negotiating could also convince a client that a stratagy is the best, even though it may only be so for the agent and not for the client. And does that make the client stupid and therefore ultimately responsible?

 

Of course this is part of a strategy. But who's strategy? Peters? Sure, his agent no doubt laid this whole plan out for him. And Peters no doubt ulitmately agreed to it. But beyond that, you don't know how much of this was sold to him by a guy who is trying to get his own big payday and is looking to make him look like a hero to his next generation of clients.

 

I have represented 100s of clients, and while a few of them are very knowledgeable and therefore question everything and are very active in the decision making process, the vast majority of them are clueless and are easily convinced of what is the right way to go and how to go about it. If I were not the person I am, I could have taken great advantage of that trust to advance my own interests over theirs, and not always to their complete detriment either.

 

I think Peters has been sold a bill of goods and I think it will be a while before that becomes completely clear to him.

Probably after he loses a year of NFL service, missing the Aug 8 deadline, unfortunately.