We are now at, where we feared we would be

[daquix]

I spoke about this multiple times throughout the year in many different threads concerning Nate Clements and his possible departure. Now looking back, this off season (to me anyhow) has become worse then I could ever had imagined a few months ago. Yes, good teams are built through the draft. I understand that. But while they make themselves a good team through the draft, these teams are mostly willing to keep good veterans on the roster to groom the draftees and make them better. We have now let Nate Clements, London Fletcher, Willis McGahee, and Takeo Spikes (assuming) all go. This is concerning basically due to the fact that we do not already have good draftees waiting in the wings to take over these positions. We have no premier RB on the staff. Furthermore we do not even have a RB that has the possibility of a becoming a premier RB.

 

We, as Bills nation, are relying on the fact that we can "trust in Marv" and that the draft is not yet here. I hope some of you come to realize that for us to even match the record/possibility of the team we had last year, we must draft a RB who is as good immediately as Willis McGahee. Two linebackers, who are as good as Takeo Spikes and London Fletcher, immediately, and a CB who is as good as Nate Clements is, immediately (Good luck). Yes, maybe we will have a draft that will produce good players in the future (2-3 years), but I doubt any of our draftees will be as good as the players we let go, in their rookie season. Therefore, please understand that we will probably, undoubtedly, take a step back this season.

 

And all the optimists say (all together now) "trust in marv"

[Frez]

This team has been below average for a long time. Aren't you ready for something better?

[BillsVet]

This team has been below average for a long time. Aren't you ready for something better?

 

I'd hope we get better sometime soon, because we are perilously thin at a host of positions. To get back to 7-9 requires impact players who will play for less money. It's looking like 2008 will be the year, though it's too soon to write off 2007. If we had 1 or 2 positions that needed help on draft day I'd be a little more comfortable. But we're required at this point to get 2-3 instant starters from this draft. 2 at LB, a RB who gets considerable time, and a DT. And they need to play well now not next year.

[ofiba]

I hope some of you come to realize that for us to even match the record/possibility of the team we had last year, we must draft a RB who is as good immediately as Willis McGahee.

 

Is this supposed to be something hard to do?

[MadBuffaloDisease]

Is this supposed to be something hard to do?

How CAN the Bills expect to replace a 3.8 YPC, 18 catch, 6 TD no-playbook studying malcontent?

 

As for Spikes and Fletcher, thanks for the memories. And to Nate, hope you're worth it.

[ofiba]

How CAN the Bills expect to replace a 3.8 YPC, 18 catch, 6 TD no-playbook studying malcontent?

 

Just take the best back available in the 7th round. As long as he has eyes that can see a hole that opens up and legs that can run through it, he's an upgrade.

[daquix]

Is this supposed to be something hard to do?

 

How CAN the Bills expect to replace a 3.8 YPC, 18 catch, 6 TD no-playbook studying malcontent?

 

As for Spikes and Fletcher, thanks for the memories. And to Nate, hope you're worth it.

 

Yeah these witty posts are wonderful in theory, but lets be real. Yes, Willis McGahee probably didn't try his best and yes he probably could have been a better RB. Behind the horrid offensive line that the Buffalo Bills have, McGahee rushed for nearly a 1,000 yards in 14 games. Not great, but not bad. Its somewhat ridiculous how Buffalo fans tend to hate on players who are no longer on the team. Its sickening. If you expect our rookie draftee RB to rush for over 1,000 yards with our offensive line, then I hope you pass along the line whatever optimistic drug you are smoking. I would love to have a hit.

 

Just take the best back available in the 7th round. As long as he has eyes that can see a hole that opens up and legs that can run through it, he's an upgrade.

 

Oh! how witty of you. You must be proud.

[Tipster19]

Why in the world wouldn't we change this roster? Was it better to pay Nate mega money to stay? Does coaching have ANYTHING to do with end results? All we did for the last several years was purge the roster, gather a few big names, signed a boatload of second tier players and NEVER had any competency or consistency with our coaching staff. Is it at all possible that we are better at the LB position than what meets the eye? What about DT? I don't think anyone has an accurate bead on McCargo's abilities. All people talk about is our defense. What about our offense? If we are just so-so on defense, can our offense make a difference? I agree that we have questions about our team but I don't think it should only be focused on the SAME questions.

[MadBuffaloDisease]

Yeah these witty posts are wonderful in theory, but lets be real. Yes, Willis McGahee probably didn't try his best and yes he probably could have been a better RB. Behind the horrid offensive line that the Buffalo Bills have, McGahee rushed for nearly a 1,000 yards in 14 games. Not great, but not bad. Its somewhat ridiculous how Buffalo fans tend to hate on players who are no longer on the team. Its sickening. If you expect our rookie draftee RB to rush for over 1,000 yards with our offensive line, then I hope you pass along the line whatever optimistic drug you are smoking. I would love to have a hit.

Apparently you need a hit of some sort.

 

Apparently you didn't realize that the Bills signed FA O-linemen like Dockery, Walker, and Whittle. That alone should help boost the running game no matter WHO is back there. But having a guy who actually LEARNS the playbook and hits the correct hole will be an upgrade.

[daquix]

Why in the world wouldn't we change this roster? Was it better to pay Nate mega money to stay? Does coaching have ANYTHING to do with end results? All we did for the last several years was purge the roster, gather a few big names, signed a boatload of second tier players and NEVER had any competency or consistency with our coaching staff. Is it at all possible that we are better at the LB position than what meets the eye? What about DT? I don't think anyone has an accurate bead on McCargo's abilities. All people talk about is our defense. What about our offense? If we are just so-so on defense, can our offense make a difference? I agree that we have questions about our team but I don't think it should only be focused on the SAME questions.

 

We have seen most of the LB's on our roster in game. So no, I dont believe we are better at LB than what meets the eye. We did the same thing to McCargo last year, that we are doing with all of our draftees this year. We threw away the veteran (adams) and stuck in McCargo. Why not let the draftees learn under the veterans?

[daquix]

Apparently you need a hit of some sort.

 

Apparently you didn't realize that the Bills signed FA O-linemen like Dockery, Walker, and Whittle. That alone should help boost the running game no matter WHO is back there. But having a guy who actually LEARNS the playbook and hits the correct hole will be an upgrade.

 

Without a doubt, in the end, we will probably be better off by letting McGahee. Yet if you re-read my post it is mainly about, not expecting this season to be an overly optimistic season. You can not expect a rookie RB to jump in the shoes of McGahee, and on and on with the other positions we need filled.

 

Dockery was a good signing. Walker is known to Raider fans as the human "turnstile" and Whittle? Come on man. Whittle?

[Tipster19]

The four areas of concern, DT, CB, RB, LB, were players from the Donahoe regime. Now, while some of these players were good, they were either looking for a big pay or were getting big pay. Age (see Sam Adams) and attitude contributed. Although we're sick and tired of changing our roster, I think Marv covered some major groundwork in his first year and still kept us competitive. There is still more work to be done but I think, and hope, that we still stay competitive AND make the play-offs. If this does happen then I think that it's been a successful season and us fans should be happy and confident in our future.

[Nanker]

We are now at, where we feared we would be

 

Oh my GOD!

We're...

 

BillsFanOne

BillsFanOne

BillsFanOne

BillsFanOne

BillsFanOne

BillsFanOne

BillsFanOne!!!!!!!!!

 

Flee for your LIVES!!!!!

[UB Bull]

We, as Bills nation, are relying on the fact that we can "trust in Marv" and that the draft is not yet here. I hope some of you come to realize that for us to even match the record/possibility of the team we had last year, we must draft a RB who is as good immediately as Willis McGahee. Two linebackers, who are as good as Takeo Spikes and London Fletcher, immediately, and a CB who is as good as Nate Clements is, immediately (Good luck). Yes, maybe we will have a draft that will produce good players in the future (2-3 years), but I doubt any of our draftees will be as good as the players we let go, in their rookie season. Therefore, please understand that we will probably, undoubtedly, take a step back this season.

 

Simply looking at player loss vs. player gain doesn't tell the whole story. Most of the players on the team are young, and they get incrementally better every year by adding experience, strength, yadda yadda.

 

We can lose more and better players than we add and still be a better team next year.

 

It's that same thinking that leads everyone to believe the patriots will be so great next year because of the new free agents they signed.......People forget that the team is, overall, a little older than average, and the rest of their players are getting incrementally worse - just a little slower, just a little more injury prone.

 

I'm not saying we are definitely going to be better next year......I'm saying we shouldn't think the team is doomed to take a step backward jsut because we lost more than we gained.

[John from Riverside]

Yeah these witty posts are wonderful in theory, but lets be real. Yes, Willis McGahee probably didn't try his best and yes he probably could have been a better RB. Behind the horrid offensive line that the Buffalo Bills have, McGahee rushed for nearly a 1,000 yards in 14 games. Not great, but not bad. Its somewhat ridiculous how Buffalo fans tend to hate on players who are no longer on the team. Its sickening. If you expect our rookie draftee RB to rush for over 1,000 yards with our offensive line, then I hope you pass along the line whatever optimistic drug you are smoking. I would love to have a hit.

Oh! how witty of you. You must be proud.

 

 

Diquix,

 

I can understand your point of view....but why do you say "this offensive line"?

 

This line is severely upgraded....they were playing better in the second half of the season and then they bring in Dockery (I will reserve judgement on the other 2) Peters is going to be a pro bowl talent very soon......

 

Whoever is running behind THIS line is going to look VERY good. Also....it seems to me that Anthony Thomas was much better at certain RB aspects then Willis....namely pass protection and receiving.

[JoeF]

I spoke about this multiple times throughout the year in many different threads concerning Nate Clements and his possible departure. Now looking back, this off season (to me anyhow) has become worse then I could ever had imagined a few months ago. Yes, good teams are built through the draft. I understand that. But while they make themselves a good team through the draft, these teams are mostly willing to keep good veterans on the roster to groom the draftees and make them better. We have now let Nate Clements, London Fletcher, Willis McGahee, and Takeo Spikes (assuming) all go. This is concerning basically due to the fact that we do not already have good draftees waiting in the wings to take over these positions. We have no premier RB on the staff. Furthermore we do not even have a RB that has the possibility of a becoming a premier RB.

 

We, as Bills nation, are relying on the fact that we can "trust in Marv" and that the draft is not yet here. I hope some of you come to realize that for us to even match the record/possibility of the team we had last year, we must draft a RB who is as good immediately as Willis McGahee. Two linebackers, who are as good as Takeo Spikes and London Fletcher, immediately, and a CB who is as good as Nate Clements is, immediately (Good luck). Yes, maybe we will have a draft that will produce good players in the future (2-3 years), but I doubt any of our draftees will be as good as the players we let go, in their rookie season. Therefore, please understand that we will probably, undoubtedly, take a step back this season.

 

And all the optimists say (all together now) "trust in marv"

 

No need to repeat what a potentially much better OL means for a team--but if we improve our 3rd down conversions by 10% from 30% to 40% (Slightly above average for the league from below average); raise our time of possession and raise our rushing totals (which it will not take a back as good as you think McGahee is to do) its a lot less pressure on the D.

 

As a reminder, we purged Milloy, Moulds, Adams and Vincent (during the year I know) last year. This is a strategy. We also locked up Peters, Kelsay, Denney, Reed for the long term to add to TD's work on keeping Crowell and McGee. Do you see a trend developing?

 

Clements and McGahee are the only two that didn't fit the plan of keeping your young stars. Clements was just too damn expensive and McGahee simply did not want to play in Buffalo...

 

Lets see what they do with Evans and Losman before we toss Marv under the bus.

 

As an aside, I don't think we will drop off this year--we may stay the same--but this year -- not as many rookies will start--in fact probably only 1 on D--at the SAM LB...Youboty, McGargo have to step up but neither one of them is a rookie..last year in the first game-we had 5 rookies on D (Ellison, Williams, McGargo, Simpson and Whitner) and stayed competitive with a team that went to the AFC championship game and had won 3 of the past 4 super bowls..

 

Bottom Line, We are not in worse shape--we have gotten rid of names--Clements will hurt--but remember in cover 2 a shut down corner is not a every play necessity--there is always safety help--Fletcher will hurt--because of leadership and knowledge of the system--Crowell has to prove he can do this..but we are not in worse shape than last year..we have an O-line; a solid QB who only has upside; one of the best Wideouts in the game; Cap money and probably nine picks..4 in the first 100....we are doing this the right way.

[MattM]

Simply looking at player loss vs. player gain doesn't tell the whole story. Most of the players on the team are young, and they get incrementally better every year by adding experience, strength, yadda yadda.

 

We can lose more and better players than we add and still be a better team next year.

 

It's that same thinking that leads everyone to believe the patriots will be so great next year because of the new free agents they signed.......People forget that the team is, overall, a little older than average, and the rest of their players are getting incrementally worse - just a little slower, just a little more injury prone.

 

I'm not saying we are definitely going to be better next year......I'm saying we shouldn't think the team is doomed to take a step backward jsut because we lost more than we gained.

 

I agree--folks who are saying the "sky is falling" aren't taking into account the facts that (a) we had the second youngest team in the League last year and those young guys like Pennington (who may still end up starting), Whitner, Simpson, K. Williams and Youboty and McCargo who didn't get on the field much for different reasons are only going to get better with a full season and full NFL offseason under their belts and (b) the whole team will be carrying over both offensive and defensive schemes from last year, unlike 2006 when they were learning new systems on both sides of the ball. Both of those facts, especially together, should count for something--perhaps not fully negating our losses, but they seem to not get any credit at all for this from the naysayers, nor often do the signings we did make, like Dockery (I did cartwheels when I heard about that one) or even Walker (potential starter--must have some potential talent to have been a 2nd round pick)/Whittle (at worst a potential backup with experience at a number of positions).

 

As I see it, we still need help in 4 areas--at least one LB, a CB, a RB and a DT. We should get immediate help at one of those spots via the draft's #12 pick and perhaps one other draftee will step up and contribute right away--we got very lucky last year to have 4-5 guys step up right away, but I'm not even counting on that again this year. That leaves two spots to come via the rest of FA (Chris Brown or Ian Scott perhaps, once TKO and his salary are gone--I'll miss him, as he was one of my faves, but if he's still not over his injury then unfortunately it is time to move on) and players already on the team, like Youboty/Greer or Ki. Thomas or McCargo at DT. Not saying that either of those are likely, but they are possible.

 

Personally, I suspect that all of these moves are about two things. The first is positioning this team to win in 2008 and not necessarily next year--if you'll notice, now that Willis is gone we've got no major FA's unsigned going into next year and potentially a large number of extra picks this year and next. The second is that this is the Bills new small market team strategy of needing to win with young draftees since they can't financially keep up with the big boys. Those of you who don't get that need to learn more math--if the Bills are run as a business, as all team's ultimately are, there's just no way Buffalo can compete under the new CBA on a straight up competitive economic basis so they need to draft well and often and keep recycling young talent. While this certainly isn't "fair" or what we're used to under the old salary cap era, money talks and that's the way it's going be. It's possible for the Bills to succeed doing this, but it will be very difficult to do so year in and year out. Think MLB and you'll get the idea. Waiting for the Jerry Jones's, Dan Snyder's and Bob Kraft's of the world to think of the sport over their own team and wallet and you'll be waiting until the end of time, 'cause it ain't going to happen. All you Yankee fans out there now understand how the rest of MLB feels--ain't so much fun, is it? And some of those jokers wonder why MLB's ratings have been sinking like a stone for years. Not too much fun when your team has a snowballs chance in h*ll to make the playoffs, but some teams have an economic birthright to the postseason year in, year out.

[BADOLBILZ]

This offseason has done little to inspire confidence in next season, that's for sure. But Marv is still on his honeymoon with a lot of fans so it's hard to point out a negative on TSW without getting a bunch of illogical nonsense thrown back at you. If the results don't come next season, the same people who are praising his every move will be seeing red. This is the 3rd GM and 4th HC since the HyperBills days and you can set your watch by it. If you don't meet expectations in year 2 you'd better have a good excuse.

 

I spoke about this multiple times throughout the year in many different threads concerning Nate Clements and his possible departure. Now looking back, this off season (to me anyhow) has become worse then I could ever had imagined a few months ago. Yes, good teams are built through the draft. I understand that. But while they make themselves a good team through the draft, these teams are mostly willing to keep good veterans on the roster to groom the draftees and make them better. We have now let Nate Clements, London Fletcher, Willis McGahee, and Takeo Spikes (assuming) all go. This is concerning basically due to the fact that we do not already have good draftees waiting in the wings to take over these positions. We have no premier RB on the staff. Furthermore we do not even have a RB that has the possibility of a becoming a premier RB.

 

We, as Bills nation, are relying on the fact that we can "trust in Marv" and that the draft is not yet here. I hope some of you come to realize that for us to even match the record/possibility of the team we had last year, we must draft a RB who is as good immediately as Willis McGahee. Two linebackers, who are as good as Takeo Spikes and London Fletcher, immediately, and a CB who is as good as Nate Clements is, immediately (Good luck). Yes, maybe we will have a draft that will produce good players in the future (2-3 years), but I doubt any of our draftees will be as good as the players we let go, in their rookie season. Therefore, please understand that we will probably, undoubtedly, take a step back this season.

 

And all the optimists say (all together now) "trust in marv"

[Ramius]

We, as Bills nation, are relying on the fact that we can "trust in Marv" and that the draft is not yet here. I hope some of you come to realize that for us to even match the record/possibility of the team we had last year, we must draft a RB who is as good immediately as Willis McGahee. Two linebackers, who are as good as Takeo Spikes and London Fletcher, immediately, and a CB who is as good as Nate Clements is, immediately (Good luck). Yes, maybe we will have a draft that will produce good players in the future (2-3 years), but I doubt any of our draftees will be as good as the players we let go, in their rookie season. Therefore, please understand that we will probably, undoubtedly, take a step back this season.

 

And all the optimists say (all together now) "trust in marv"

 

Re: willis - 3.9 ypc, and 62 yards per game. not too difficult to replace.

 

Re: LB's - how do we need 2 starters form the draft? We have Crowell and Ellison slated to start. We need to find 1 LB in the draft to start, assuming we do trade spikes.

 

Re: CB - how do we need a starting CB from the draft? Youboty is on the roster. Hes not NC, but hes been in the system for a year, meaning we dont NEED a starting CB.

 

Most rookies make a huge jump from year 1 to year 2. They can get better you know.

 

Sorry to interrupt your rant.i'll leave now and let you and badol whisper into each other's ears how bad the bills defense is while giving each other reach-arounds.

[bartshan-83]

Setting aside the idea that our OL may be much improved, you seem to be assuming that everyone that remains on the team from last year will play at the exact same level this season. True, we have lost some key contributors, but we don't necessarily have to make up every bit of what they brought by finding equal replacements. It is possible (and very probable with such a young team), that the players currently on the roster will improve and play much better next season, thereby erasing this supposed gap we have created by jettisoning NC, Fletch, Willis and Spikes.

 

It is very possible the JP will continue to blossom into an upper-echelon QB as he made so many strides last season. Lee Evans will very probably continue his assent into the league's elite. Our young safety tandem could very well emerge into one of the best groups in the league. Ellison could continue to improve. Youboty could step in nicely. McCargo could come back from the injury and continue to improve. Roscoe could develop into a more capable WR and even more of a dangerous homerun threat. The entire team as a whole could improve after having another full offseason with what was almost an entirely new coaching staff.

 

Or none of that could happen...but I loved what I saw of this team as the season went on. And I love how many rookies contributed in significant ways. I have no reason to believe that we can't get similar production from whoever we draft this April.