Global Warming...

[Alaska Darin]

"Our spatial analysis of Antarctic meteorological data demonstrates a net cooling on the Antarctic continent between 1966 and 2000, particularly during summer and autumn."

 

It is thus quite surprising that despite apparent increase in global temperatures during the last 20 years (e.g., Jones et al. 1999), the Antarctic region in general shows slight cooling during the period. Such cooling could partly explain the slight positive trend in sea ice extent observed during the 1979–96 period by Cavalieri et al. (1997).

 

We have used ice-flow velocity measurements from synthetic aperture radar to reassess the mass balance of the Ross Ice Streams, West Antarctica. We find strong evidence for ice-sheet growth (+26.8 gigatons per year), in contrast to earlier estimates indicating a mass deficit (20.9 gigatons per year).

 

Temperatures could increase rapidly, and then decrease just as rapidly--as they have repeatedly over the past 420,000 years

 

Our data also suggest that the ice masses that border the Weddell Sea are more extensive than they were during the previous glacial minimum.

 

Keep in mind that Antarctica holds about NINETY PERCENT of the world's ICE. Draw your own conclusions. I know the hippies are all over Global Warming and I agree that we need better stewardship of the environment, but...

[Cornerville]

VERY interesting.

 

Good post AD

[Wacka]

Up very late last night and while watching a Nova show on tornadoes, (I fell asleep from 7:30-10:30 PM, then stayed up till 3 AM) and I saw a commercial for a Nova show on PBS. I think it was titled "Is the sun fooling us". Maybe they are actualy jumping off the global warming religion bandwagon?

On the other hand I could have been hallucinating.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Hey Al, whatcha got to say about THIS?

[Ramius]

good post AD.

[Merovingian]

There will be no reply form algore or any of his friends for one important reason. They do not have to answer to the facts. They make a living (and a dam good one at that) running all over the globe in private jets preaching this rhetoric. At the same time they are promoting the purchase of "carbon credits" as a way to make you feel better about your right to drive a car or heat your home. Has anyone mentioned that algore has stock in these carbon credits companies?

 

Well like I said, it a good living. As long as you do not mind living that way.

[Gavin in Va Beach]

The reason Gore is pushing global warming...

 

 

"Consider that the United States spends tens of billions of dollars on frenzied programs to upgrade and improve the technology of bombers and fighter planes to counter an increasingly remote threat to our national security, but we are content to see hundreds of millions of automobiles using an old technological approach not radically different from the one first used decades ago in the Model A Ford. We now know that their cumulative impact on the global environment is posing a mortal threat to the security of every nation that is more deadly than that of any military enemy we are ever again likely to confront. Though it is technically possible to build high-mileage cars and trucks, we are told that mandating a more rapid transition to more efficient vehicles will cause an unacceptable disruption in the current structure of the automobile industry. Industry officials content that it is unfair to single out their industry while ignoring others that also contribute to the problem; I agree, but their point only illustrates further the need for a truly global, comprehensive, and strategic approach to the energy problem. I support new laws to mandate improvements in automobile fleet mileage, but much more is needed. Within the context of the SEI [strategic Environment Initiative], it ought to be possible to establish a coordinated global program to accomplish the strategic goal of completely eliminating the internal combustion engine over, say, a twenty-five-year period." - then-Senator Al Gore, from his book, Earth in the Balance, pages 325-326, published by Houghton Mifflin Company, 1992

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

The reason Gore is pushing global warming...

 

Holy Christ. Is that guy for real? Eliminate the ICE in 25 years? So he was hoping to have eliminated them 10 years from TODAY?

 

LMAO. What a snake oil salesman.

[/dev/null]

Up very late last night and while watching a Nova show on tornadoes, (I fell asleep from 7:30-10:30 PM, then stayed up till 3 AM) and I saw a commercial for a Nova show on PBS. I think it was titled "Is the sun fooling us". Maybe they are actualy jumping off the global warming religion bandwagon?

On the other hand I could have been hallucinating.

Ah yes, the Sun. He is a crafty one isn't he. For millenia people around the world have worshipped it, developed religions, and told stories of Sun Gods.

 

But now he has some competition for followers with the new Church of Global Warming

[finknottle]

There will be no reply form algore or any of his friends for one important reason...

 

Maybe they feel that these papers are an excellent argument for global warming. With the exception of the second paper (which I couldn't retrieve in full), all seem to accept the data behind global warming.

 

Here's the opening before the first quote which the poster neglected to include:

 

"The average air temperature at the Earth's surface has increased by 0.06 °C per decade during the 20th century1, and by 0.19 °C per decade from 1979 to 19982. Climate models generally predict amplified warming in polar regions3, 4, as observed in Antarctica's peninsula region over the second half of the 20th century5, 6, 7, 8, 9. Although previous reports suggest slight recent continental warming9, 10, "

 

They are only marveling at certain counter phenomona. But this is not surprising. Only an idiot believes that an average increase of x degrees means every location will increase by x degrees. The phenonoma of global warming, should it come to pass, will be important not for the temperature rise per se but rather the disruption of current climate patterns. With new wind currents and sea currents, some places will get warmer, some colder. Some wetter, some dryer. Europe, for example, will freeze if the Atlantic conveyer shifts direction.

[Alaska Darin]

Maybe they feel that these papers are an excellent argument for global warming. With the exception of the second paper (which I couldn't retrieve in full), all seem to accept the data behind global warming.

 

Here's the opening before the first quote which the poster neglected to include:

 

"The average air temperature at the Earth's surface has increased by 0.06 °C per decade during the 20th century1, and by 0.19 °C per decade from 1979 to 19982. Climate models generally predict amplified warming in polar regions3, 4, as observed in Antarctica's peninsula region over the second half of the 20th century5, 6, 7, 8, 9. Although previous reports suggest slight recent continental warming9, 10, "

 

They are only marveling at certain counter phenomona. But this is not surprising. Only an idiot believes that an average increase of x degrees means every location will increase by x degrees. The phenonoma of global warming, should it come to pass, will be important not for the temperature rise per se but rather the disruption of current climate patterns. With new wind currents and sea currents, some places will get warmer, some colder. Some wetter, some dryer. Europe, for example, will freeze if the Atlantic conveyer shifts direction.

I didn't neglect anything. I posted the data in full. I also asked people to draw their own conclusions. To me, Global Warming is junk science. I don't at all disagree that the human race is a terrible steward of the environment and we need to be far more careful and cognizant of what we're doing to the planet, but that doesn't mean that I at all accept what Gore and the money grubbing scum who join him are selling.

 

Global Warming is Y2K and Africanized Honey Bees. Science can't accurately tell you the weather in a 10 day window but somehow the speculation that human induced CO2 emissions are having major climate affect is now considered gospel (to the point that Antarctica is getting colder and the Ross Ice Shelf is getting thicker can be pooh poohed with a wave but other areas of the planet's warming is a major cause for alarm ).

 

Environmental Groups in the US generate untold billions in solicited cash with very little oversight from the Federal Government - but I'm sure that's not what Global Warming is all about.

 

Antarctica has a huge affect on the planet's climate.

[PatPatPatSack]

I didn't neglect anything. I posted the data in full. I also asked people to draw their own conclusions. To me, Global Warming is junk science. I don't at all disagree that the human race is a terrible steward of the environment and we need to be far more careful and cognizant of what we're doing to the planet, but that doesn't mean that I at all accept what Gore and the money grubbing scum who join him are selling.

 

Oh yeah. Al Gore has decided to spend his time preaching about a problem that could negatively impact the human race. Just a wee little thing.

And that makes him money grubbing? If he were pursuing the presidency, I'd allow that insight. If he were (like the scumbag Ron Regan) shilling for foreign companies after his political career was over, I'd accept that. If he were working for a pharmaceutical company trying to get drugs approved by using his political influence to trump the scientists (ala Rummey) I'd believe that.

 

But since you have trumpeted that what 90% of scientists believe: that the earth is in involved in a general warming progression that could fundamently change our society, since you have declared that junk science, then it must be so. Hah.

 

Your opinions on the Bills are entertaining. Your pompous political posturing in the face of real scientists who do this for a living; is just plain retarded.

 

The boy who said the emperor had no clothes was just in it for the money too.

 

Those self same scientists practicing "junk science" have given you a pretty cushy life. But you should join the portion of the human race that forever believes that their dogma is better than science - well, just because.

 

Most consider you a diick. Now you are a stupid diick.

 

Rock on.

[Alaska Darin]

Oh yeah. Al Gore has decided to spend his time preaching about a problem that could negatively impact the human race. Just a wee little thing.

And that makes him money grubbing? If he were pursuing the presidency, I'd allow that insight. If he were (like the scumbag Ron Regan) shilling for foreign companies after his political career was over, I'd accept that. If he were working for a pharmaceutical company trying to get drugs approved by using his political influence to trump the scientists (ala Rummey) I'd believe that.

Would that be the same Al Gore who made his fortune off Occidental Petroleum and paved the way for them to open the environmentally sensitive Elk Hills? You're right, since he's not running for political office he couldn't possibly be doing anything untoward.

But since you have trumpeted that what 90% of scientists believe: that the earth is in involved in a general warming progression that could fundamently change our society, since you have declared that junk science, then it must be so. Hah.

At one time in history, I'm quite sure you could have found over 90% of the scientific community would agree that the earth was flat, was the center of the solar system, etc. Science is never wrong. That's why I'm pulling Africanized honey bees outta my igloo this Spring.

 

They also never invent causes, make things seem worse than they are, or fudge data a bit to get more "free" funding. Nah, that never happens.

Your opinions on the Bills are entertaining. Your pompous political posturing in the face of real scientists who do this for a living; is just plain retarded.

Uh wait, am I supposed to care about YOUR opinion for some reason?

The boy who said the emperor had no clothes was just in it for the money too.

That's just a gem.

Those self same scientists practicing "junk science" have given you a pretty cushy life. But you should join the portion of the human race that forever believes that their dogma is better than science - well, just because.

What part of "we should be better stewards of the environment" did you have a problem with? You're right, man. The fact that there's so much contrarian evidence or conclusions based on gigantic leaps while A LARGE NUMBER OF PEOPLE are getting VERY RICH off TAXPAYER money is no reason for scepticism. After all, Hollywood did make an Oscar winning "documentary" on the subject. Nothing to see here. Question nothing, it's a half a degree warmer "somewhere" and it's likely the fault of hairspray.

Most consider you a diick. Now you are a stupid diick.

Dude, I'm not sure it's possible for me to care less about other people's opinions. Especially some guy who thinks he needs to spell "dick" differently.

Rock on.

I was so waiting for someone's permission. Thank goodness it was yours.

[EC-Bills]

robble robble robble

 

Yeah go on and believe in Al. It's obviously easier than thinking.

[SilverNRed]

Oh yeah. Al Gore has decided to spend his time preaching about a problem that could negatively impact the human race. Just a wee little thing.

And that makes him money grubbing? If he were pursuing the presidency, I'd allow that insight. If he were (like the scumbag Ron Regan) shilling for foreign companies after his political career was over, I'd accept that. If he were working for a pharmaceutical company trying to get drugs approved by using his political influence to trump the scientists (ala Rummey) I'd believe that.

Ronald Reagan was a scumbag and Al Gore is trying to save the human race? When you get a chance, drop me a postcard from whatever wacky alternate reality you live in. Do people greet each other with "goodbye" and say "hello" when they're leaving too?

 

Al Gore was in the White House from 1993 to 2001 but decided to save the world.....now. Sorry if people are a little skeptical about his motives. Oh, and that thing about the skewed data he presents doesn't help either.

 

But since you have trumpeted that what 90% of scientists believe: that the earth is in involved in a general warming progression that could fundamently change our society, since you have declared that junk science, then it must be so. Hah.

Nice try. I've never heard any scientist say the earth isn't in a "general warming progression" but the cause of that progession is what the debate is about. The ice caps are melting on Mars too, so either our emissions are really out of control or there's more to this phenomena than Gore wants us to believe.

 

Not that a consensus in the scientific community confirms anything. There was scientific resistance to AC current, wireless communication, and the earth being round back in the day. And in the 70's, scientists were freaking out about global cooling. The scientific community always agrees on something until they decide to agree on something else.

 

Those self same scientists practicing "junk science" have given you a pretty cushy life. But you should join the portion of the human race that forever believes that their dogma is better than science - well, just because.

Who gave who a cushy life? What?

 

And you're right, nothing says "dogma" like providing links to studies that raise questions about commonly held beliefs.

 

Most consider you a diick. Now you are a stupid diick.

Thank goodness you're here to express what "most" of us think.

[X. Benedict]

The Atlantic Monthly this month has an article by Buffalonian Gregg Easterbrook that includes that Buffalo may be a big winner in the great Global Warmup.

 

There may be an unexplored upside.

 

 

And AD, suggesting that we should be good stewards of the environment is just about the height of

ass ness. Good thing you got taken down a peg.

[Alaska Darin]

The Atlantic Monthly this month has an article by Buffalonian Gregg Easterbrook that includes that Buffalo may be a big winner in the great Global Warmup.

 

There may be an unexplored upside.

And AD, suggesting that we should be good stewards of the environment is just about the height of

ass ness. Good thing you got taken down a peg.

Aw, you know you think I'm a "diick".

[X. Benedict]

Aw, you know you think I'm a "diick".

 

How do you know what I thiink?

[/dev/null]

The Atlantic Monthly this month has an article by Buffalonian Gregg Easterbrook that includes that Buffalo may be a big winner in the great Global Warmup.

 

There may be an unexplored upside.

 

Upside Does that mean Buffalo is also high motor and had a good Wonderlic score?

[X. Benedict]

Upside Does that mean Buffalo is also high motor and had a good Wonderlic score?

Just be sure to get the 40 time before you buy real estate.

[Cheeseburger in Paradise]

Aw, you know you think I'm a "diick".

 

You are a "diick", but you are also somewhat perversely proud of it. Go with your strengths.

[PatPatPatSack]

I was so waiting for someone's permission. Thank goodness it was yours.

 

ah, so much flak, so little time.

 

First off as to the spelling. I dislike using language with people that I would feel comfortable using if I knew them, but might be offensive if I didn't. I figure I am capable of conveying ideas without being a jerk. But the term is just so appropriate in the Igloo Darwin's case that I felt it was right. Spelling it wrong was probably a stupid concession on my part. But I do care and respect what other people - young or old think. Especially those people who feel that profanity is wrong. I'm not one of them, enjoying selective and frequent use of the stuff, but also realize that some people have different sensibilities. My right to freedoms end at your nose. And you likewise to mine.

 

Which is a lead in back to our subject - global warming.

 

Much of your and others bullying and braying is that there ain't no such of a thing. You used a term "junk science" as if you had the corner on exactly what science was, and that as the arbitrator, you could take it and dump it. You bring up commonly held falsehoods like the earth is flat and say that scientists were wrong about that.

 

At one time in history, I'm quite sure you could have found over 90% of the scientific community would agree that the earth was flat, was the center of the solar system, etc. Science is never wrong. That's why I'm pulling Africanized honey bees outta my igloo this Spring.

 

The ancient greeks who pretty much invented the use of the scientific method knew that the earth was round. Among the literate and educated greeks, the only scientists as it were, the idea that the earth was round and the earth revolved around the sun was the more common belief. Since by math, they could prove it. It was only after people with your type abilities got in control of the situation that much of this information was lost.

 

And what was lost, was indeed the scientific method or process.

 

I directly stated that your calling global warming "junk science" as an attempt to portray the whole thing as a fraud - is flat out stupid. Next you'll be telling me the earth is really 10,000 years old, and that man does not share common ancestors with monkeys. Why? Because some people have been wrong befor. Therefore, science in the year 2007 is quite likely, no, absolutely wrong. Unfortunetly this common mantra is beginning to create a whole sub class of humans. Those who deny the power of knowledge. And make stuff up as they go along to fit their personal comfort.

 

Their slogans have even been bandied today and are mentally challenged:

 

"believe Al, it's better than thinking"

 

"Not that a consensus in the scientific community confirms anything. There was scientific resistance to AC current, wireless communication, and the earth being round back in the day. And in the 70's, scientists were freaking out about global cooling. The scientific community always agrees on something until they decide to agree on something else."

 

Jeesh guys, when was it that ignorance became a badge of honor? Was it that these concepts started getting a little hard to wrap your head around after a full night of CSI and Cold Case? Or is it that a couple of failing grades in Earth Science bruised your self esteem? Or is it that the internet gives you a soapbox that allows your inner ignoramus a chance to wail?

 

Believe Al or not, please do the thinking. Thinking involves reading. It involves listening. And it involves the use of logic and the scientific method as means of divining truth. Indeed a consensus in the scientific community does confirm something! Most of the time, it's right. That's what the statistics part of science is doing - fer the love of pete. The scientific community got us to the moon. It got us the internet (Al Gore notwithstanding). It got us hard disk drives and CPU's. These things were not done by one guy bitching about how everyone else is wrong. Nope that ain't it. It was done by teams of people working off of other teams of people. Not assuming the other was wrong, BUT ASSUMING THAT THE OTHER WAS RIGHT.

 

I shout because I love.

 

Why did I pick on Igloo Dan? Because trendy stupidity is the ultimate danger to our republic. And nowhere is this more glaring than in the global warming debate. Allow science to work on the problem. It is ultimately our best hope. What? You disagree that science is the best hope for avoiding a potential disaster? I guess bombing and praying are preferred solutions. Or wishing. That's the ticket. Let's wish it away. No, no no. I got it. Let's pretend that there is no problem. Let's not look for a problem. And let's just continue going about our merry way. Hey guys, let's just go with Alaska Darin. A self professed, I don't care a whit for anyone else. Yeah, you be the leader today. I'm with you, Dude.

 

Just so you don't have to restate your case, AD, I will answer your initial post.

 

You shared a research paper - a product of the "junk science community" that you despise. That paper identifies a pattern and brings some data to the table. It suggests that Global warming is not consistent across the planet. And suggests that anyone studying the phenomenon, go back and factor that into their model. Great. Thanks for bringing that up. Hear hear. Good news if true.

 

BUT - To go off half cocked and start screaming about how Al's got it wrong and see here so does 90% of the folks who devote their lives to it and there isn't any warming, and ....

 

That is what I find indefensible - and just flat stupid.

[Ramius]

Believe Al or not, please do the thinking.

 

funny. why dont you tell Al to do the thinking before he makes a movie about big bad global warming. As for me, i've done the thinking. i'm a scientist. i've read the books, the articles, i've read the historical climate data. Hell, as an undergrad, one of my classes was about global warming. MY little group was responsible for science behind global warming, and the 6 of us came up with 50 pages (fully referenced) on why global warming was NOT caused by humans, but rather by nature.

 

Global warming exists. The earth is getting warmer, But it is NOT due to humans.

[inkman]

Global warming exists. The earth is getting warmer, But it is NOT due to humans.

Does this allevaite us from being enviromentally responsible? I personally don't care all too much about Global warming. I think mother Earth will one day just get tired of us and find an easy way of eliminating the human race. In the meantime, shouldn't we at least pretend to give a rats arse about the environment and show a little consideration.

 

We're buring through fossil fuels at alaming rate and it's only a matter of time before the supply is exhausted. Hopefully at that point in time, we will have more prudent energy technologies that will make our society go.

[molson_golden2002]

Does this allevaite us from being enviromentally responsible? I personally don't care all too much about Global warming. I think mother Earth will one day just get tired of us and find an easy way of eliminating the human race. In the meantime, shouldn't we at least pretend to give a rats arse about the environment and show a little consideration.

 

We're buring through fossil fuels at alaming rate and it's only a matter of time before the supply is exhausted. Hopefully at that point in time, we will have more prudent energy technologies that will make our society go.

True. Some many people just simply want to make environmentalism a bad thing, as if there is too damn much clean air or something.

[Ramius]

Does this allevaite us from being enviromentally responsible? I personally don't care all too much about Global warming. I think mother Earth will one day just get tired of us and find an easy way of eliminating the human race. In the meantime, shouldn't we at least pretend to give a rats arse about the environment and show a little consideration.

 

We're buring through fossil fuels at alaming rate and it's only a matter of time before the supply is exhausted. Hopefully at that point in time, we will have more prudent energy technologies that will make our society go.

 

I didnt say it takes away any responsibility we have of being responsible. I'm more into the science than the actual policy. The earth is warming. when the warming cycle comes to an end, we are going to head into a long ice age. Its how the cycles work. The earth will take care of herself. Humans arrogantly think we can "destroy" the earth, but in the end (of course, this could be millions of years off), if things are shifted too far out of balance, we'll get ours. The earth will take care of herself, and we'll be left by the wayside.

 

Personally, i'd rather see an asteroid or comet smack us than wait for natural balance. Nothing liek kicking back, grabbing a few brews, and watching utter chaos ensue as people try to save and cling to their pathetic little lives.

[meazza]

Does this allevaite us from being enviromentally responsible? I personally don't care all too much about Global warming. I think mother Earth will one day just get tired of us and find an easy way of eliminating the human race. In the meantime, shouldn't we at least pretend to give a rats arse about the environment and show a little consideration.

 

We're buring through fossil fuels at alaming rate and it's only a matter of time before the supply is exhausted. Hopefully at that point in time, we will have more prudent energy technologies that will make our society go.

 

Obviously even if we aren't responsible for the Earth's warming as a whole, it's still a pretty sh------- life when we are covered with smog and toxic fumes.

 

As if total destruction is the only reason we need to stop polluting.

 

Obviously it takes a disaster before people even start giving a sh--.

[DC Tom]

Does this allevaite us from being enviromentally responsible? I personally don't care all too much about Global warming. I think mother Earth will one day just get tired of us and find an easy way of eliminating the human race. In the meantime, shouldn't we at least pretend to give a rats arse about the environment and show a little consideration.

 

We're buring through fossil fuels at alaming rate and it's only a matter of time before the supply is exhausted. Hopefully at that point in time, we will have more prudent energy technologies that will make our society go.

 

Environmental responsibility and global warming are two different issues. Related, possibly. But different.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Environmental responsibility and global warming are two different issues. Related, possibly. But different.

 

Isn't that the standard response to ANYONE who questions the Global Warming myth?

 

I have a friend who's a wiccan and a real enviro-whackjob. She insists that it would be BETTER to move everybody to locally grown organic food and letting billions starve because of it because "IT WOULD BE BETTER FOR THE RACE AS A WHOLE." The same could be said for GW freaks. Their worldview is often "Well, it's better to cause TRILLIONS of dollars of economic devastation now in the hopes of forestalling global warming." My retort is: Is it better to destroy what you KNOW you have for the sake of something you do NOT know will happen? They almost always answer yes.

 

Well, I ended up calling her Mrs. Goebbels. She didn't much care for that, but that's just how insane some enviros are. They think it's preferable to cause untold human suffering out of fear of technologies, economics, politics, whatever. It's obscene that people like these aren't called out for such radical, extreme and dangerous ideas.

[X. Benedict]

I tend to believe that there is global warming/greenhouse effect happening, but I don't know for sure.

I hope we can err on the side of caution.

 

But once you get to the point were there this stuff is unfalsifiable then you are beyond data and

should call people diicks.

[PatPatPatSack]

I'm more into the science than the actual policy.

 

Nothing liek kicking back, grabbing a few brews, and watching utter chaos ensue as people try to save and cling to their pathetic little lives.

 

 

Ouch. OK, we'll keep you away from policy decisions then!

 

Funny how the anti-Al crowd (dindt say I was pro-Al) has such a calloused and outspoken disregard for fellow man.

 

Our society has gotten here today precisely because of a joint effort against common threats, against common enemies, and working toward mutual benefits. Because life is so cushy today and we are so independent thinking, we have lost touch with the sense of community that has gotten us here.

 

But it hasn't gone away. We exist on the basis of others. Try as you might think you can do as you damn well please, that is not true. The "pull yourself up from your own bootstrap mentality is a great one". But don't forget for a minute that you have quite a few that put you here in the first place and quite a few more that keep you here.

 

My family, all college educated, working, and raising families is here today because my grandfather had something to eat during the depression. He didnt work for over 10 years. Meantime the government/welfare fed, clothed, and educated the rest of the family. This family continues and will continue for many years. My responsibilities are to pay back, and to salt away for future generations. That means both to my family, country, and fellow man.

 

To do less is not a crime in our present society. But to do less means someone else has to do more. Able bodied men (as are many of us) are expected to do more.

 

But not only is it important for me to do more, it is important to challenge others to do as well. I'll try to walk the walk AND talk the talk. Hopefully you will too.

 

but you can be sure I am not one to encourage others to wallow in ignorance or uncaring.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Ouch. OK, we'll keep you away from policy decisions then!

 

Funny how the anti-Al crowd (dindt say I was pro-Al) has such a calloused and outspoken disregard for fellow man.

 

Our society has gotten here today precisely because of a joint effort against common threats, against common enemies, and working toward mutual benefits. Because life is so cushy today and we are so independent thinking, we have lost touch with the sense of community that has gotten us here.

 

But it hasn't gone away. We exist on the basis of others. Try as you might think you can do as you damn well please, that is not true. The "pull yourself up from your own bootstrap mentality is a great one". But don't forget for a minute that you have quite a few that put you here in the first place and quite a few more that keep you here.

 

My family, all college educated, working, and raising families is here today because my grandfather had something to eat during the depression. He didnt work for over 10 years. Meantime the government/welfare fed, clothed, and educated the rest of the family. This family continues and will continue for many years. My responsibilities are to pay back, and to salt away for future generations. That means both to my family, country, and fellow man.

 

To do less is not a crime in our present society. But to do less means someone else has to do more. Able bodied men (as are many of us) are expected to do more.

 

But not only is it important for me to do more, it is important to challenge others to do as well. I'll try to walk the walk AND talk the talk. Hopefully you will too.

 

but you can be sure I am not one to encourage others to wallow in ignorance or uncaring.

 

Why "walk the walk and talk the talk" about something that NO ONE has consensus on? Yes, they all agree there is warming. They do NOT all agree on why.

 

If you kill American business in the name of enforcing ridiculous co2 caps, then you're only further empowering the nations who won't enforce to make greater progress in weakening our competitive advantage.

 

Global warming is a liberal "guilt" issue, nothing more, nothing less. I'm supposed to feel guilty for driving a car. It's the same as the inane "slavery reparations" argument.

[Alaska Darin]

ah, so much flak, so little time.

 

First off as to the spelling. I dislike using language with people that I would feel comfortable using if I knew them, but might be offensive if I didn't. I figure I am capable of conveying ideas without being a jerk. But the term is just so appropriate in the Igloo Darwin's case that I felt it was right. Spelling it wrong was probably a stupid concession on my part. But I do care and respect what other people - young or old think. Especially those people who feel that profanity is wrong. I'm not one of them, enjoying selective and frequent use of the stuff, but also realize that some people have different sensibilities. My right to freedoms end at your nose. And you likewise to mine.

An incredibly dumb explanation, as if using an extra "i" somehow absolves you in the community because YOUR conscience feels better. You've got the balls of a gnat.

Which is a lead in back to our subject - global warming.

 

Much of your and others bullying and braying is that there ain't no such of a thing. You used a term "junk science" as if you had the corner on exactly what science was, and that as the arbitrator, you could take it and dump it. You bring up commonly held falsehoods like the earth is flat and say that scientists were wrong about that.

Well, I could bring up even further science because there is plenty of it. How about:

 

New York City and Albany. They're what, 200 miles apart? Globally, that's a really small number. Yet NY City's temperature has risen 5 degrees since the early 1800s, but Albany's has dropped. Their CO2 atmosphere is for all purposes the same. Is THIS an example of good science for global warming? (Source: USHCN) I'm sure the difference in temperature has almost nothing to do with NYC's increase in population from 120K to over 9 MILLION and the trillions of tons of concrete and superstructures built since to support them. Nope. Got to be global warming. (McKendry: Applied Climatology)

 

The Chinese stated that Shanghai alone rose over 1 degree Celcius in the last 20 years alone. That's more than total GW of the PLANET for the last CENTURY. Probably has nothing to do with population explosion and construction, coupled with better measurement apparatus. Nah. Global Warming.

 

The Global Warming "Scientists" use what amounts to a "fudge factor" to explain away urbanization. That's pretty much the equivalent of Holcomb's Arm's 3.5 value.

 

How about the fact that "climatologists" can't predict El Ninos with any certainty but Global Warming "could" lead to the polar ice caps in Greenland melting in 1000 years? That's right, they can't accurately forecast for a known phenomenon that occurs 23-5 times a century for THOUSANDS of YEARS but we're supposed to believe there's a catastrophic event could be coming over a period TEN TIMES longer.

 

It's also quite interesting that most Global Warming proponents use charts and measures from 1930 on to prove their point. Try and find out why they don't go back 100 years further. Couldn't be that it throws a monkey wrench into the whole thing, could it?

 

How right was the scientific and enviro community on DDT? To the point that they got the US to use their bully pulpit of "we'll withhold foriegn aid if you don't stop using it!" Fully backed by the wackos. Of course, 50 MILLION people died in third world countries and malaria is on the way back in force. But at least that evil (since proven otherwise) DDT isn't out there anymore.

 

What about Kilimanjaro? "It's rapidly melting!" (Global Warming). Of course it's been happening since the 1800s and can pretty much be traced to the deforestation at the bottom of the mountain. But it's alot easier to get money from people if it's some boogie man that the media can trumpet from the top of Mt Panic Induction.

 

"The sea level is rising because of global warming!" Of course it has been for 6000 years, at an attributable rate for each 100 year period, including the "Global Warming" period.

 

"MORE CATASTROPHIC WEATHER CONDITIONS BECAUSE OF GLOBAL WARMING!"

 

US hurricane strikes:

1900-1909: 16

1910-1919: 19

1920-1929: 15

1930-1939: 17

1940-1949: 23

1950-1959: 18

1960-1969: 15

1970-1979: 12

1980-1989: 16

1990-1999: 14

2000-2006: 9

 

The average per decade is 17.7 (source: NHC)

 

"No long terms trends evident in either tropical or extratropical storms and no systematic changes in the frequency of tornadoes, thunder days, or hail." (source: IPCC "Climate Change" 2001)

 

"Overall there is no evidence that extreme weather events or climate variability has increased in a global sense, throughout the twentieth century." (Source: IPCC "Climate Change" 1995)

 

THE GLACIERS ARE MELTING!

 

"There is no obvious common GLOBAL trend of increasing glacial melt in recent years" (Brathwaite. "Progress in Physical Geography" 2002). There are nearly 170 THOUSAND glaciers on the planet, barely a third of which are actually catalogued. An insignificant number are actually studied on a regular basis, yet the Global Warming folks would have us believe that not only are they melting at a rapid rate, but they are also causing catastrophic damage to other facets of the environment at the same time.

 

"A MILLION SPECIES WILL BE EXTINCT BY 2000" (Myers)

"HALF OF ALL SPECIES WILL BE EXTINCT BY 2000" (Ehrlich)

 

These weren't science. They were opinion without significant fact. Much like the rest of "global warming." The scientific community doesn't have a true grasp on the actual number of species on the planet and can only guestimate (it's so inaccurate that I've seen numbers from 3 million to over 100 million). Yet these two were quick to trumpet that a significant number (Myers) or a PREPOSTEROUS number would be completely removed in less than a single generation. It's showmanship that Gore and his followers continue to this day, with folks like you buying hook, line, and sinker.

 

Be sure to let me know when the first "double blind" global warming study concludes, will you?

 

The ancient greeks who pretty much invented the use of the scientific method knew that the earth was round. Among the literate and educated greeks, the only scientists as it were, the idea that the earth was round and the earth revolved around the sun was the more common belief. Since by math, they could prove it. It was only after people with your type abilities got in control of the situation that much of this information was lost.

People with "my type of abilities?" What would that be, oh guy who doesn't know me at all? Would that be the ability to look at the trend of making huge amounts of money by scaring the hell out of the populous? "Global Warming" is simply another "Nuclear Winter", "Breast Implants", "Cold War" or "War on Terror". Nothing more.

And what was lost, was indeed the scientific method or process.

 

I directly stated that your calling global warming "junk science" as an attempt to portray the whole thing as a fraud - is flat out stupid. Next you'll be telling me the earth is really 10,000 years old, and that man does not share common ancestors with monkeys. Why? Because some people have been wrong befor. Therefore, science in the year 2007 is quite likely, no, absolutely wrong. Unfortunetly this common mantra is beginning to create a whole sub class of humans. Those who deny the power of knowledge. And make stuff up as they go along to fit their personal comfort.

Ah, the old "attack the messenger" thing. I've stated nothing about those things and your attempt to put words in my mouth shows the complete weakness of your "argument."

 

"believe Al, it's better than thinking"

 

"Not that a consensus in the scientific community confirms anything. There was scientific resistance to AC current, wireless communication, and the earth being round back in the day. And in the 70's, scientists were freaking out about global cooling. The scientific community always agrees on something until they decide to agree on something else."

 

Jeesh guys, when was it that ignorance became a badge of honor? Was it that these concepts started getting a little hard to wrap your head around after a full night of CSI and Cold Case? Or is it that a couple of failing grades in Earth Science bruised your self esteem? Or is it that the internet gives you a soapbox that allows your inner ignoramus a chance to wail?

 

Believe Al or not, please do the thinking. Thinking involves reading. It involves listening. And it involves the use of logic and the scientific method as means of divining truth. Indeed a consensus in the scientific community does confirm something! Most of the time, it's right. That's what the statistics part of science is doing - fer the love of pete. The scientific community got us to the moon. It got us the internet (Al Gore notwithstanding). It got us hard disk drives and CPU's. These things were not done by one guy bitching about how everyone else is wrong. Nope that ain't it. It was done by teams of people working off of other teams of people. Not assuming the other was wrong, BUT ASSUMING THAT THE OTHER WAS RIGHT.

 

I shout because I love.

 

Why did I pick on Igloo Dan? Because trendy stupidity is the ultimate danger to our republic. And nowhere is this more glaring than in the global warming debate. Allow science to work on the problem. It is ultimately our best hope. What? You disagree that science is the best hope for avoiding a potential disaster? I guess bombing and praying are preferred solutions. Or wishing. That's the ticket. Let's wish it away. No, no no. I got it. Let's pretend that there is no problem. Let's not look for a problem. And let's just continue going about our merry way. Hey guys, let's just go with Alaska Darin. A self professed, I don't care a whit for anyone else. Yeah, you be the leader today. I'm with you, Dude.

 

Just so you don't have to restate your case, AD, I will answer your initial post.

 

You shared a research paper - a product of the "junk science community" that you despise. That paper identifies a pattern and brings some data to the table. It suggests that Global warming is not consistent across the planet. And suggests that anyone studying the phenomenon, go back and factor that into their model. Great. Thanks for bringing that up. Hear hear. Good news if true.

 

BUT - To go off half cocked and start screaming about how Al's got it wrong and see here so does 90% of the folks who devote their lives to it and there isn't any warming, and ....

 

That is what I find indefensible - and just flat stupid.

Mostly because you don't have any clue what you're talking about. Once again, I agree with the environmentalists that we do a terrible job of stewarding the planet.

 

And I never said anything about the junk science "community", only that Global Warming is "junk science". Because it is. I also didn't share one research paper. There was more there than that. Thanks for bringing up the Greeks, too. I'm sure their science had a bit less little influence from lobbyists and fund raisers.

 

As far as "not caring a whit" (whatever the fukk that is), you're wrong. I simply don't care what your opinion of me is. Try and figure out the difference.

[PatPatPatSack]

Why "walk the walk and talk the talk" about something that NO ONE has consensus on? Yes, they all agree there is warming. They do NOT all agree on why.

 

If you kill American business in the name of enforcing ridiculous co2 caps, then you're only further empowering the nations who won't enforce to make greater progress in weakening our competitive advantage.

 

Global warming is a liberal "guilt" issue, nothing more, nothing less. I'm supposed to feel guilty for driving a car. It's the same as the inane "slavery reparations" argument.

 

Thanks for the reply. I shifted gears a bit and guess I left you in the dust. My bad.

 

In reference to walking and talking, I meant our collective responsibility to fellow man. I was noting the rather calloused attitudes of two posters who both felt that they cared nothing about another opinion and the mental picture of watching humanity perish in the flames. Maybe I am putting words in the mouths, but I would not mind be called out about that. And being reassured that indeed, our responsibility to fellow man DID mean a great deal. Hope I'm wrong.

 

What I referred to was not only being concerned, but acting concerned.

 

As to Kyoto accords or CO2 emissions, I do not propose those as solutions - or not. I'd rather get agreement on a problem and a willingness to solve it. This thread is NOT about policy.

 

But it's about stupidness. Like saying GW is a liberal guilt issue. Nope. GW is a thing. And it's either happening or it's not. It's a yes or no proposition. It's true or it's false. It's not hysteria, it's not white man's burden. It's not Al Gore's public service announcement.

 

And what exactly does Liberal Guilt Issue mean? Just tell me: Is the planet warming, cooling, or staying the same. And by how much? And what is the rate of change? Could this be any simpler?

 

You guys have yet to put one good argument on the table. Not one. Shows the depth of your thinking.

[Joey Balls]

Oh yeah. Al Gore has decided to spend his time preaching about a problem that could negatively impact the human race. Just a wee little thing.

And that makes him money grubbing? If he were pursuing the presidency, I'd allow that insight. If he were (like the scumbag Ron Regan) shilling for foreign companies after his political career was over, I'd accept that. If he were working for a pharmaceutical company trying to get drugs approved by using his political influence to trump the scientists (ala Rummey) I'd believe that.

 

But since you have trumpeted that what 90% of scientists believe: that the earth is in involved in a general warming progression that could fundamently change our society, since you have declared that junk science, then it must be so. Hah.

 

Your opinions on the Bills are entertaining. Your pompous political posturing in the face of real scientists who do this for a living; is just plain retarded.

 

The boy who said the emperor had no clothes was just in it for the money too.

 

Those self same scientists practicing "junk science" have given you a pretty cushy life. But you should join the portion of the human race that forever believes that their dogma is better than science - well, just because.

 

Most consider you a diick. Now you are a stupid diick.

 

Rock on.

 

 

 

BRAVO! BRAVO! ENCORE!

[Alaska Darin]

BRAVO! BRAVO! ENCORE!

How unpredictable. Another liberal ass licking from Joey. Now tell everyone how progressive and intellectual you are while wallowing in the political Utopia of Buffalo.

[Joey Balls]

How unpredictable. Another liberal ass licking from Joey. Now tell everyone how progressive and intellectual you are while wallowing in the political Utopia of Buffalo.

 

 

Wake up Potsie! He's kicking your ass up and down the court.

[erynthered]

How unpredictable. Another liberal ass licking from Joey. Now tell everyone how progressive and intellectual you are while wallowing in the political Utopia of Buffalo.

 

 

Oh, please. Personal attacks are unproductive. Please provide a link to his ass licking. There's someone that views this board that needs a link to support such ass licking.

[X. Benedict]

Wake up Potsie! He's kicking your ass up and down the court.

 

 

This kind of sh-- is starting to piss me off.

 

Your soul is flush with confirmation bias - it must feel great, eh?

[erynthered]

This kind of sh-- is starting to piss me off.

 

 

I agree, that would be enough to kick my brothers ass, for touching my bottle of Jameson.