Big name free agents

[inkman]

I've been mulling this over for quite while now and it just seems like the impact from big name FA's isn't great, save a franchise type player. Guys that come to mind that really made a difference:

 

Reggie White: He was the first huge free agent to really change a teams fortunes.

 

Drew Brees: The entire fortunes of a franchise were changed the minute he set foot under center. (although I won't discount the impact of Bush and Colston)

 

Deion Sanders: Wherever he went, minus Washington, he made offenses gameplan around his defence.

 

 

I know their are others and I call to my fellow posters to nominate and debate what "big name" free agents really made a difference. I want to exclude "diamond in the rough" types because these are not the focus of what many Bills fans are calling for.

[2003Contenders]

I would say that some of the acquisitions that we made on defense in the off-season between 2002 and 2003: TKO, Sam Adams, Lawyer Milloy -- made a difference in elevating the defense from the bottom of the league to #2. Of course, Bledsoe and the offense were so bad we still finished with a 6-10 record.

[RuntheDamnBall]

I've been mulling this over for quite while now and it just seems like the impact from big name FA's isn't great, save a franchise type player. Guys that come to mind that really made a difference:

 

Reggie White: He was the first huge free agent to really change a teams fortunes.

 

Drew Brees: The entire fortunes of a franchise were changed the minute he set foot under center. (although I won't discount the impact of Bush and Colston)

 

Deion Sanders: Wherever he went, minus Washington, he made offenses gameplan around his defence.

I know their are others and I call to my fellow posters to nominate and debate what "big name" free agents really made a difference. I want to exclude "diamond in the rough" types because these are not the focus of what many Bills fans are calling for.

Bryce Paup and Chris Spielman both come to mind. These guys were both animals for the Bills for a bit.

 

I hate to say it, but for a brief while, Flutie. Trent Green. Rodney Harrison. Priest Holmes.

 

It is interesting that you see a lot of guys fail, get hurt, or fail to put up as good numbers with their new teams after signing the fat contract. It seems like there are a lot of reasons this could happen:

1) Their previous system was ideally suited to their talents / Their new system is not

2) Pressing too hard to prove their newly-bestowed worth

3) Getting comfortable now that they've made their millions

4) The team signing them was a poor team looking to make a splash that still had lots of problems (read: anyone who has signed with the Arizona Cardinals)

 

And last, because it needs to be said, lord do I hate Deion Sanders.

[inkman]

I would say that some of the acquisitions that we made on defense in the off-season between 2002 and 2003: TKO, Sam Adams, Lawyer Milloy -- made a difference in elevating the defense from the bottom of the league to #2. Of course, Bledsoe and the offense were so bad we still finished with a 6-10 record.

As far as the Bills were concerned Takeo was a big name signing, perhaps not everywhere though. Sam Adams was somewhat under the radar and Milloy was nice (considering Wire was going to start) but not very big names league wide. Their impact was noticeable but we still had a losing team for the majority of the time they were here.

[ricojes]

I've been mulling this over for quite while now and it just seems like the impact from big name FA's isn't great, save a franchise type player. Guys that come to mind that really made a difference:

 

Reggie White: He was the first huge free agent to really change a teams fortunes.

 

Drew Brees: The entire fortunes of a franchise were changed the minute he set foot under center. (although I won't discount the impact of Bush and Colston)

 

Deion Sanders: Wherever he went, minus Washington, he made offenses gameplan around his defence.

I know their are others and I call to my fellow posters to nominate and debate what "big name" free agents really made a difference. I want to exclude "diamond in the rough" types because these are not the focus of what many Bills fans are calling for.

Even though I hate the Steelers, I guess Jerome Bettis would be a good one.

 

Echoing my beginning statement from above, Corey Dillon was a nice pick up for the Patsies.

 

Stephen Davis & Jake Delhomme made an impact on their SB run.

 

Being the homer that I am, Rian Lindell was a nice pick up. Unfortunately he hasn't had enough game winning opportunities.

 

That's about all that jumps out at me, in fact I can name more FA busts than good ones.

[inkman]

And last, because it needs to be said, lord do I hate Deion Sanders.

Dude covered like a blanket, a sissified one, but a blanket none-the-less.

[RuntheDamnBall]

Even though I hate the Steelers, I guess Jerome Bettis would be a good one.

 

Echoing my beginning statement from above, Corey Dillon was a nice pick up for the Patsies.

 

Stephen Davis & Jake Delhomme made an impact on their SB run.

 

Being the homer that I am, Rian Lindell was a nice pick up. Unfortunately he hasn't had enough game winning opportunities.

 

That's about all that jumps out at me, in fact I can name more FA busts than good ones.

Bettis and Dillon were trades.

[Tcali]

I would say that some of the acquisitions that we made on defense in the off-season between 2002 and 2003: TKO, Sam Adams, Lawyer Milloy -- made a difference in elevating the defense from the bottom of the league to #2. Of course, Bledsoe and the offense were so bad we still finished with a 6-10 record.

#2 LOL--prime example of how statistics can be misleading. That was an average D that could never stop anybody when it counted or put any pressure on anybody when it counted(Schobel)

[stuckincincy]

I've been mulling this over for quite while now and it just seems like the impact from big name FA's isn't great, save a franchise type player. Guys that come to mind that really made a difference:

 

Just an impression..no data...but it seems there is less "big" FA movement than years past.

[silvermike]

There's also an important difference between big name free agents, and free agents who become big names. When the Panthers added Jake Delhomme, he was a scrub who couldn't earn a roster spot with the Saints. This is a rough measure, but you can say "big name, free agent successes" are guys who made the pro bowl with one team, signed somewhere else, and did it again.

 

So, looking at the 2006 Pro Bowl Roster:

AFC:

QB:Brady (drafted), Palmer (drafted) Rivers (drafted)

RB:Tomlinson (drafted), Johnson (drafted), Parker (UDFA), Neal (UFA)

WR: A. Johnson (drafted), C. Johnson (drafted), Harrison (drafted), Wayne (drafted)

TE: Gates (UDFA), Gonzalez (drafted)

OT: Ogden (drafted), Glenn (drafted), McNeill (drafted) Anderson (drafted)

OG: Fanacea, Shields, Waters (all drafted)

C: Saturday (UDFA), Hardwick (drafted)

 

One unit down, and it's looking pretty unlikely that you can nab anyone worthwhile in FA. Lorenzo Neal is the only one, and he's a fullback!

 

DL: Taylor (drafted), Schobel (drafted) , Burgess (UFA, no pro bowls with any other team.)

Seymour (drafted) Williams (drafted), Hampton (drafted)

LB: A. Thomas (drafted), Merriman (drafted), Suggs (drafted), Z. Thomas (drafted), Lewis (drafted), Al Wilson (drafted)

DB: Bailey (traded), McAllister (drafted), Mathis (drafted), Polamalu (drafted), Reed (drafted), Lynch (FA)

 

Okay, we're up to two, John Lynch and Lorenzo Neal. And one's a fullback. You might be able to put the traded Bailey in there, I guess.

 

I'll work on the NFC later on. Now, I'm not saying that there's no value in a player you get from FA who doesn't make it to the Pro Bowl, but your team's stars are more than likely going to be your draft picks, at least so far.

[inkman]

Very good analysis. I wouldn't have thought to break it down as such. Thanks.

 

I don't think this is just a current trend. It really seems like FA's don't have that much of an impact unless you can land a guy like Brees. Who's this years Brees, Freeney? He seems more likely to flounder if he leaves but that is just a personal opinion. Steinbach? When has a guard made that much of a difference?

[eball]

#2 LOL--prime example of how statistics can be misleading. That was an average D that could never stop anybody when it counted or put any pressure on anybody when it counted(Schobel)

Bingo. That defense made its' living off of bad QBs and bad offenses. Put a competent offense across the LOS and they became remarkably average.

[Dibs]

There's also an important difference between big name free agents, and free agents who become big names. When the Panthers added Jake Delhomme, he was a scrub who couldn't earn a roster spot with the Saints. This is a rough measure, but you can say "big name, free agent successes" are guys who made the pro bowl with one team, signed somewhere else, and did it again.

 

So, looking at the 2006 Pro Bowl Roster:

AFC:

QB:Brady (drafted), Palmer (drafted) Rivers (drafted)

RB:Tomlinson (drafted), Johnson (drafted), Parker (UDFA), Neal (UFA)

WR: A. Johnson (drafted), C. Johnson (drafted), Harrison (drafted), Wayne (drafted)

TE: Gates (UDFA), Gonzalez (drafted)

OT: Ogden (drafted), Glenn (drafted), McNeill (drafted) Anderson (drafted)

OG: Fanacea, Shields, Waters (all drafted)

C: Saturday (UDFA), Hardwick (drafted)

 

One unit down, and it's looking pretty unlikely that you can nab anyone worthwhile in FA. Lorenzo Neal is the only one, and he's a fullback!

 

DL: Taylor (drafted), Schobel (drafted) , Burgess (UFA, no pro bowls with any other team.)

Seymour (drafted) Williams (drafted), Hampton (drafted)

LB: A. Thomas (drafted), Merriman (drafted), Suggs (drafted), Z. Thomas (drafted), Lewis (drafted), Al Wilson (drafted)

DB: Bailey (traded), McAllister (drafted), Mathis (drafted), Polamalu (drafted), Reed (drafted), Lynch (FA)

 

Okay, we're up to two, John Lynch and Lorenzo Neal. And one's a fullback. You might be able to put the traded Bailey in there, I guess.

 

I'll work on the NFC later on. Now, I'm not saying that there's no value in a player you get from FA who doesn't make it to the Pro Bowl, but your team's stars are more than likely going to be your draft picks, at least so far.

Good way of looking at it.

I've always felt the FA market is a bit like the draft.....hit & miss and you usually don't know which until the player has played at least 2 full seasons with the new team. This is why I like up&comer FAs. The money level is lower.....the expectations are lower.....the upper potential is greater.....and the potential disappointment is lower. There is nothing worse than forking out top dollar for a star who ends up playing like a basic starter.

[silvermike]

I think a good general principle is to look for home runs in the draft, and role players in free agency. If you need a #2 WR, a guard, a rotation DT, maybe a nickelback - you can find one in free agency. You can definitely upgrade your depth. But when you're looking for someone to lead, draft those guys, and keep them around. Looking at the Bills from that perspective, you figure that, well, #2 WR, guard, rotation DT and nickelback should be our top free agent priorities. Nickelback would be if we decide to either keep Nate or figure that McGee/Youboty is starting caliber. If there's not a #1 CB on this team without Nate you've gotta draft one. If you're done with Willis, you gotta draft a new guy. If Fletcher is out, you gotta replace him in the draft.

[Bill from NYC]

A case could be made for Charles Haley helping Dallas a ton.

[ganesh]

Even though I hate the Steelers, I guess Jerome Bettis would be a good one.

 

Echoing my beginning statement from above, Corey Dillon was a nice pick up for the Patsies.

 

Stephen Davis & Jake Delhomme made an impact on their SB run.

 

Being the homer that I am, Rian Lindell was a nice pick up. Unfortunately he hasn't had enough game winning opportunities.

 

That's about all that jumps out at me, in fact I can name more FA busts than good ones.

 

I think Bettis and Dillon came to their new teams via Trade...not FA...

[ganesh]

A case could be made for Charles Haley helping Dallas a ton.

 

Bill,

 

Your answer brings up a important point with the original intent of this thread...I think since FA has happened there has actually been very few "already superstar" players having an impact on their new teams....Most of the teams superstars have come from the teams drafts, or by plucking some unknown or underachieving player from another team and making him a super star.

 

I think all Free Agency has done is provided a very good vehicle for players to make a one time chance to get some real big money to go to another team. I don't think it in itself has helped teams be more successful.

[Bill from NYC]

Bill,

 

Your answer brings up a important point with the original intent of this thread...I think since FA has happened there has actually been very few "already superstar" players having an impact on their new teams....Most of the teams superstars have come from the teams drafts, or by plucking some unknown or underachieving player from another team and making him a super star.

 

I think all Free Agency has done is provided a very good vehicle for players to make a one time chance to get some real big money to go to another team. I don't think it in itself has helped teams be more successful.

 

I mostly agree. The draft has always been the most important factor in building a team, even more today with the shrinking number of good UFAs.

In the past, guys like Paup and Big Ted made a huge impact on the Bills. They kept them in games despite the team having a poor offense.

Still, at the end of the day, the draft IS the most important way to build a football team.

[inkman]

...the draft IS the most important way to build a football team.

Thus the original intent of this thread. Free agents can fill holes but VERY rarely do they change the fortunes of a franchise.

[obie_wan]

I mostly agree. The draft has always been the most important factor in building a team, even more today with the shrinking number of good UFAs.

In the past, guys like Paup and Big Ted made a huge impact on the Bills. They kept them in games despite the team having a poor offense.

Still, at the end of the day, the draft IS the most important way to build a football team.

 

You are correct.

 

And with Teflon Tom screwing the pooch on day 2 of the draft for 5 years (that's over 20 picks wasted) (and day 1 for several years) the Bills have no depth and few superstars.

 

Marv needs to make all the picks count again in 2007.