Casey D Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 The overall lack of talent after 5 years with TD at the helm is amazing. The new group had to rework the D in the off-season, and even though it has weaknesses, it seems to be going in the right direction and is young and should get better. Because no team has unlimited resources, little was done to the offense in the off-season, under the concept that a better defense can keep you in games(a concept I agree with). But the talent on offense is horrendous. The O-line is putrid after years of neglect, and only an undrafted player, Peters, is any better than average. Most of the line is well below average. Lee Evans is a stud, but what else is at the skill positions. Everett is nothing at TE, Parrish is mostly invisible, McGahee is an OK back, but nothing more than that and certainly not a superstar. Losman is horrid, perhaps in large part due to the line but he certainly in not making "something out of nothing" as you would hope if he had above average potential. 5 years of utter incompetence is what you have to conclude we got from TD given the talent level on this team. And it's tough on Levy/Jauron because everyone is tired of this being a horrible team, and yet it is hard to fix this quickly. I mean TD seems like a pretty bright guy and well regarded, how did this get so screwed up as compared to Polian and Butler? It seems unreal to me how far this franchise was allowed to sink...CD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 Levy has been around long enough that he should have known how to fix it in one year, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubes Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 Nobody with a brain expected Levy and Jauron to fix this right away. They inherited a mess on offense and defense, but a quality special teams unit. They had holes everywhere. You had to know that this would be a two or three year effort. Start plugging the holes one year, plug some more the second year and watch the first group mature. In the third year, you finish plugging the holes while the first two groups mature into solid players. There were that many holes to fill. I think they're doing a pretty decent job on defense so far, and that seems to have been the focus this first year. We're still pretty lousy at stopping the run and stopping teams at the end of games, but it's still the first year of the plan and so far I'm not disappointed in the effort. I think they might have underestimated the complete mess that is our offense, and I also think they ended up not getting their money's worth out of the stiffs they brought in for the line. Fowler will probably be serviceable, and Peters is decent, but beyond that we have, basically, nothing for a line. I expect this offseason we will see a focus on bringing in some better quality offensive linemen in free agency and a focus on offensive and defensive linemen in the draft. But I wouldn't expect more than one big offensive lineman FA signing, which means we still are two good offensive linemen away from a decent line. Those we draft next year will need at least a year to develop. A lot depends on if Pennington (or Butler) can prove by the end of the year that they belong in the league, if not on the starting line. Even if we focus 100% of our off-season efforts (FA and draft) on offensive linemen, we're still talking a couple of years to see that effort bear fruit. It sucks, but unfortunately that's the way it is, and we have to deal with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey D Posted November 13, 2006 Author Share Posted November 13, 2006 Nobody with a brain expected Levy and Jauron to fix this right away. They inherited a mess on offense and defense, but a quality special teams unit. They had holes everywhere. You had to know that this would be a two or three year effort. Start plugging the holes one year, plug some more the second year and watch the first group mature. In the third year, you finish plugging the holes while the first two groups mature into solid players. There were that many holes to fill. I think they're doing a pretty decent job on defense so far, and that seems to have been the focus this first year. We're still pretty lousy at stopping the run and stopping teams at the end of games, but it's still the first year of the plan and so far I'm not disappointed in the effort. I think they might have underestimated the complete mess that is our offense, and I also think they ended up not getting their money's worth out of the stiffs they brought in for the line. Fowler will probably be serviceable, and Peters is decent, but beyond that we have, basically, nothing for a line. I expect this offseason we will see a focus on bringing in some better quality offensive linemen in free agency and a focus on offensive and defensive linemen in the draft. But I wouldn't expect more than one big offensive lineman FA signing, which means we still are two good offensive linemen away from a decent line. Those we draft next year will need at least a year to develop. A lot depends on if Pennington (or Butler) can prove by the end of the year that they belong in the league, if not on the starting line. Even if we focus 100% of our off-season efforts (FA and draft) on offensive linemen, we're still talking a couple of years to see that effort bear fruit. It sucks, but unfortunately that's the way it is, and we have to deal with it. 835378[/snapback] Agree. I just was hoping the hole was not as deep as it is...CD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordio Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 Actually if you really want to go find out where it started to go wrong was Butler's last draft here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tennesseeboy Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 Nobody with a brain expected Levy and Jauron to fix this right away. They inherited a mess on offense and defense, but a quality special teams unit. They had holes everywhere. You had to know that this would be a two or three year effort. Start plugging the holes one year, plug some more the second year and watch the first group mature. In the third year, you finish plugging the holes while the first two groups mature into solid players. There were that many holes to fill. I think they're doing a pretty decent job on defense so far, and that seems to have been the focus this first year. We're still pretty lousy at stopping the run and stopping teams at the end of games, but it's still the first year of the plan and so far I'm not disappointed in the effort. I think they might have underestimated the complete mess that is our offense, and I also think they ended up not getting their money's worth out of the stiffs they brought in for the line. Fowler will probably be serviceable, and Peters is decent, but beyond that we have, basically, nothing for a line. I expect this offseason we will see a focus on bringing in some better quality offensive linemen in free agency and a focus on offensive and defensive linemen in the draft. But I wouldn't expect more than one big offensive lineman FA signing, which means we still are two good offensive linemen away from a decent line. Those we draft next year will need at least a year to develop. A lot depends on if Pennington (or Butler) can prove by the end of the year that they belong in the league, if not on the starting line. Even if we focus 100% of our off-season efforts (FA and draft) on offensive linemen, we're still talking a couple of years to see that effort bear fruit. It sucks, but unfortunately that's the way it is, and we have to deal with it. 835378[/snapback] Well put. I agree with the exception that I could see us addressing the offensive line this season and being competitive next season. I'm hoping in this that JP develops and I'm pretty satisfied that willis and a-train will be good runners. Maybe I'm overly optimistic, but I think on the whole DJ and ML have done a very good job to date. A stud free agent, a couple of good draft picks, and our line problem will be solved. This is a painful season, but I see a light at the end of the tunnel, to coin a phrase! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokinandjokin Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 The overall lack of talent after 5 years with TD at the helm is amazing. The new group had to rework the D in the off-season, and even though it has weaknesses, it seems to be going in the right direction and is young and should get better. Because no team has unlimited resources, little was done to the offense in the off-season, under the concept that a better defense can keep you in games(a concept I agree with). But the talent on offense is horrendous. The O-line is putrid after years of neglect, and only an undrafted player, Peters, is any better than average. Most of the line is well below average. Lee Evans is a stud, but what else is at the skill positions. Everett is nothing at TE, Parrish is mostly invisible, McGahee is an OK back, but nothing more than that and certainly not a superstar. Losman is horrid, perhaps in large part due to the line but he certainly in not making "something out of nothing" as you would hope if he had above average potential. 5 years of utter incompetence is what you have to conclude we got from TD given the talent level on this team. And it's tough on Levy/Jauron because everyone is tired of this being a horrible team, and yet it is hard to fix this quickly. I mean TD seems like a pretty bright guy and well regarded, how did this get so screwed up as compared to Polian and Butler? It seems unreal to me how far this franchise was allowed to sink...CD 835317[/snapback] Very nice, I agree with everything except the OLine- I think Fowler has played well beyond expectations this year, and has gotten better each week. I like your paragraph about the skill positions. McGahee is better than a lot of backs in the NFL, but I can think of quite a few who I'd rather have. And you are spot on with Losman...I don't think anyone can seriously lay the blame on him because he's playing behind that OLine, but with the tools that he has, it's not unrealistic to expect a little something-something every now and then. He hasn't shown it, and his mental state is starting to worry me. No matter what he or anybody else says, he HAS to be questioning himself after these last two games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loadofmularkey Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 The overall lack of talent after 5 years with TD at the helm is amazing. The new group had to rework the D in the off-season, and even though it has weaknesses, it seems to be going in the right direction and is young and should get better. Because no team has unlimited resources, little was done to the offense in the off-season, under the concept that a better defense can keep you in games(a concept I agree with). But the talent on offense is horrendous. The O-line is putrid after years of neglect, and only an undrafted player, Peters, is any better than average. Most of the line is well below average. Lee Evans is a stud, but what else is at the skill positions. Everett is nothing at TE, Parrish is mostly invisible, McGahee is an OK back, but nothing more than that and certainly not a superstar. Losman is horrid, perhaps in large part due to the line but he certainly in not making "something out of nothing" as you would hope if he had above average potential. 5 years of utter incompetence is what you have to conclude we got from TD given the talent level on this team. And it's tough on Levy/Jauron because everyone is tired of this being a horrible team, and yet it is hard to fix this quickly. I mean TD seems like a pretty bright guy and well regarded, how did this get so screwed up as compared to Polian and Butler? It seems unreal to me how far this franchise was allowed to sink...CD 835317[/snapback] Don't tell Mort or Lenny P that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrLocke Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 I think free-agency is the way to go in building the o-line. O-linemen take a long time to develop and the longer the Bills put off drafting o-linemen in the higher rounds the longer it is going to take to build a good unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 What a load of horse crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 Well put. I agree with the exception that I could see us addressing the offensive line this season and being competitive next season. I'm hoping in this that JP develops and I'm pretty satisfied that willis and a-train will be good runners. Maybe I'm overly optimistic, but I think on the whole DJ and ML have done a very good job to date. A stud free agent, a couple of good draft picks, and our line problem will be solved. This is a painful season, but I see a light at the end of the tunnel, to coin a phrase! 835465[/snapback] And I also hope our this years draftees pay big dividends next year after having learnt the NFL game for a year.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 I think free-agency is the way to go in building the o-line. O-linemen take a long time to develop and the longer the Bills put off drafting o-linemen in the higher rounds the longer it is going to take to build a good unit. 835485[/snapback] I agree with the FA aspect...but how many excellent linemen become FA...Teams that have good OL lock them up with long term contracts...If one does get away like a Steve Hutchison, then the amount of money thrown at him is just so huge that it would become asnine to get into a bidding war. As for as the draft, I don't necessarily need them in the 1st round, but we need OL from the 2nd and 3rd rounds..And finally what we need is a GOOD OL COACH. McNally has proved that he cannot mould an OL that can pass block. His schemes have been horrible. Too many mental mistakes by his players causing unnecessary penalties. I think we should sign 1 marquee FA linemen (May be Eric Steinbach) and draft two OL in the 1st three rounds of the draft. They need to sign a #2 WR from the FA market. Price is done here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 Actually if you really want to go find out where it started to go wrong was Butler's last draft here. 835457[/snapback] Eric Flowers is no Walt Patulski. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubes Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 What a load of horse crap. 835489[/snapback] Which part? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2003Contenders Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 Landing a stud TE wouldn't hurt either... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 Which part? 835607[/snapback] The lack of talent. Sorry for not being more clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 I think free-agency is the way to go in building the o-line. O-linemen take a long time to develop and the longer the Bills put off drafting o-linemen in the higher rounds the longer it is going to take to build a good unit. 835485[/snapback] Think so? OK....please provide us with a list of offensive linemen who were free agent aquisitions who made the probowl. Start at the LT position if you will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyDingo Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 Thou hast angered the Ancient One! Oh Great Evil, We pray thee do not swoop in and eat our children at having offended thee. We pray thou shalt stay down South, near to thine servant Mularkey and your Church of the Dolphins. We know and admit thou art the power from which Nick Saban doth your will. We know and admit your icon: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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