Beerball Posted July 27, 2006 Share Posted July 27, 2006 I don't recall that game in particular, what happened exactly? 729950[/snapback] I think we fell just short of a first down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffOrange Posted July 27, 2006 Share Posted July 27, 2006 I don't recall that game in particular, what happened exactly? 729950[/snapback] Words don't do it any justice; just find a way to watch it somehow because the film says more than I could ever write. As Biscuit said, I just don't understand the Holcomb-blasting. Seems like the people saying he doesn't have the arm or the heart to throw downfield are mostly the same people saying that the coaches screwed JP by designing deeper routes compared to when KH was in the game. Which is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted July 27, 2006 Share Posted July 27, 2006 Words don't do it any justice; just find a way to watch it somehow because the film says more than I could ever write. As Biscuit said, I just don't understand the Holcomb-blasting. Seems like the people saying he doesn't have the arm or the heart to throw downfield are mostly the same people saying that the coaches screwed JP by designing deeper routes compared to when KH was in the game. Which is it? 729956[/snapback] Well, I've never said that. JP's struggles were mostly the result of him being young and green, hopefully he'll overcome those issues (otherwise we'll need a new QB). Sure the coaching staff wasn't helping him out much but the same can be said of everybody on the team. So given a choice as to which it is I'd say it's the former; Holcomb lacks either the arm strength or the heart to throw the ball down field (and by "down field" I mean 10 yards past the LoS). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted July 27, 2006 Share Posted July 27, 2006 Words don't do it any justice; just find a way to watch it somehow because the film says more than I could ever write. As Biscuit said, I just don't understand the Holcomb-blasting. Seems like the people saying he doesn't have the arm or the heart to throw downfield are mostly the same people saying that the coaches screwed JP by designing deeper routes compared to when KH was in the game. Which is it? 729956[/snapback] Yeah, I'm not saying KH is the greatest QB in the world. But is a solid one. He led us to 3 wins in 7 starts (though he gets credit for the KC game, I don't count that). So he went 3-3 on a 5-11 team with one of the worst defenses in the league last year and a horrible OL. That's not too bad. All people point to is his 4th and 7 play. Well, newsflash. He was a big part of the reason we were in the game to begin with. When was the last time we were in a position to steal a game in NE. So in short, KH isn't great but he isn't that bad either. Hopefully, Losman starts and if he does, we have one of the best backups in the league (and just because it's in a magazine doesn't make it true ). P. S. Holcomb's arm didn't look that bad on the bomb he hooked with Evans in Cincy for our longest completion of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted July 27, 2006 Share Posted July 27, 2006 Yeah, I'm not saying KH is the greatest QB in the world. But is a solid one. He led us to 3 wins in 7 starts (though he gets credit for the KC game, I don't count that). So he went 3-3 on a 5-11 team with one of the worst defenses in the league last year and a horrible OL. That's not too bad. 729987[/snapback] True that's not too bad, until you look at the games he won. JP was benched before coming home to play the Jets and the Phins back to back. Even BEFORE those games many were wondering why on earth the coaching staff would bench the young QB before the two easiest games on the schedule and at home no less. Those were confidence building games and the staff blew it by going to Holcomb. Had the Bills started Shane Mathews they likely would have won those games as the Jets and Phins were playing just horrid football at that time. What I said prior to those two games I feel like Nostradamus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrite Gal Posted July 27, 2006 Share Posted July 27, 2006 I think the key for KH being effective is going to be if Fairchild can desing, teach and effectively implement an O based on the St. L model. If he can design plays which utilize the speed of our WRs (Evans, Price, and Parrish) and the theoretical Run after the Catch ability of former RB Reed or Davis or nance steps up in a surprising way then it will make no difference that KH does not have a Bledsoe like rocket for an arm If the D is forced to give our recievers a cushion due to our speed, or through use of motion or picks we do not get called for he allows the receivers to get quick separation this will really play toward the good judgment which KH has developed with experience. Like almost all NFL starting QBs he will need to throw the deep on on occaision just be to make a credible threat that opens up the short passing game. However, though he does not seem to have the arm to throw deeo all day long. if we have a good O design with our personnel all he would need to do is offer the threat he is going to effectively let fly a coupkle or three times a game and the opposing D will need to respect that possibility all the time The really good news may well be that just as how Brad Johnson made far better and effective blockers out of his OL with his reads and quick short tosses so that an idiot like McKinnie did not have to hold his blocks forever as he did with the scrambling Culpepper, so too might KH running this scheme improve our OL performance. Its complicated and a lot of things have to happen correctly (like WM demonstrating that his second half of the season production outage not only can be reversed in his running game but he will have to be effective and effectively utilized as a Marshall Faulkeque receiver in this O. A safe checkdown will be needed and it is quite doubtful that blocking Royal will be used much as a pass catcher except in the redzone. I think this can work though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffOrange Posted July 27, 2006 Share Posted July 27, 2006 True that's not too bad, until you look at the games he won. JP was benched before coming home to play the Jets and the Phins back to back. Even BEFORE those games many were wondering why on earth the coaching staff would bench the young QB before the two easiest games on the schedule and at home no less. Those were confidence building games and the staff blew it by going to Holcomb. Had the Bills started Shane Mathews they likely would have won those games as the Jets and Phins were playing just horrid football at that time. What I said prior to those two games I feel like Nostradamus. 730024[/snapback] Miami entered that game 2-1 with wins over Denver & Carolina albeit at home, but they did not enter the game "playing horrible". Granted they played terrible that day with a plethora of turnovers & penalties, but if just one of our 1st half TD's had resulted in a FG instead we likely lose that game 17-16. I digress. Bottom line is people are overrating the impact of how the kid's progress was stalled by the coaches last year. Maybe you would feel more confident going into Foxboro September 10th if JP had started 3 more games last year; I doubt I would but that's me. I'm willing to write of this year and give JP a break if he plays poorly early. Assuming he is the guy for the whole year, can we at least agree that it is reasonable to expect and/or demand significant progress from him in November/December this year not withstanding any coaching decisions you disagreed with last year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted July 27, 2006 Share Posted July 27, 2006 Miami entered that game 2-1 with wins over Denver & Carolina albeit at home, but they did not enter the game "playing horrible". Granted they played terrible that day with a plethora of turnovers & penalties, but if just one of our 1st half TD's had resulted in a FG instead we likely lose that game 17-16. I digress. Bottom line is people are overrating the impact of how the kid's progress was stalled by the coaches last year. Maybe you would feel more confident going into Foxboro September 10th if JP had started 3 more games last year; I doubt I would but that's me. I'm willing to write of this year and give JP a break if he plays poorly early. Assuming he is the guy for the whole year, can we at least agree that it is reasonable to expect and/or demand significant progress from him in November/December this year not withstanding any coaching decisions you disagreed with last year? 730081[/snapback] It wasn't just the number of games. It was the game plans they put him in, the play-calling they gave him (or didn't give him), the jerking him in and out of the lineup early. The letting the veteran inmates run the asylum. There was a confluence of events that led to them blowing the JP experiment, of course including JP himself who let the pressure of the game and job and teammates as well as the intensity of the defensive pressure on him get to him. I think the vets only "turned" on him because they saw in the huddle his eyes. And he was spooked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike32282 Posted July 27, 2006 Share Posted July 27, 2006 I still believe that he will be cut after camp and I hope he does. Him on the team is not a good idea if JP wins the job, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in Chicago Posted July 27, 2006 Share Posted July 27, 2006 I still believe that he will be cut after camp and I hope he does. Him on the team is not a good idea if JP wins the job, IMO. 730169[/snapback] Methinks that with our fast DBs, only a QB with a strong arm will win this three way competition in camp. That is why I think our QB will be Nall or JP. Not sure it means that KH will be cut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted July 27, 2006 Share Posted July 27, 2006 In the latest edition of Pro Football Weekly, they rate the backup QBs. Kelly Holcomb was rated 15th BACKUP. For the record, in order, these are the guys rated above our noodle armed QB: Griese, Schaub, Frerotte, Garrard, Garcia, J. McCown, Harrington, Boller, Fiedler, Dilfer, Ramsey, Feeley, Wright, Batch. Being rated worse than Joey Harrington is pretty bad. 729707[/snapback] 15th best in the NFL, 15th best in the AFC East, or 15th best on the Bills? PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob in SC Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 Thank you for a rational evaluation of Holcomb. All we have to go on is past performance and, on that basis. he rises to the top. I hope things get better forJP or even Nall but there is no evidence of it to date, Give KH a break! Yeah, I'm not saying KH is the greatest QB in the world. But is a solid one. He led us to 3 wins in 7 starts (though he gets credit for the KC game, I don't count that). So he went 3-3 on a 5-11 team with one of the worst defenses in the league last year and a horrible OL. That's not too bad. All people point to is his 4th and 7 play. Well, newsflash. He was a big part of the reason we were in the game to begin with. When was the last time we were in a position to steal a game in NE. So in short, KH isn't great but he isn't that bad either. Hopefully, Losman starts and if he does, we have one of the best backups in the league (and just because it's in a magazine doesn't make it true ). P. S. Holcomb's arm didn't look that bad on the bomb he hooked with Evans in Cincy for our longest completion of the season. 729987[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts