Bill from NYC Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 Levi Jones who went to Cincy at around #10 in retrospect was by far the correct LT choice to make in this draft/ 721860[/snapback] That is correct, but MW was not necessarily a "LT choice" As I recall. Teague was signed to play in 02, no? C'mon PG....you can FINALLY admit after all these years of denial that McKinnie would have been a clearly superior choice than Fat Mike! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#1 Columbus Bills Fan Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 Mike Williams Position: Offensive Tackle College: Texas Height: 6-6 Weight: 375 Hometown: The Colony, Texas Career Notes | Agility | High School | Personal | Stats ANALYSIS Positives: Wide-body type with a thick chest and big arms … Has that quick twitch movement ability coming out of his stance, showing nimble feet and good hand rise and explosion … Hits defenders instantly coming off the ball, delivering power behind his arm swipes … Gains position and sustains blocks with a wide leg base and arms extended … Has the leg drive to steer and pin-block the defender … Shows very good knee bend for a player his size … Shows the agility to pull and accelerate at the point of attack … Uses his hands properly to turn the defender and makes smooth adjustments in space to cut off and wall off the linebackers … Very quick to set and extend his hands, delivering a forceful punch and jab on the pass rusher … Has the lateral slide needed to recover when changing direction … Competes and works hard in the weight room … Works well with the offensive guard in picking up stunts with ease … Shuffles his feet well setting up in pass protection. Negatives: Needs to get his weight to the 340-pound area in order to maintain stamina … Relies more on power than technique, lacking the true explosion you would want from someone his size coming off the snap … Needs to improve his footwork a bit, as he seems hesitant redirecting to inside moves … Will punch and jab at defenders rather than trying to push off … Has good trap-block ability, but has not been used much to pull … Overextends at times, but has the quickness to recover. CAREER NOTES Physical, athletic and intelligent lineman who developed into one of the nation's premier offensive tackles in 2001 … Dominating blocker who is unbelievably light on his feet for his size … "The sky's the limit for Mike and he has a chance to be one of the great ones," offensive coordinator Greg Davis said … Moved into the starting lineup at right tackle in the later part of his sophomore year … Has allowed only two quarterback sacks in 28 career starts. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2001 SEASON Earned first-team All-America honors from The NFL Draft Report, the American Football Coaches, Walter Camp Football Foundation and Football News, adding second-team accolades from the Associated Press and The Sporting News … First-team All-Big 12 Conference choice … Shared UT's Outstanding Offensive Lineman Award … Earned a spot on Playboy's prestigious All-America team … Collected 131 key blocks (67 knockdowns, 64 pancakes) and was responsible for 18 touchdown runs, 34 explosive plays (run or pass of 12-plus yards) and 24-of-25 third-and-short conversions … Cleared the way for UT's seventh consecutive 1,000-yard rusher (Cedric Benson, 1,053 yards) … Helped pave the way for seven individual 100-yard rushers (Ivan Williams: 103 at Houston, 152 vs. Texas Tech; Benson: 131 at Oklahoma State, 100 vs. Colorado, 157 at Missouri, 108 at Baylor, 213 vs. Kansas) … Allowed only one sack as he helped lead a UT offense that led the Big 12 Conference and ranked sixth nationally in scoring offense (39.2 ppg) … Started every game at right offensive tackle. New Mexico State - Shared Player of the Game honors as he posted five knockdowns and nine pancakes, clearing a rush lane used by tailback Ivan Williams for a 4-yard touchdown run as the offense generated 399 yards. Houston - Added nine knockdowns and five pancakes … Cut blocked defensive tackle Lee Ingersoll on a 92-yard touchdown bomb from QB Chris Simms to B.J. Johnson as the team amassed 534 yards. Texas Tech - Collected two pancakes and nine knockdowns … Flattened safety Kevin Curtis as Simms skipped around the right side for a 1-yard scoring run and the Long- horns totaled 433 yards, but suffered a right knee sprain (anterior cruciate ligament). Oklahoma State - Added eight knockdowns and seven pancakes for an offense that picked up 241 yards rushing … Leveled linebacker Dwayne Levels on Simms' 27-yard scoring strike to Brock Edwards. Missouri - Had a season-high 10 pancakes and delivered three knockdowns … Brought down linebacker Jamonte Robertson on an 8-yard touchdown toss from Simms to Roy Williams as the offense accounted for 421 yards. Kansas - Helped the offense generate a season-high 606 yards as he made seven pancakes and six knockdowns. Texas A&M - Had six knockdowns and seven pancakes … Took down defensive end Rocky Bernard twice in the fourth quarter with touchdown-resulting blocks on runs of 5 and 11 yards by Cedric Benson. Colorado (Big 12 Championship) - Left in the second quarter with a shoulder sprain. Washington (Holiday Bowl) - Made seven knockdowns and five pancakes … Leveled nose guard Larry Tripplett on a 1-yard scoring plunge by Ivan Williams as the offense amassed 592 yards. Did anyone else see this....WE ARE DOOMED!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 That is correct, but MW was not necessarily a "LT choice" As I recall. Teague was signed to play in 02, no? C'mon PG....you can FINALLY admit after all these years of denial that McKinnie would have been a clearly superior choice than Fat Mike! 722223[/snapback] Teague was signed early in FA to play LT, then Bills drafted Williams. Teague moved to C after minicamps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrite Gal Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 That is correct, but MW was not necessarily a "LT choice" As I recall. Teague was signed to play in 02, no? C'mon PG....you can FINALLY admit after all these years of denial that McKinnie would have been a clearly superior choice than Fat Mike! 722223[/snapback] I certainly would agree that in retrospect McKinnie would have been a better choice than the bust MW was. I think is also important that folks don't conclude from this obvious fact that McKinnie would have been a good choice by the Bills. Certainly we see from those who even today are addicted to advocating that the Bills should have spent heaviily in this draft on the OL (folks even advocated us trading up for D'Brick which I think would have set back our timing for recovery by as much as a year that some place a priority on an OL prospect if you have a top 10 pick ignore the lessons of the picks of MW and McKinnie that it isn't sufficient to spend highly in the draft on the OL, you also have to spend well. As it turns out, if you do what YD did and devote your #4 to an MW, you can easily end up with a bust. if you had instead taken the second rated T McKinnie you get a guy whose primary endorsement seems to be WM's words that nobody parties like Bryant. Instead, maybe your choice is to draft the best QB available, but as it turns out #3 choice Harrington was a bust just like MW. My sense is that if you have a top 5 choice as the Bills may possibly have next year, your best answer is probably to trade down. You might get a winner, but the odds appear to be that you will half the time get a bust, a chunk of the rest of the time, get someone like a Manning who is a franchise QB, but barely has won more playoff games for the team which drafted him than Ryab Leaf won for SD, and in a few cases you might get a franchise player who helps your team get to the SB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nemhoff Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 The thing that kills me about this is, after the Jags signed him, Tom Donahoe went on national sports radio and called it "a great signing". Yea. It was a great pick, too. 721686[/snapback] Good call, I forgot about that. TD ever the face saver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Typical TBD Guy Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 if you had instead taken the second rated T McKinnie you get a guy whose primary endorsement seems to be WM's words that nobody parties like Bryant. 722324[/snapback] Nobody partied like Jim Kelly, either. Quite frankly, I don't care what these guys do in their private life provided it isn't bad enough that it gets them suspended for games. Fact of the matter is that McKinnie is still starting - at LEFT tackle. Tom "The Genius" Donahoe drafted an overweight RIGHT tackle with the fourth overall pick. McKinnie was the safe pick, but when did "The Genius" ever play it safe with our draft picks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob in STL Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 Levi Jones who went to Cincy at around #10 in retrospect was by far the correct LT choice to make in this draft/ 721860[/snapback] Very true, and I distinctly remember the "experts" on ESPN saying that the pick was a reach, he would have been there at 20. Same bunk they said about the Whitner pick this year. The Jones pick is a great example of why you should not put much stock into the talking heads on ESPN and their vision of what is proper value in the draft. I would love to see the Bills get Jones next season as a free agent but I expect that Cinci will lock up their franchise LT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 WORST.....DRAFT PICK.....EVER!thank you Comic Book Guy. 721599[/snapback] Makes Walt Patulski look like a sound pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fixxxer Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 4 Buffalo Mike Williams T Texas 36 Buffalo Josh Reed WR Louisiana State 61 Ryan Denney DE Brigham Young (almost a Steeler ) 97 Buffalo Coy Wire SS Stanford 139 Buffalo Justin Bannan DT Colorado 176 Buffalo Kevin Thomas CB Nevada-Las Vegas 215 Buffalo Mike Pucillo C Auburn Prospect Profile 721647[/snapback] You missed one ingredient to that magnificent draft class Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 I would love to see the Bills get Jones next season as a free agent but I expect that Cinci will lock up their franchise LT. 722427[/snapback] Bob, my best guess at this point is that Jones will walk. Steinback needs to be re-signed and has good versatility, and will command a pretty penny. Plus, out of the blue, Jones started to make noises about how he was "underappreciated" last season. They drafted LSU OT Andrew Whitworth with their #2 pick this past April, and had him and Steinback working at LT in the minis. They've stocked up on linemen the past two seasons who show promise - for whatever that's worth - in anticipation of defections after this season. Palmer is a nice enough QB, but his money and cap takes its toll. I'd sure love to see the Bills get Jones, too. He's missed the odd game or part of with this or that nick, but nothing major. He's a pretty good run blocker too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob in STL Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 Bob, my best guess at this point is that Jones will walk. Steinback needs to be re-signed and has good versatility, and will command a pretty penny. Plus, out of the blue, Jones started to make noises about how he was "underappreciated" last season. They drafted LSU OT Andrew Whitworth with their #2 pick this past April, and had him and Steinback working at LT in the minis. They've stocked up on linemen the past two seasons who show promise - for whatever that's worth - in anticipation of defections after this season. Palmer is a nice enough QB, but his money and cap takes its toll. I'd sure love to see the Bills get Jones, too. He's missed the odd game or part of with this or that nick, but nothing major. He's a pretty good run blocker too. 722498[/snapback] Hmmm interesting. I am always leary of the " I'm not appreciated" types but the guy is far better than any tackle we have had since Wolford and Ballard. Thanks for the update. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrite Gal Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 McKinnie was the safe pick, 722368[/snapback] Better pick? Obviously yes. Safe pick? I don't think so given his holdout which in essence made him ineffective the first year he was signed. I agree that I do not care what players do off the field unless it impacts their or the teams performance on the field. However, given him being one of the found guilty parties among several Vikes with their sex boat episode, it sounds to me that while I can at least tolerate it if one our players is never caught or beats the rap, merely avoiding a felony conviction is not necessarily the standard for having no effect on your or your team's game. We fans do not know what goes on in the locker room so maybe McKinnie is a positive team leader there and adds to the Vikes game. However, given items from the holdout which did impact his play on the field, to his rap sheet, it would strike me as stupidity on a GM's part or great acting on BM's part if a GM took him because he was the "safe pick" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scraps Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 Better pick? Obviously yes. Safe pick? I don't think so given his holdout which in essence made him ineffective the first year he was signed. 722674[/snapback] He wouldn't have held out against the Bills assuming he was offered a contract commenserate with his slotting like Mike Williams was offered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrite Gal Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 He wouldn't have held out against the Bills assuming he was offered a contract commenserate with his slotting like Mike Williams was offered. 722682[/snapback] Possibly. He simply sounds like a little boy or an a-hole to me. Yhe choice between MW and BM seems like whether you prefer a wimp or a buttwipe. Make mine Levi Jones in retrospect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Offside Number 76 Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 I disagree. While he was the 4th pick taken in a Draft he was not nearly as highly touted as Mandarich (one of the best OL prospects ever) and Leaf (considered by some as the top pick over Manning). Shoot. I'd say even Akili Smith, Steve Entman (sp? U of Wash DL), and Desond Howard were bigger busts... That said, Mike Williams was thought of by most to be a "safe" as a ROT for a decade. He is a big (in more then one way) bust. Too bad b/c you can tell he is a really good guy that just did not have it mentally (toughness) to make it in the NFL. 721603[/snapback] It's Emtman and Desmond Howard--each with an 'm'--and each certainly was a much bigger bust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 It's Emtman and Desmond Howard--each with an 'm'--and each certainly was a much bigger bust. 722834[/snapback] Sorry, gotta disagree with you. Emtman was looking awesome as a rookie. His 90 yard INT return for a TD was indicative of what sort of player he would probably have become. A promising NFL career cut short by a devastating injury. Injuries cannot be counted as bust unless the player involved had a checkered injury past in college. Howard at least lasted 10 years in the league & was a Pro-bowl level returner who also scored a Superbowl ring & a Superbowl MVP. Clearly he was a bust but "certainly was a much bigger bust" ???? No way.......at this point. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying MW was the biggest bust of all time. I believe he is just a run-of-the-mill big bust & there are lots of other busts as bad or much worse.....just not the two examples given. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scraps Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 Possibly. He simply sounds like a little boy or an a-hole to me. 722825[/snapback] Because he didn't sign a contract that wasn't commensurate with his slot in the draft he was a little boy or an a-hole? Yhe choice between MW and BM seems like whether you prefer a wimp or a buttwipe. Make mine Levi Jones in retrospect. Ah so we are only to speak in 20/20 hindsight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 It's Emtman and Desmond Howard--each with an 'm'--and each certainly was a much bigger bust. 722834[/snapback] Another big bust no one mentioned here was Heath Shuler.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJsackedagain Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 Here we go again... Seriously, 400lbs. I cannot believe that they gave him that much in a SB. Funding Big Mike's trips to Ponderosa. 721594[/snapback] I heard they paid the fat pig in fudge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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