IDBillzFan Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 I wouldn't be at all surprised if Holcomb is still better than both of them, as he is the only one to this point who has achieved any kind of success–and I use that term loosely–in the NFL.717808[/snapback] The difference being, naturally, that Holcomb has had more than ample time to show what he is capable of whereas you have no idea what Losman or Nall can be capable of given the same ample time on the playing field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 Scout.com=Darth Vader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oneonta Buffalo Fan Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 More like "experienced - sat on the bench while Favre played". Sitting on the bench while a future hall of famer plays does NOT equal playing time. As for the article itself...I can't even begin to recall all the times a guy was impressive in mini-camp and couldn't cut it on the field. I don't give a sh-- who's QB, as long as they put the best guy for the team on the field. But I HIGHLY doubt an early July article from Scout.com is going to factor in to that. 717812[/snapback] More like "experienced - sat on the bench while Favre played". Sitting on the bench while a future hall of famer plays does NOT equal playing time. I've heard that way too much. SO WHAT!!!! At least he had the chance to learn something from Farve. Who knows I might be beneficial to the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiz Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 I want this guy to be our QB.1. Great with the press. 2. Experienced (played with FARVE!) 3. Can we really trust JP? 4. Great arm (better than JP, I think) 5. More likely to lead this team. 717811[/snapback] First, and foremost, I want a qb who does a good news conference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBuffaloDisease Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 Nall looked like crap until the last set of OTA's and even then he was no better than the other 2 guys. But the starting job is between him and JP and may the best man win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 Bill, objectively speaking, do you really think JP has had enough time to show whether or not he's going to be a successful NFL QB?? 717860[/snapback] No, I do not. What I DO think is that given the opportunity that he DID have, he sucked. This is a Bills Board, so I can see why people would want to pretend that he was good, but the truth is; he was not. JP Losman has thus far sucked. Sorry. I want him to succeed as much as you. Where we seem to disagree is wrt Bledsoe, wouldn't you say? I make the case that TD dumped Drew because we lost to his alma matter. One football game. I also contend that JP, when compared to Drew, sucks, and I mean woefully sucks. It would be great if this were to end but I don't see it happening; this as a guy who has followed football for close to 40 years. You might think that JP will be better than Drew some day. I think that the chances of JP being a pimple on Drew's ass are slim, unless JP turns his entire game around. If he does, a pimple perhaps; but at a stupid, ridiculous cost. Jmo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajzepp Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 No, I do not. What I DO think is that given the opportunity that he DID have, he sucked. This is a Bills Board, so I can see why people would want to pretend that he was good, but the truth is; he was not. JP Losman has thus far sucked. Sorry. I want him to succeed as much as you. Where we seem to disagree is wrt Bledsoe, wouldn't you say? I make the case that TD dumped Drew because we lost to his alma matter. One football game. I also contend that JP, when compared to Drew, sucks, and I mean woefully sucks. It would be great if this were to end but I don't see it happening; this as a guy who has followed football for close to 40 years. You might think that JP will be better than Drew some day. I think that the chances of JP being a pimple on Drew's ass are slim, unless JP turns his entire game around. If he does, a pimple perhaps; but at a stupid, ridiculous cost. Jmo. 717933[/snapback] haha, I love when you give me an "in" for the Bledsoe thing.... In my opinion, if Drew was good enough for NE to send him packing, then he was good enough for us to do the same. I think Drew is talented in certain skills that are conducive to the game of football. That is, he can throw a football. Unfortunately it takes more than that to win championships, and if you KNOW a guy doesn't have that ability, then it makes more sense to go in a different direction. The only thing Bledsoe does better than Trent Dilfer is throw the long ball. That's it. Dilfer is smarter, makes better decisions, is a better leader, and costs less money I use Dilfer as an example because he has something Bledsoe never will, and we both know what that is. You may be exactly right about JP, but when it comes down to JUST the Bledsoe decision - to get rid of him or not - it's clear to me that the Patriots set the example that all should follow. Chances are that JP and Nall will both be gone in a couple years and we'll have someone else in here trying to win the job. But I'd rather be proactive in the search for the answer at qb instead of continuing to believe that someone else will just magically "get better". If you go back to my posts from early last season, you'll see that while everyone else was talking about how dumb we were for getting rid of a guy who was tearing it up in Big 'D', I was posting that he'd have a crappy secnd half of the season. Now I'm usually wrong abut most things, Bill, but not that. And as much as I'd like to say it was my brilliance that led me to that viewpoint, it wasn't. But Bill, I understand probability and statistics. And when I looked at Bledsoe's career numbers, year in and year out, do yu know what they told me? They told me that there was NO WAY Bledsoe was going to stay anywhere near that level of play, because in order to get back to his career averages, he'd have to play HORRIBLY in order to offset all those high numbers. That's exactly what happened. The numbers don't lie, and I knew that. There's too much info on the guy to believe he'll do much of anything differently than he always has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrite Gal Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 And he has done so much to deserve such reverence. I know, give him a chance.....it is only his 3rd year, and he only cost us a 1st, 2nd, and a 5th! 717837[/snapback] A 2nd and a 5th sound like a pretty small extra price to pay if he plays like a 1st rpund QB. He has not to date (amd may never do so), but given how poor the QB class was the next year (I think Rodgers who still is as unproven as JP went at #18. Obviously the Bills should have looked to draft a QB replacement for Kelly a year earlier than they did as both Butler and Ralph badly miscalculated how long Kelly would be able to play. We are paying for this mistake in TC being drafted too high, TC being rushed to start before he was ready (if he ever could have been), us wasting a 4rd rounder on Hobert, us panicking and giving big bucks to RJ before he proved he could overcome the injury issues he was already showing signs of when we got him and foolishly extending Bledsoe instead of just calling his one good year and one horrid year a wash and cutting him then. However, the worse thing we could do is panic again and pull the plug on the JP experiment until it has run its course on the field. Bringing in Holcomb and Nall to compete with him is the interlligent thing to do, Let play rather than opinion decide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimBob2232 Posted July 3, 2006 Author Share Posted July 3, 2006 because he has something Bledsoe never will, and we both know what that is. Not to dispute your point...but Bledsoe HAS one of those! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajzepp Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 Not to dispute your point...but Bledsoe HAS one of those! 717968[/snapback] Damn you, JimBob!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimBob2232 Posted July 3, 2006 Author Share Posted July 3, 2006 Damn you, JimBob!!!!! 717970[/snapback] But it wont mean as much as the one he wins in buffalo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 No, I do not. What I DO think is that given the opportunity that he DID have, he sucked. This is a Bills Board, so I can see why people would want to pretend that he was good, but the truth is; he was not. JP Losman has thus far sucked. Sorry. 717933[/snapback] But if JP had a different haircut, then you wouldnt have thought he sucked as bad, huh? JP didnt play good last year. But it is completely obtuse to say that JP DIDN'T improve over the 2nd part of the season. He did improve and thats what matters. I am not pretending that he was good last season, because he wasnt. but there was improvement. that cant be ignored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimBob2232 Posted July 3, 2006 Author Share Posted July 3, 2006 I agree. JP was not good last year. Anyone who says differently is delusional. HOWEVER, when you watch him on tape, a few things are apparent. 1) He feels pressure in the pocket when no pressure exists 2) He gets happy feet and takes off running too soon. 3) He has a good arm, and generally makes good decisions with the football. So, while he lacked success last season, I think there are enough signs of light where he deserves another season to shine. QBs take varying lengths of time to develop, and yes some never do. Look how long it took Drew Brees to develop. To throw away all we have invested in him at this point is a bad plan. Also, why was it that we seemed to be unstopable on the first drive of every game, and downright pitiful the second half of the game? I think it was conditioning, and I have been saying that for a long time. I find it ironic willis has lost weight, as well as others on the team. I really think we were not conditioned well (Good move with Rusty Jones...). And it sounds like a broken record, but GIVE THE GUY AN OLINE. If JP gets comfortable in the pocket, the team is conditioned properly, and the play calling improves, I think we are in for a surprise on offense this year. Thats alot of IFs...but JP shows more signs of upside than some of you give him credit for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 Yes s.i.c. but teams are intrigued by qbs at draft time. Akili Smith? The road to QB ruin in the NFL is paved with plenty of names. Big deal. It takes alot more than a half season of starts on a bad football team to decide whether a guy is good or not. Look at what TD gave up for Losman. It was simply stupid, or at the very least so it appears. I can't see where Nall would ever get a chance playing behind Favre. Rodgers fell unexpectedly deep in the draft and they grabbed him. What was stupid was the way he was handled from the second he was drafted. Moving into the first round is normally expensive and giving up only draft choices isn't really that big a deal when you go back and look at each draft as a whole. Second round draft choices who seriously contribute are less than 20% and fifth rounders are less than 10%. Looking at GB as of late, a stupid mistake wouldn't be such a shock, no? 717859[/snapback] GB is simply paying for having a great QB at the end of the line. Alot of success led to high priced talent, which forced them to jettison many quality players and replace them with young guys who weren't ready to play. It happens to pretty much every team that goes to a SB or two or wins their division for half a decade straight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 What was stupid was the way he was handled from the second he was drafted. Moving into the first round is normally expensive and giving up only draft choices isn't really that big a deal when you go back and look at each draft as a whole. Second round draft choices who seriously contribute are less than 20% and fifth rounders are less than 10%. 717985[/snapback] I agree with you that the value of draft picks is inflated, but just curious, are you exaggerating with your percentages, or is this something that is documented? I thought I had read somewhere (can't remember where), a few years ago, that there were a higher percentage of 2nd, 3rd and 4th round draft picks contributing to NFL rosters, after 5 years, than there were frist rounders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted July 4, 2006 Share Posted July 4, 2006 I agree with you that the value of draft picks is inflated, but just curious, are you exaggerating with your percentages, or is this something that is documented? I thought I had read somewhere (can't remember where), a few years ago, that there were a higher percentage of 2nd, 3rd and 4th round draft picks contributing to NFL rosters, after 5 years, than there were frist rounders. 718020[/snapback] Define contributing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finknottle Posted July 4, 2006 Share Posted July 4, 2006 haha, I love when you give me an "in" for the Bledsoe thing.... In my opinion, if Drew was good enough for NE to send him packing, then he was good enough for us to do the same. 717943[/snapback] Drew was good enough for NE to send him packing... knowing that they had Brady ready and saw what kind of season he was capable of. Do you really think they would have cut him loose had he not been injured, and turned it over to a 2nd year rookie? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajzepp Posted July 4, 2006 Share Posted July 4, 2006 Drew was good enough for NE to send him packing... knowing that they had Brady ready and saw what kind of season he was capable of. Do you really think they would have cut him loose had he not been injured, and turned it over to a 2nd year rookie? 718094[/snapback] When Bledsoe came back from his injury, they could have very easily gone back to him. They didn't. There was a reason they didn't, and it wasn't entirely due to the play of Brady. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted July 4, 2006 Share Posted July 4, 2006 My question is: How does Scout.com know Nall is impressive? Do they have daily access to OTA's? Do they have any press access to the Billls at all? Or are they getting their information second-hand,, from guys posting at BillsFanZone, or worse yet, from Nall's agent. If they don't have a correspondant seeing the Bills every day, then I don't take what they write seriously. Especially when they contradict what we've been hearing about Nall in camp all off-season. PTR 717874[/snapback] Yep. Once again, all the local beat reporters have been scooped by an out-of-town source. I wonder how they can look at themselves in the mirror... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliforniaCheez Posted July 4, 2006 Share Posted July 4, 2006 I don't know why some posting would not want the best QB to win the job. What is wrong with success? Some say Nall was just a back up to Favre. Well Mark Brunnell was a Packer 5th round pick in 1993 and "just a backup" behind Favre and had success elsewhere. (Helped Jaguars to AFC title game) Matt Hasselbeck was a Packer 6th round pick in 1998 who was "just a backup" sat a few years behind Favre. (Helped Seattle to Super Bowl) Aaron Brooks was a 4th round pick of the Packers in 1999, was "just a backup" behind Favre and became a starter after being traded. (He started awhile for the Saints) Craig Nall was a 5th round pick of the Packers in 2002 and just a backup to Favre. That is not a bad track record of drafting QB's who are "just a backup" to Favre. What will you say when you see this guy play and proves to be pretty good? You ought to at least get in your mind it is a possibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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