Salisbury Steaks His Claim. Bills in trouble

[Pyrite Gal]

If the Bills can get immediate contributions from Whitner, McCargo, and Youboty, they could do very well this year.  I like what they've done on offense in FA.  And the ST's should only get better.

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I think Youbouty was a best player available pick and not a need pick and I do not expect him to play to fill an immediate need for us, and form what I here what HE needs (as opposed to the Bills needs) in order to develop as a player is another year of training.

 

The rap on him (and I suspect why this talented player who some had rated as having 1st round skills) was that he left school a year to early and needs some more development. Apparently he does make some great plays but is too undisciplined and inconsistent to be relied upon as a starting CB or more likely as a nickel.

 

Greer seems good enough to handle the nickel (where he too showed flashed of brilliance playmaking ability last pre-season and even better will actually be challenged for nickel duty by last year CB draftee King.

 

Instead of havinf his final year of "finishing school" in college, I suspect he will actually get better teaching and some more sereious reps in oractice against pro receivers or a 16 game season that he would get playing real games against college level opponents over a 10 or 11 game season,

 

Even better IF he learns and is capable of getting the discipline and consistency this year to make him a vet CB next year with first round talent, the Bills have greatly increased their leverage to let Clements walk if the cap dictates next yearand we might see a three way competition between Greer, King and Yobouty to line up across from McGee at starting CB, with the loser of this battle getting the nickel slot.

[JAMIEBUF12]

who gives a steve trojan what the media or even people like me think............................everybody has beliefs and opinions and thats all they are...............i happen to see the big picture and believe the bills drafted very well and the truth is we will not know for a while and there are also lots of reasons why a draft pick can not pan out good............you can draft a player with very good talent and then have a coaching staff misuse or not properly coach the player and then the player is labeled a bust.......its one reason i liked our draft it seems we drafted players to fit our scheme(unlike when we had greg williams)and it also seems the gm,head coach and i forget what exact title tom modrak has were all on the same page in this draft......so like i said who gives a steve trojan what sean salsbury thinks! go bills in '06 and good luck to all of the '06 bills draft picks

[AJ1]

They were talking about coaching changes, and he said that Jauron is a really good guy who stepped into a horrible situation.  Very thin talent in Buffalo.  The draft was horrible.  Bills and Jets are going to struggle to get to 6 victories. 

 

I wish I could've called in.  Nobody seems to notice Youboty and Ko Simpson as good picks.  Everybody seems to trash the first two choices. 

 

Wonder how they felt about Andre Reed.  Don Beebe.  Darryl Talley.

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Bad mouth the Bills at least once a week, emphasizing how bad the draft was or you don't get a paycheck....must be an edict from ESPN management(oxymoron).

 

Like to see one of those mindless wonders do an analysis of what got the Bills in their 'horrible situation' in the first place.

 

BTW, I'm 'pork chopping' my claim.

[Typical TBD Guy]

VERY THIN ON TALENT

 

OK, I'll grant you the Bills certainly do njot Super Bowl champion talent but come on!  The QB is a major uestion mark, but the Bills have a strong group of receivers, a good RB, if they can get healthy, solid TE's, the defense look very strong, and the Bills special teams are great!

 

On paper the Bills top 4 picks were as good as anyone in the draft.  In reality the Bills may have drafted 4 of the best 50 or 60 players in the draft.  According to some draft rankings the Bills did just that!

 

With some good coaching and a break or two, the Bills could be a playoff contender.  With all due respect, the career benchwarmer has no idea what he is talking about!

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I'll state right now that I think we had a solid draft, a solid offseason given what was available, and will have a bright future ahead with Levauron in command (I have no reason to believe otherwise, at the moment).

 

However, I think we're all kidding ourselves if we expect this team to suddenly have a Sabres-like 2006 season. Salisbury is right - Levauron were handed a mess of a roster (thanks Tom). It will probably take 2 full years to get back to the playoff-competitive status not seen since 1999.

 

I challenge your optimism for the WR's, TE's, and defense.

 

At WR: we just lost Moulds and are now facing the possibility of an inexperienced Evans-Reed #1-#2 combo...all I'll say is that Davis and/or Price better work out.

 

At TE: Royal was a mediocre player in Washington, Everett is always injured, Euhus sucks, and Cieslak hasn't proven himself yet against first-string NFL D's.

 

At defense: my biggest concern is along the DL. The LB's and DB's - with a healthy Spikes - are good enough to rank top 10, but I don't see us stopping the run with Anderson or rushing the passer with Kelsay (Schobel and Tripplett are OK with me).

 

I also see you omitted optimism for the OL, which - while better - is still among the worst in the NFL. According to most depth charts, all we've done is replace Anderson and Teague with Reyes and Fowler. This reminds me a lot of seasons past, where the marginal additions of Gandy, Anderson, an aging Villarial, Panos, etc... were enough to convince fans that the OL was set. Note to Marv: draft some linemen with your 2007 day one picks.

[Rico]

They were talking about coaching changes, and he said that Jauron is a really good guy who stepped into a horrible situation.  Very thin talent in Buffalo.  The draft was horrible.  Bills and Jets are going to struggle to get to 6 victories. 

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Hard to argue with everything SS said except the draft being horrible. I don't think this draft will help us very much at all in 2006, but it has the potential to be very good in the future. It's easy to see where he's coming from though, if all you come up with is Donte Whitner and John McCargo with the #8, #42, and #73 picks in a solid draft. Those 2 players are going to have to really shine to silence all the what-if people... but they are "innocent until proven guilty", here's to them proving all the critics wrong (including myself).

[nodnarb]

If there's one guy who I *really* hate on ESPN, it's Salisbury. He's such a phony, he'd even make phonies sick. He's a bandwagon jumper. Moves with the tide. Sucks up to certain NFL figures deemed untouchable, and trashes those who are vulnerable and have no allies in the media. He's a dick, basically.

 

And he was a schitty, schitty quarterback.

[fitnbills]

I really can't understand why everyone is so defensive when analyst dog or draft and offseason changes...

 

The truthg is many of you were saying the same thing when we chose ML as our new GM, when we chose DJ as our head coach, when we picked Whitner as our first pick. So I'm not sure why you guys get so defensive when other people say the samething. I'm a huge bills fan and the truth in my opinion is this offseason we haven't done anything to catch up in our division in fast I believe there is a bigger gap now than it was at the start of last season.

 

The bills are going to have a very hard time this year. The QB position is up for grabs and that's never been a good thing b/c there is no continuity there. In addition we still don't know who's going to be snapping the ball to whomever the QB is let alone the other OL starters.

 

The WR's big question is who's going to be number 2? Also, who's going to be our possession guy the one who can go across the middle?

 

The interior DL is satill a big ?

 

So my thought is until we prove something on the field everyone is going to have these questions regarding the bills.

 

The one good I see is that unlike prior years when we were so anxious for the season and we just knew it was our year that's no the case this year and I'm just hopefull that it will bring us a good things as a result.

[mary owen]

Yawn.....

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you should really try to get more sleep

[mary owen]

The truth of the matter is whether you like Salisbury or not his prediction isn't too off base unless you think this team has a chance of winning 8 games which just won't happen.

 

Winning 6 games would be a about right considering the talent that the rest of the AFC teams have.

 

The NFL ain't like Hockey guys!

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I'm not sure anyone is saying that they know for a fact we will be better. But you seem to be saying that for sure they won't win at least 8.

 

funny, how after 2004, many expected the Bills to challenge for the division, and those same people expected the Dolphins to have a very crappy rebuilding-type season.

 

we all know how things ended up.

 

you just never know....

[krazykat]

They were talking about coaching changes, and he said that Jauron is a really good guy who stepped into a horrible situation.  Very thin talent in Buffalo.  The draft was horrible.  Bills and Jets are going to struggle to get to 6 victories. 

 

I wish I could've called in.  Nobody seems to notice Youboty and Ko Simpson as good picks.  Everybody seems to trash the first two choices. 

 

Wonder how they felt about Andre Reed.  Don Beebe.  Darryl Talley.

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You say tha the says we'll be lucky to get 6 wins this year and then you talk about how a couple of junior DBs are going to help us, do what? Win games in their rookie seasons?

 

Maybe next year, but not this one.

[ExWNYer]

They were talking about coaching changes, and he said that Jauron is a really good guy who stepped into a horrible situation.  Very thin talent in Buffalo.  The draft was horrible.  Bills and Jets are going to struggle to get to 6 victories. 

I wish I could've called in.  Nobody seems to notice Youboty and Ko Simpson as good picks.  Everybody seems to trash the first two choices. Wonder how they felt about Andre Reed.  Don Beebe.  Darryl Talley.

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Yippee! Yet another ESPN talking douchebag weighs in with his astute "analysis".

Right, wrong, or indifferent I couldn't care less what the egomaniacal twits at that network say. I'll form my own opinions.

 

 

If there's one guy who I *really* hate on ESPN, it's Salisbury. He's such a phony, he'd even make phonies sick. He's a bandwagon jumper. Moves with the tide. Sucks up to certain NFL figures deemed untouchable, and trashes those who are vulnerable and have no allies in the media. He's a dick, basically.

And he was a schitty, schitty quarterback.

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This is funny...and I happen to agree with you.

[Pyrite Gal]

I'll state right now that I think we had a solid draft, a solid offseason given what was available, and will have a bright future ahead with Levauron in command (I have no reason to believe otherwise, at the moment).

 

However, I think we're all kidding ourselves if we expect this team to suddenly have a Sabres-like 2006 season. Salisbury is right - Levauron were handed a mess of a roster (thanks Tom). It will probably take 2 full years to get back to the playoff-competitive status not seen since 1999.

 

I challenge your optimism for the WR's, TE's, and defense.

 

At WR: we just lost Moulds and are now facing the possibility of an inexperienced Evans-Reed #1-#2 combo...all I'll say is that Davis and/or Price better work out.

 

At TE: Royal was a mediocre player in Washington, Everett is always injured, Euhus sucks, and Cieslak hasn't proven himself yet against first-string NFL D's.

 

At defense: my biggest concern is along the DL. The LB's and DB's - with a healthy Spikes - are good enough to rank top 10, but I don't see us stopping the run with Anderson or rushing the passer with Kelsay (Schobel and Tripplett are OK with me).

 

I also see you omitted optimism for the OL, which - while better - is still among the worst in the NFL. According to most depth charts, all we've done is replace Anderson and Teague with Reyes and Fowler. This reminds me a lot of seasons past, where the marginal additions of Gandy, Anderson, an aging Villarial, Panos, etc... were enough to convince fans that the OL was set. Note to Marv: draft some linemen with your 2007 day one picks.

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My sense is that the Bills situation is like a glass which is partially filled. Some look at a randomly chosen amount )rather than me choosing an amount to state where I think the Bills are) and say the glass is half full while others look at the exact same amount and state the glass is half empty.

 

Both are right about the amount and it says more about whether the viewer is an optimist or a pessimist in terms of how they choose to look at the situation.

 

There is legitimate debate about whether the glass is either 3/4 ful or 1/4 full and I personally like posts which try to substantiate their point of view by pointing out objective facts rather than folks simply spouting the fact-free opinions which are all too prevalent on TSW. However, it strikes me as pretty clear whether you think the new regime is 25% of the way there or 75% of the way there, that the 2006 Bills team is substantially short of being a team which has a likely shot at the playoffs this year.

 

Still the neat thing about the new competitive balance which the salary cap under the CBA provides is that like never before a team can move from worst to first in one season. As collective and downright socialistic as the new CBA is, it actually is lot closer to being a free market than the old moribund NFL ways.

 

Even though this business is based on the collectivism inherent in unionized approach (the NFLPA is pretty clearly the majority partner in their collaboration with owners to get nickels from you and I with their receiving 59.5% of the total revenues). The NFLPA has moved the NFL much closer to a free-market approach where workers after roughly 4 years get to sell their services and get what the market will give them as unrestricted free agents.

 

The irony here it strikes me is that if this actually were a total free market where a person could sell their services to he highest bidder, it actually would totally destroy this product (hence the team owners ran screaming to agree to the CBA when the NFLPA threated to go out of business after the owners kicked their butt in the mid-80s lockout).

 

With the NFLPA and the team owners agreeing to restraints on free trade known as the draft, the restriction in underage players signing pro contracts (this restraint of trade runs counter to how the NBA, MLB, golf, tennis, etc operate) and other agreements reflected in the CBA it provides an interesting example of how the best outcome is neither found in implementation of either the extremes of communistic approaches or in free market approaches, but instead moderation which gets agreed to by these two economic forces.

 

As far as football goes, i think you are too pessimistic in your assessment of whether the Bills glass is partially empty or partially full

 

1. WR- Moulds was supplanted as the #1 WR last year in the second Miami game and proved it by throwing a hissyfit after Evans scored 3 TDs with Moulds (historically a Fish burner) used as a mere decoy.

 

It seems to me that few Bills stepped out to support him (including NFLPA pres Vincent) because likely his teammates thought it was out of line for a player to melt down in mid game because another player has supplanted him as the go-to guy.

 

Perhaps it would have been different if Moulds were not on the backside of his career (he is good but is bear the point where if you are not Jerry Rice you need to look at other occupations or if Evans didn't produce well. Evans might turnout to be not #WR material, but it would seem quite difficult to be an advocate for Moulds still being #1quality WR fir us and ignore how few of his teammates came o his defense last year and when you compare Evans first two years of output to Moulds, one can be quite confident that Evans can do the job.

 

As far as Reed I know of no one who sees him as our #2 in 06. Price's failure as #1 in AT makes it pretty certain it would be a bad move to slot him at #1 here. But this is not the plan here at all since the hope is that he will return 04 form he already had in accomplishing #2 prodcutoon.

 

There are two big wildcards in whether this will happen iMHO and they are:

 

A. Health- Here I trust the Bills docs as they have shown with their diagnosis of WMs injury that ran counter to the convetional wisdom and their management of numberous Bills nicks they are on their game. The Bills laying out some substantial bonus bucks indicates a pretty good degree of medical confidence.

 

B. Scheme- I think folks who complaik pf PP being a wimp and whiner when he was here are simply stating an opinion which is unsupported by the facts when he was here. PP built on his number of catches, yards and TDs each year he was here. If you diagree simply check the stats and if you have a negative opinion of him then state why the facts of production do not count. In addition, anedotally, my recollection is that the fumbles he had consistently occured when he was struggling for a couple of meaningless extra yards when the first hit slowed but did not bring him down. I wished he had been more of a wimp because of he went down more easily we might have kept the ball.

 

Overall, the scheme issue is that he got 96 recepts as a number 2 in signiificant part because Moulds drew a double which forced opponent to deal with his speed one on one. In addition, Centers was a great safety valve which made it hard for LBs to cheat toward him.

 

However, the Bills decision to apparently relicate the St. Louis O style helps out a lot because though Evans does not have the athleticism of Moulds, Evans, PP, and Parrish present scary scary speed that will make Bills 3 WR sets difficult to defense and will give PP similar scheme benefits that playing opposite Moulds provided.

 

Our WR alignment has many unknows, but in addition the proven speed of these three, Reed will actually need to be a credible #4 along with Aiken and the unknown Davis who some talk of as being a credible #2 even (though I doubt it). While there certainly are no guarantees, it seems to me to be a small but equa;;u possible chance that this crew will be excellent as likely be a total flameout.

 

I do not expect them to in fact be great but likewise I do not worry that they will totally flameout though both things are possible.

 

2. TE- Folks got all in a lather about the potential of Vernon Davis showed at the Combine, but though I hope he is great I did not see us building around a TE anyway and I though having a great receiver at TE is great I do not see it as essemtial at all as most teams do not have a stud catch guy at TE anyway and seem to survive nicely,

 

I did not see Royal at the Skins last year so accepting your judgement of him being mediocre is not something I would rail against. However, I did see Campbell for the Bills last year and with exception of a couple of very good games on his part, I also can see how getting a mediocre player may well be an upgrade for the Bills at TE.

 

The one thing which gives me pause about your indictment or disdain for Royal is that all signs seem to point toward Joe Gibbs and the Skins wanting him back. Perhaps you are right and he is mediocre, but if you are right and given what the market led by assessments by Gibbs and Bills indicate then mediocre will probably be adequate for us in the O scheme we are running.

 

It would be dumb to expect Everett to be a stud, but it also seems dumb to write him off. Yes he is always been injured as a pro, but given that his pro career has consisted all of one season even with a nick which held him out of some practices at the voluntary minicamp it seems silly to use the word "always" with any meaning. Euhus is also a 4 rounder who did not recover to his original form after a surgey requiring injury ended his rookie season, He is not someone you count on but not someone you inelligenly write off either.

 

You must have some positive feeling about Cieslak I do not have because rather than considering him a serious option I considered him camp fodder. Perhaps you are right that the Bills consider him to be part of our plans as he is second on the depth chart, but if we do keep 4 TEs (I hope we do not, I see Neufeld with his flexibility as an H-back and ST chops as our back-up long snapper to be a better choice than Cieslak.

 

I think TE can be important to a particular O scheme, but with our apparent O scheme I think we are helped more by a good blocker than a good cathcer (in the Remeirsma mold since having a multi0dimensional guy like a Gonzalez is a pipe dream with the salary cap).

 

3. On D there are in fact big questions about the DL, but it seems the braintrusts answer is going to be some scheme thing where I suspect the Bills D is going to do something a bit different than the norm since we are loaded up with undersizedand three technique DTs (the top four DTs on the depth chart have a top listed weight of 304 lbs) and we cannot play as best as I can tell a traditional running stopping D which relies on a big prescence like Big Ted or Phat Pat.

 

If the braintrust can come up with something workable then it will be good, but if they can it will be bad. Given that Jauron is a D soecialist HC whi ince got NFL Coacg if the Year honors for his work, Levy has always emphasized run and stop the run and Fewell has experience making a Cover 2 work, I think that a bias toward figuring this will work is intelligent.

 

I think Bills fans have reasonable reasons to be optimistic and I think that some Bills fans will complain virtually regardless of what is happening. I think one can be optimistic about this situation without being nuts.

[5 Wide]

I agree with Pyrite that there is an enormous difference between building a team and drafting for value. In the past, if we needed to pull a stump, the obvious choice would be to draft a big ol diesel truck. But if there was a Ferarri still on the board, well then that was too good to pass up. Eventually you have 4 Ferrarri's sitting in the garage, you only drive 2 of them and your stump is still in the ground. I like the direction the club is taking and I am cautiously optimistic for what the next several seasons hold.

[OnTheRocks]

i think the only NFL talking head on ESPN that has an ounce of credability is Ron Jaworski. Anyone else is just a schlep collecting a paycheck.

[drnykterstein]

hey TC, after seeing that title 20 times, i finally just got the pun.

 

that was stupid.

[AJ1]

i think the only NFL talking head on ESPN that has an ounce of credability is Ron Jaworski.    Anyone else is just a schlep collecting a paycheck.

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I know this is in the hope-for-a-miracle category, but an opening win by the Bills this season would be priceless beyond compare. Listening to the 'expert' commentary after such a result would be unimaginable ecstasy.

[rastabillz]

Battlebots, 'Nuff said.

[CajunBillsBacker]

did someone say salisbury steaks? I'll take mine with gravy over mash potatoes, please!

[mary owen]

i think the only NFL talking head on ESPN that has an ounce of credability is Ron Jaworski.    Anyone else is just a schlep collecting a paycheck.

696510[/snapback]

 

 

you got that right. Jaws breaks down film and dissects every nuance of every offense and defense. That Edge NFL Matchup show would be great if he didn't have to sit there with Hodge.......and if it wasn't on ESPN2.

 

I always thought he should be the analyst part of the commentating trio for MNF.

He's a hyper mofo too.....real passionate about the X's and O's of professional football.

[Scraps]

1. WR- Moulds was supplanted as the #1 WR last year in the second Miami game and proved it by throwing a hissyfit after Evans scored 3 TDs with Moulds (historically a Fish burner) used as a mere decoy.

 

It seems to me that few Bills stepped out to support him (including NFLPA pres Vincent) because likely his teammates thought it was out of line for a player to melt down in mid game because another player has supplanted him as the go-to guy.

 

Perhaps it would have been different if Moulds were not on the backside of his career (he is good but is bear the point where if you are not Jerry Rice you need to look at other occupations or if Evans didn't produce well.  Evans might turnout to be not #WR material, but it would seem quite difficult to be an advocate for Moulds still being #1quality WR fir us and ignore how few of his teammates came o his defense last year and when you compare Evans first two years of output to Moulds, one can be quite confident that Evans can do the job.

 

As far as Reed I know of no one who sees him as our #2 in 06. Price's failure as #1 in AT makes it pretty certain it would be a bad move to slot him at #1 here. But this is not the plan here at all since the hope is that he will return 04 form he already had in accomplishing #2 prodcutoon.

 

There are two big wildcards in whether this will happen iMHO and they are:

 

A. Health- Here I trust the Bills docs as they have shown with their diagnosis of WMs injury that ran counter to the convetional wisdom and their management of numberous Bills nicks they are on their game. The Bills laying out some substantial bonus bucks indicates a pretty good degree of medical confidence.

 

B. Scheme- I think folks who complaik pf PP being a wimp and whiner when he was here are simply stating an opinion which is unsupported by the facts when he was here.  PP built on his number of catches, yards and TDs each year he was here. If you diagree simply check the stats and if you have a negative opinion of him then state why the facts of production do not count. In addition, anedotally, my recollection is that the fumbles he had consistently occured when he was struggling for a couple of meaningless extra yards when the first hit slowed but did not bring him down.  I wished he had been more of a wimp because of he went down more easily we might have kept the ball.

 

Overall, the scheme issue is that he got 96 recepts as a number 2 in signiificant part because Moulds drew a double which forced opponent to deal with his speed one on one. In addition, Centers was a great safety valve which made it hard for LBs to cheat toward him.

 

However, the Bills decision to apparently relicate the St. Louis O style helps out a lot because though Evans does not have the athleticism of Moulds, Evans, PP, and Parrish present scary scary speed that will make Bills 3 WR sets difficult to defense and will give PP similar scheme benefits that playing opposite Moulds provided.

 

Our WR alignment has many unknows, but in addition the proven speed of these three, Reed will actually need to be a credible #4 along with Aiken and the unknown Davis who some talk of as being a credible #2 even (though I doubt it). While there certainly are no guarantees, it seems to me to be a small but equa;;u possible chance that this crew will be excellent as likely be a total flameout.

 

I do not expect them to in fact be great but likewise I do not worry that they will totally flameout though both things are possible.

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I find it absolutley astonishing that anyone would think we are not weaker at wide receiver. For your numerous pages of rationalization, one only has to look at how bad our offense was in Miami, after Moulds was on the bench, and the following week in New England to know that as a receiver or decoy, he was a huge part of our offense and it was anemic without him.

 

You may not have read about any Bills supporting him but I recally Bills wide outs saying that the Bills were a different team without him, he took pressure off of them and they needed him.

 

The fact that Peerless Price couldn't get a decent look elsewhere pretty much tells me all I have to know about his skills at this point. He was given a sweetheart deal but there is no way that he will draw the double teams like Moulds did.

 

While you might like the Bills having a St Louis O, I am not. Unlike St Louis, the Bills do not play in a dome. Having at least one big physical receiver who can use his body to get position on a DB and get a reception is a huge plus, especially for a team that often times plays in inclement weather. Moulds could do that. Our smurfs can not.

 

3. On D there are in fact big questions about the DL, but it seems the braintrusts answer is going to be some scheme thing where I suspect the Bills D is going to do something a bit different than the norm since we are loaded up with undersizedand three technique DTs (the top four DTs on the depth chart have a top listed weight of 304 lbs) and we cannot play as best as I can tell a traditional running stopping D which relies on a big prescence like Big Ted or Phat Pat.

 

If the braintrust can come up with something workable then it will be good, but if they can it will be bad. Given that Jauron is a D soecialist HC whi ince got NFL Coacg if the Year honors for his work, Levy has always emphasized run and stop the run and Fewell has experience making a Cover 2 work, I think that a bias toward figuring this will work is intelligent.

 

How good was Levy at stopping the run in 4 Super Bowls? I'm not convinced that there is a singlen Bills DL on this team that could have cracked the starting line up in the Super Bowl years. I didn't like his undersized tackles then and expect to see running backs running right up the gut again this year. Levy's talk about stopping the run is little more that a cliche. Talk about brain trusts all you want but bulk and strength at the point of attack are a big plus and we don't have it. Given our smallish LBs and a rookie SS, it ain't looking pretty.

 

I said it before and I'll say it again, this a 3-13 team.