Ghost of BiB Posted March 17, 2006 Share Posted March 17, 2006 I go up once or twice per year. It has it's issues, but Buffalo even has a lot of nice areas, especially north towns area. It has lost a lot of it's ethnicity, which is too bad. Also, there still seems to be the old industrial union mentality even in the Mighty taco workers. A lot of what you see here is typical, the whoa is me and the guvment / management is screwing me. Butthere are also a lot of smart people, who are trying there best to make things better, which I don;t think you see too much of Appalachia. The problem is the ones always bitching / looking for the handouts and really a major drag on the ones trying to make it better who just get beaten down by the deluge of taxes that get imposed. 633822[/snapback] Buffalo/NYS taxes were trouble when I left. I can only imagine the horror, now. I really enjoyed growing up there, but I could never imagine moving back. It was dying then, and people didn't see it. I'm sorry for putting it so bluntly, but the Unions would take care of everyone. Sort of doesn't work when the company leaves. I like the south. Guess that makes me a traitor. I've dealt with a few companies up that way that are tech, and could bring a change, but they are like Ralph - they try to stay for Buffalo, not because it's good business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slothrop Posted March 17, 2006 Share Posted March 17, 2006 I grew up in Watertown, NY - about 70 miles north of Syracuse. "Appalachia" is a good description. I have always said that if there were a redneck olympiad - the "North Country" could hold its own with the best in W.V., Kentucky, and other Appalachia states. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
\GoBillsInDallas/ Posted March 17, 2006 Author Share Posted March 17, 2006 ...Buffalo even has a lot of nice areas, especially north towns area. It has lost a lot of it's ethnicity, which is too bad. 633822[/snapback] My wife and I were up there last summer on a day trip while staying in Niagara-On-The-Lake. We stoppped at a Tops store to pick up some fresh fruit and nuts (wife loves this food). I asked one of the workers there where the mixed nuts were located in the store, and he told me that "they are down at the end of the SODA aisle". How times change... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted March 17, 2006 Share Posted March 17, 2006 Buffalo/NYS taxes were trouble when I left. I can only imagine the horror, now. I really enjoyed growing up there, but I could never imagine moving back. It was dying then, and people didn't see it. I'm sorry for putting it so bluntly, but the Unions would take care of everyone. Sort of doesn't work when the company leaves. I like the south. Guess that makes me a traitor. I've dealt with a few companies up that way that are tech, and could bring a change, but they are like Ralph - they try to stay for Buffalo, not because it's good business. 633845[/snapback] I guess I was talking to family when I was up there last time. The thing that really shows the problem is back in 1960 Erie County had something like 1.1 million people. Now they have about 950K in the county, yet they employ the same number of county workers, teachers, etc... on town and county salaries. That is asking to take on an additional 10-15 percent take burden for a lot of people that really aren't needed anymore. Add to that the number of people who collect pensions from the county from over the years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted March 18, 2006 Share Posted March 18, 2006 Most corporations don't want to come to a state run by a guy who gets off on the publicity that comes with suing big bad corporations. He doesn't just press charges against the company, he does it in the most flamboyant, public, "look at me" manner possible. If he was a cop you would be crying about police brutality! When a union comits a crime that affects many more people than any corporate scandal, he has no interest in punishing them. There is no good press in punishing a conductor or ticket window attendant. "Come to New York where jobs and businesses are as rare as common sense!" 633694[/snapback] I see, so you think corporations would refuse to locate here, not because Spitzer is prosecuting those who committ crimes but because he does so flamboyantly? So they don't care if they get nailed for breaking the law, just that the lawyer nailing them enjoys it? Okie doke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted March 18, 2006 Share Posted March 18, 2006 I see, so you think corporations would refuse to locate here, not because Spitzer is prosecuting those who committ crimes but because he does so flamboyantly? So they don't care if they get nailed for breaking the law, just that the lawyer nailing them enjoys it? Okie doke. 634180[/snapback] You'll never disappoint me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blzrul Posted March 18, 2006 Share Posted March 18, 2006 actually as usual you are wrong. Rochester although has lost people isn't crummy. and is far being a wasteland. it is going through a growth spurt drawing new business and also seeing current businesses expand. 633532[/snapback] Oh yeah it's booming when 400 people stand in line for hours to get junior or entry-level jobs at Coopervision. Puh-lease. I am still VERY well connected in the Rochester area and was just able to help a friend with advance degree and 4 years of underemployment get hired into my company...beneath her I might add but it's a job that has health care, dental, and a pension. And she no longer has to drive to Geneva and back daily for $10 an hour and no benefits, as she has for the past year. So now she can keep her daughter in college at least. And I don't care to mention the resumes that I still receive from people there who are working cruddy jobs, nor from those whose mantra is "work like a dog and keep your head down" so they don't get fired. I still participate in the "networking" group established by people who got laid off in 2002...many of whom are still looking. So don't tell me how great the economy is, because that's not true. It sounds like the effects of too much Kool Aid. I have many family members still there, like a mother, brother, sister, aunts, cousins etc. All bemoan the situation there, it's really a shame. For people with a job who don't mind that the city closes at 5:30, the roads are full of potholes and the politicians throw money away on bull sh-- like fast ferries and worry that Rochester is a prime target for evildoers (like they'd care) ....it's a great place. And if your idea of a robust social life is meeting up with your pals at Wegmans (try having a conversation without Wegmans somehow creeping into it) or daring to sneak down to the Eastman .... in the heart of the big bad city.....then it's a great place. I lived there for over 30 years and haven't been gone that long. I always thought I might go back, but right now there's nothing to go back to. It's sad, but true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted March 18, 2006 Share Posted March 18, 2006 Oh yeah it's booming when 400 people stand in line for hours to get junior or entry-level jobs at Coopervision. Puh-lease. I am still VERY well connected in the Rochester area and was just able to help a friend with advance degree and 4 years of underemployment get hired into my company...beneath her I might add but it's a job that has health care, dental, and a pension. And she no longer has to drive to Geneva and back daily for $10 an hour and no benefits, as she has for the past year. So now she can keep her daughter in college at least. And I don't care to mention the resumes that I still receive from people there who are working cruddy jobs, nor from those whose mantra is "work like a dog and keep your head down" so they don't get fired. I still participate in the "networking" group established by people who got laid off in 2002...many of whom are still looking. So don't tell me how great the economy is, because that's not true. It sounds like the effects of too much Kool Aid. I have many family members still there, like a mother, brother, sister, aunts, cousins etc. All bemoan the situation there, it's really a shame. For people with a job who don't mind that the city closes at 5:30, the roads are full of potholes and the politicians throw money away on bull sh-- like fast ferries and worry that Rochester is a prime target for evildoers (like they'd care) ....it's a great place. And if your idea of a robust social life is meeting up with your pals at Wegmans (try having a conversation without Wegmans somehow creeping into it) or daring to sneak down to the Eastman .... in the heart of the big bad city.....then it's a great place. I lived there for over 30 years and haven't been gone that long. I always thought I might go back, but right now there's nothing to go back to. It's sad, but true. 634265[/snapback] I don't feel sorry for a damn one of them. Most of the crap in WNY is due to the politicians they voted for and continue to vote for. You found a way out, I found a way out, many posters on this board found a way out. They need to either do something to change it or leave. But to B word about but stay there it is kind of like staying in an abusive marrage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted March 18, 2006 Share Posted March 18, 2006 Oh yeah it's booming when 400 people stand in line for hours to get junior or entry-level jobs at Coopervision. Puh-lease. I am still VERY well connected in the Rochester area and was just able to help a friend with advance degree and 4 years of underemployment get hired into my company...beneath her I might add but it's a job that has health care, dental, and a pension. And she no longer has to drive to Geneva and back daily for $10 an hour and no benefits, as she has for the past year. So now she can keep her daughter in college at least. And I don't care to mention the resumes that I still receive from people there who are working cruddy jobs, nor from those whose mantra is "work like a dog and keep your head down" so they don't get fired. I still participate in the "networking" group established by people who got laid off in 2002...many of whom are still looking. So don't tell me how great the economy is, because that's not true. It sounds like the effects of too much Kool Aid. I have many family members still there, like a mother, brother, sister, aunts, cousins etc. All bemoan the situation there, it's really a shame. For people with a job who don't mind that the city closes at 5:30, the roads are full of potholes and the politicians throw money away on bull sh-- like fast ferries and worry that Rochester is a prime target for evildoers (like they'd care) ....it's a great place. And if your idea of a robust social life is meeting up with your pals at Wegmans (try having a conversation without Wegmans somehow creeping into it) or daring to sneak down to the Eastman .... in the heart of the big bad city.....then it's a great place. I lived there for over 30 years and haven't been gone that long. I always thought I might go back, but right now there's nothing to go back to. It's sad, but true. 634265[/snapback] Debbie, I worked for the last 10 years in Geneva (before going out on my own 1 year ago) and don't know of a single employer there that pays $10/hr without benefits. Do you mind my asking who your friend worked for in Geneva? I will grant you that the Ra-cha-cha economy is not where I would like to see it, but it is NOT the disaster that you make it out to be. I also don't know how to break it to you, but the genius who brought Ra-cha-cha the Fast Ferry is one of your beloved Dems. Had the SOB asked ANYONE at Simon to look into the economics of the project, they would have pointed out to him that there was no way in heck that the thing would be successful without it getting a license to have a casino on board. The jackhole blew ~$40MM on a dream with NO CHANCE WHATSOEVER that it could be successful. By the way, there is a lot left to go back to. With all due respect, I think you have no idea whatsoever what you are talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OGTEleven Posted March 18, 2006 Share Posted March 18, 2006 If by Appalachia he means that the areas are hurting for well-paying jobs and their downtowns look like ghost towns, then it was an appropriate comparison, and I'm glad that a potential governor is taking notice. Utica, Rome, Syracuse, Buffalo, and Niagara Falls are all having tough times. The exception may be Rochester. 633016[/snapback] "If you drive from Schenectady to Niagara...it looks like Appalachia," he said to laughs. Does he mean Niagara Falls? Niagara County? Or is it all the same blob to him once you are over the Tappan Zee? Some of the stuff this guy has done has been very good. I could even argue capitalist. He does have a habit of saying caustic things and a reputation for having vendettas. These are not great qualities for a governor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HereComesTheReignAgain Posted March 18, 2006 Share Posted March 18, 2006 I see, so you think corporations would refuse to locate here, not because Spitzer is prosecuting those who committ crimes but because he does so flamboyantly? So they don't care if they get nailed for breaking the law, just that the lawyer nailing them enjoys it? Okie doke. 634180[/snapback] That's exactly what I mean. When the top politician in a state enjoys embarassing big business it tends to hurt the chances of reeling in companies that are being recruited by many other states. It's fine when you are the AG of the state, but not when you are Governor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnTheRocks Posted March 18, 2006 Share Posted March 18, 2006 Debbie, I worked for the last 10 years in Geneva (before going out on my own 1 year ago) and don't know of a single employer there that pays $10/hr without benefits. Do you mind my asking who your friend worked for in Geneva? I will grant you that the Ra-cha-cha economy is not where I would like to see it, but it is NOT the disaster that you make it out to be. I also don't know how to break it to you, but the genius who brought Ra-cha-cha the Fast Ferry is one of your beloved Dems. Had the SOB asked ANYONE at Simon to look into the economics of the project, they would have pointed out to him that there was no way in heck that the thing would be successful without it getting a license to have a casino on board. The jackhole blew ~$40MM on a dream with NO CHANCE WHATSOEVER that it could be successful. By the way, there is a lot left to go back to. With all due respect, I think you have no idea whatsoever what you are talking about. 634313[/snapback] yeah.....but she has contacts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted March 18, 2006 Share Posted March 18, 2006 I see, so you think corporations would refuse to locate here, not because Spitzer is prosecuting those who committ crimes but because he does so flamboyantly? So they don't care if they get nailed for breaking the law, just that the lawyer nailing them enjoys it? Okie doke. 634180[/snapback] By chance, do you have Spitzer's record of prosecuting corporate crimes in cases that actually go to trial, as opposed to getting settlements before hand? I have my biased view on it. But it would be interesting to see how well the AG fares in court where he has to unearth evidence other than his own press releases. ... waiting impatiently for the NYSE suit... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted March 18, 2006 Share Posted March 18, 2006 This may be a minor point but Allegany, Broome, Cattaraugus, Chautauqua, Chemung, Chenango, Cortland, Delaware, Otsego, Schoharie, Schuyler, Steuben, Tioga, and Tomkins county technically are Appalachia. Who the hell took my Banjo? Nevermind, I left it in my canoe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted March 18, 2006 Share Posted March 18, 2006 This may be a minor point but Allegany, Broome, Cattaraugus, Chautauqua, Chemung, Chenango, Cortland, Delaware, Otsego, Schoharie, Schuyler, Steuben, Tioga, and Tomkins county technically are Appalachia. Who the hell took my Banjo? Nevermind, I left it in my canoe. 634589[/snapback] Sure makes us downstaters feel a lot safer now that they got rid of the last traffic lights on Rte 17. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobblehead Posted March 18, 2006 Share Posted March 18, 2006 By the way, there is a lot left to go back to. link? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blzrul Posted March 18, 2006 Share Posted March 18, 2006 I don't feel sorry for a damn one of them. Most of the crap in WNY is due to the politicians they voted for and continue to vote for. You found a way out, I found a way out, many posters on this board found a way out. They need to either do something to change it or leave. But to B word about but stay there it is kind of like staying in an abusive marrage. 634289[/snapback] It is a sad, sad day when you and I agree about something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blzrul Posted March 18, 2006 Share Posted March 18, 2006 Debbie, I worked for the last 10 years in Geneva (before going out on my own 1 year ago) and don't know of a single employer there that pays $10/hr without benefits. Do you mind my asking who your friend worked for in Geneva? I will grant you that the Ra-cha-cha economy is not where I would like to see it, but it is NOT the disaster that you make it out to be. I also don't know how to break it to you, but the genius who brought Ra-cha-cha the Fast Ferry is one of your beloved Dems. Had the SOB asked ANYONE at Simon to look into the economics of the project, they would have pointed out to him that there was no way in heck that the thing would be successful without it getting a license to have a casino on board. The jackhole blew ~$40MM on a dream with NO CHANCE WHATSOEVER that it could be successful. By the way, there is a lot left to go back to. With all due respect, I think you have no idea whatsoever what you are talking about. 634313[/snapback] Simon, you mean the b-school at the U of R, the same university that caused a furor back in the 80's when they wanted to change their name (Eastman University was one of the options I recall) because "Rochester" evoked images of a "cold, distant outpost" in potential students' minds (which is not a good image apparently). And isn't Simon the same school that caved in when Kodak raised a stink about their admitting someone from Fuji-Xerox (at the time) into an executive program....so Simon withdrew his acceptance, whereupon Simon threatened to withdraw his name and patronage from the school...whereupon Simon got the guy a spot at Wharton, which is a better school anyway... Rochester is a small town, with a narrow, parochial view of the world. It's not the only town like it of course, but it's not a coincidence that such in insulated community is mired in an "inversion" of stagnancy. It's with good reason that the late Curt Gerling (yes I knew him how about that) referred to Rochester as "Smugtown, USA". It's a good place to raise kids, then they leave. And it's a good place to be old. In fact it seems like there are an inordinate number of old people there and when they all die who knows what will be left. I enjoyed living there, I lived in the city and did all the business I could in the city to support it, I volunteered etc and then realized there was much more opportunity to experience life where people embraced change and sought ways to meet challenges and reinvent their communities. Unfortunately Rochester just isn't in that league and I don't see anything changing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted March 18, 2006 Share Posted March 18, 2006 Simon, you mean the b-school at the U of R, the same university that caused a furor back in the 80's when they wanted to change their name (Eastman University was one of the options I recall) because "Rochester" evoked images of a "cold, distant outpost" in potential students' minds (which is not a good image apparently). And isn't Simon the same school that caved in when Kodak raised a stink about their admitting someone from Fuji-Xerox (at the time) into an executive program....so Simon withdrew his acceptance, whereupon Simon threatened to withdraw his name and patronage from the school...whereupon Simon got the guy a spot at Wharton, which is a better school anyway... 634712[/snapback] What in the world does any of that have to do with Bill Johnson being too foolish to get any input into just how horrible of an idea the Fast Ferry that he bought was? I did not live in Rochester in the '80's, so I have no idea if any of what you are asking about occurred or didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of BiB Posted March 18, 2006 Share Posted March 18, 2006 It is a sad, sad day when you and I agree about something. 634708[/snapback] I think more of us agree than just you two. Western NYS is not a place you move to, it's a place you move from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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