nate clements on sirius nfl radio right now

[scribo]

This is what BillsDaily.com had to say about the interview:

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That sounds a whole lot better than the original post in this thread -- not saying which is more accurate.

[Alaska Darin]

I know the coaching staff as a whole was not on the same page as the players, and I know our defense was a HUGE letdown last year, but it still seems odd.  Hasn't Jerry Gray been the one consistency in the coaching staff since Clements became a pro?  It's weird that all of the sudden, after five years, Clements and the rest of the D would not be on the same page with Gray, and it was suddenly a 'bad atmosphere and a bad situation.'

 

I think the 'bad situation' was the fact that they did not get to play San Fran, Arizona, St. Louis, and Cleveland this year.

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Gray has been a puppet most of his time here. First under GW, then with Dick LeBeau (brilliant coach). Last season was the first time he was truly calling his own shots and it's no surprise he fell flat on his "I thought Bubba McDowell had Don Beebe" face.

 

He has shown no ability to adapt his schemes to his personnel. Wade Phillips would have had last season's group performing miracles compared to the crap Jerry Gray put out there. No doubt in my mind.

[smokinandjokin]

Gray has been a puppet most of his time here.  First under GW, then with Dick LeBeau (brilliant coach). 

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'Tis true.

[Dawgg]

He called his own shots 2 seasons ago too, during Mularkey's first year.

 

I suppose that doesn't count because his defense did pretty well and led the league in turnovers.

 

 

Last season was the first time he was truly calling his own shots and it's no surprise he fell flat on his "I thought Bubba McDowell had Don Beebe" face.

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[34-78-83]

He called his own shots 2 seasons ago too, during Mularkey's first year.

 

I suppose that doesn't count because his defense did pretty well and led the league in turnovers.

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'Tis also true

[Kelly the Dog]

Gray has been a puppet most of his time here.  First under GW, then with Dick LeBeau (brilliant coach).  Last season was the first time he was truly calling his own shots and it's no surprise he fell flat on his "I thought Bubba McDowell had Don Beebe" face.

 

He has shown no ability to adapt his schemes to his personnel.  Wade Phillips would have had last season's group performing miracles compared to the crap Jerry Gray put out there.  No doubt in my mind.

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I would say that Gray's first year of "calling his own shots" was the best defense the Bills have had in five seasons. Say all you want about it was GW's defense or it was LeBeau's defense. That's kind of garbage. All coaches defenses (with very few exceptions) are adaptations and fusions of several other previous coach's defenses they worked under. One could argue that Gray never had a chance at his own defense until 2004, and it shined, for the most part. I am not saying he is a great coach, and last year, his defense was deplorable, as was every other element of the team not called special teams. But you can't say that 2004 was not Gray's defense, because it was. And I would bet anything that if he was named a head coach, or a DC this year, he would bring that exact same defense and defensive philosophy to his next job. It may be stupid, it may have weaknesses, but it was "his" defense.

[2003Contenders]

I would say that Gray's first year of "calling his own shots" was the best defense the Bills have had in five seasons. Say all you want about it was GW's defense or it was LeBeau's defense. That's kind of garbage. All coaches defenses (with very few exceptions) are adaptations and fusions of several other previous coach's defenses they worked under. One could argue that Gray never had a chance at his own defense until 2004, and it shined, for the most part. I am not saying he is a great coach, and last year, his defense was deplorable, as was every other element of the team not called special teams. But you can't say that 2004 was not Gray's defense, because it was. And I would bet anything that if he was named a head coach, or a DC this year, he would bring that exact same defense and defensive philosophy to his next job. It may be stupid, it may have weaknesses, but it was "his" defense.

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True. It's amazing how lousy of a coach you appear to be when you lose guys like TKO and Pat Williams. Yes, I know coaches like Belichick have managed to get their teams to play well despite injuries to some of their star players. But maybe that says something more about the overall depth of the football team than the coaching involved. Yet another reason to blame TD.

[Alaska Darin]

I would say that Gray's first year of "calling his own shots" was the best defense the Bills have had in five seasons. Say all you want about it was GW's defense or it was LeBeau's defense. That's kind of garbage. All coaches defenses (with very few exceptions) are adaptations and fusions of several other previous coach's defenses they worked under. One could argue that Gray never had a chance at his own defense until 2004, and it shined, for the most part. I am not saying he is a great coach, and last year, his defense was deplorable, as was every other element of the team not called special teams. But you can't say that 2004 was not Gray's defense, because it was. And I would bet anything that if he was named a head coach, or a DC this year, he would bring that exact same defense and defensive philosophy to his next job. It may be stupid, it may have weaknesses, but it was "his" defense.

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The 2004 defense was a paper tiger. Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. I'd say overall ranking had as much to do with schedule as anything. Were it actually good, there'd be little reason to bring in LeBeau.

 

Lost fourth quarter leads against the Jaguars and Jets, 32 points in Miami with AJ Feeley as the starter, gave up an average of over 400 yards in each game against the Patriots, got manhandled by the Steelers at home in a must win playoff type game.

 

During that season we saw Baltimore, Miami (x2), Jacksonville, Oakland, San Francisco, Cleveland, Arizona, & Cincinnati. Over half of the schedule against teams in the bottom half of total offense when the season was over, including six games against teams that finished TWENTY SIXTH or WORSE.

[Tortured Soul]

you misunderstood. Every player should get paid what they are worth. In the interview Shannon implied that Nate deserves big bucks which I dont agree with. He is our best corner but compared to other corners in the nfl I feel he is middle of the pack. However he thinks he is the top three or four (from his comments) and if the Bills pay him top 3 money they are nuts.

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Every player should get what they can. if somebody is willing to pay them more than they are worth, they should take it. The Bills may be nuts to pay him that much, but some other team will, and Shannon is telling him to go to that team.

[Alaska Darin]

True. It's amazing how lousy of a coach you appear to be when you lose guys like TKO and Pat Williams. Yes, I know coaches like Belichick have managed to get their teams to play well despite injuries to some of their star players. But maybe that says something more about the overall depth of the football team than the coaching involved. Yet another reason to blame TD.

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Right. Because Jerry Gray could hide street free agents as nickle backs with less than three days of practice. Hank Poteat anyone?

[Kelly the Dog]

The 2004 defense was a paper tiger.  Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.  I'd say overall ranking had as much to do with schedule as anything. Were it actually good, there'd be little reason to bring in LeBeau.

 

Lost fourth quarter leads against the Jaguars and Jets, 32 points in Miami with AJ Feeley as the starter, gave up an average of over 400 yards in each game against the Patriots, got manhandled by the Steelers at home in a must win playoff type game.

 

During that season we saw Baltimore, Miami (x2), Jacksonville, Oakland, San Francisco, Cleveland, Arizona,  & Cincinnati.  Over half of the schedule against teams in the bottom half of total offense when the season was over, including six games against teams that finished TWENTY SIXTH or WORSE.

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It was something of paper tiger, for sure, but it was surely better than the GW and LeBeau and Gray defense that preceded it. It got a lot more pressure on the quarterback and it got a lot more turnovers. The Jacksonville game, IMO, was a fluke because of one brainfart by a good player. Otherwise it was a dominating performance. Most great stats defenses pile up those stats against weaker opponents. And the Bills D had some good games, too, against good offensive teams. The fact remains that was the best defense we have seen of the last 5.

[Dawgg]

Week opponents: fair point, but only part of the story.

 

The Bills offense that year was INEPT. Ranked 25th overall in the league, they couldn't score more than 10 points against a decent defense. JG's defense led the league in turnovers, yet even after creating turnovers in opposing territory, we came out with a field goal, AT BEST. Turnovers were not converted into touchdowns and the games were always close -- which has a profound effect on the way you can call a defense.

 

The offense was so inept, the special teams and defense often had to bail them out. You notice in the games in which the offense actually performed (during the winning streak), the defense performed even better... it's much easier when you have a cushion. But when your offense just keeps getting 3 and outs and can't sustain a drive and the defense stays on the field all game long, there's no wonder they gave up some leads in the 4th quarter.

 

But yes, all Jerry Gray's fault.

 

During that season we saw Baltimore, Miami (x2), Jacksonville, Oakland, San Francisco, Cleveland, Arizona,  & Cincinnati.  Over half of the schedule against teams in the bottom half of total offense when the season was over, including six games against teams that finished TWENTY SIXTH or WORSE.

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[Pete]

show Nate the money!

[Alaska Darin]

Week opponents: fair point, but only part of the story.

 

The Bills offense that year was INEPT.  Ranked 25th overall in the league, they couldn't score more than 10 points against a decent defense.  JG's defense led the league in turnovers, yet even after creating turnovers in opposing territory, we came out with a field goal, AT BEST.  Turnovers were not converted into touchdowns and the games were always close -- which has a profound effect on the way you can call a defense.

 

The offense was so inept, the special teams and defense often had to bail them out.  You notice in the games in which the offense actually performed (during the winning streak), the defense performed even better... it's much easier when you have a cushion.  But when your offense just keeps getting 3 and outs and can't sustain a drive and the defense stays on the field all game long, there's no wonder they gave up some leads in the 4th quarter.

 

But yes, all Jerry Gray's fault.

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I never addressed the offense and that point does have merit. Doesn't change the fact that Jerry Gray would leave Nate Clements one-on-one with Jimmy Smith on 4th and forever when you only need one play to win the game, nor his inability to do anything besides "house blitz" when the opposition blows up the weekly defensive plan. But you keep apologizing for him and pretending he can make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. Blather. Blitz. Repeat.

 

It's also alot easier to perform when you're facing AJ Feeley, Quincy Carter, Luke McCown, Cody Pickett, Ken Dorsey, and Josh McCown.

 

Jerry Gray is a mediocre defensive coordinator and it's no surprise to me that his defense underperforms when it matters most - just like he did as a player.

[34-78-83]

Week opponents: fair point, but only part of the story.

 

The Bills offense that year was INEPT.  Ranked 25th overall in the league, they couldn't score more than 10 points against a decent defense.  JG's defense led the league in turnovers, yet even after creating turnovers in opposing territory, we came out with a field goal, AT BEST.  Turnovers were not converted into touchdowns and the games were always close -- which has a profound effect on the way you can call a defense.

 

The offense was so inept, the special teams and defense often had to bail them out.  You notice in the games in which the offense actually performed (during the winning streak), the defense performed even better... it's much easier when you have a cushion.  But when your offense just keeps getting 3 and outs and can't sustain a drive and the defense stays on the field all game long, there's no wonder they gave up some leads in the 4th quarter.

 

But yes, all Jerry Gray's fault.

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Here you go making sense all day again

[Pyrite Gal]

i think folks keep apologizing for Jerry Gray because the indictments of him as being a horrible or even a below average DC simply do not match up with the facts.

 

Jerry Gray is simply not great, nor is he entirely bad or clueless. Like most people he is a mixed bag of doing some things well and some things poorly. The question is if one agrees with this mixed bag are:

 

1. Where are his strengths and where are his weaknesses and can the strengths be emphasized and the weaknesses avoided or compensated for in order to get good results out of a D under his guidance.

 

2. Is a good assessment of this mixed bag simply that he is average, slightly below average or slightly better than average.

 

My sense is that overall that Gray is a slightly better than average DC.

 

He can suck with the worst of them under bad circumstances and the Bills had these circumstances in 2001, 02, and 05.

 

Weaknesses-

 

1. Unlike the great DCs he cannot produce a good result when the O or overarching leadership is bad.

 

DCs like Buddy Ryan with the 85 Bears or Marvin Lewis with the Ravens ran a D that was so dominating it virtually did not matter how positive the O performance was as long as they did not make mistakes the team would dominate. Gray was not only unable to get this performance from his Ds, but he demonstrated that when an idiot like GW was running the O his Ds fell apart in the final minutes or withing the context of dysfunction like when Gilbride ran GWs O, or the Bills melted down under MM, his results were simply bad.

 

2. He is a bit too much a player's coach and depended upon old hands who were players with him lik Jenkins or Robinson at LB to have something left in the tank when they did not.

 

Strengths-

 

1. He proved to be an incredibly quick study as he mastered the LeBeau design zone blitz quickly enough to do quality play calling in 03.

 

2. He demonstrated the ability to learn the gameplanning and adjustment duties quickly also as without LeBeau he demonstrated quslity production in both these aspects of the game in 04.

 

It strikes me as illogical to want to give credit to either GW or LeBeau along for any good things to be said about the Bills D during Gray's time.

 

1. GW is a great DC, but simply is a lousy HC based on his performance. The fact that we suddenly saw vast improvement of the D performance with Gray doing the playcalling when they jettisoned the GW scheme and went to the LeBeau scheme is a pretty clear showing that any 01, 02 failings were as much GW if not more his fault that Gray's.

 

2. LeBeau deserves a ton of credit for the Bills improving his design, but not giving Gray some props for this performance makes no sense.

 

A. If Gray did nothing in 04 and it was all LeBeau's doing why did LeBeau choose to leave. He was not doing the playcalling in 04. If this was an important thing to the D why did he miss it. It was LeBeau\s design and he deserves a lot of credit for this, but it was Gray's playcalling in 03 and he deserves credit for this.

 

B. The claim that the D's improvement in 04 was a residual of LeBeau having been here the year before ignores the fact that LeBeau had no role in individual gameplanning in 04 or in making adjustments during each game. Gray's D produced in this regard as the #2 statistically ranked D in 04. LeBeau whoseD was #1 was better but Gray was pretty good.

 

In addition to not having LeBeau at all in 04 for individual game planning or in game adjustments, the recalibration and retraining of the team which occured in bye week of 04 was all Gray leadership.

 

C. The easier schedule issue is a real one, but if the move to Gray alone from the LeBeau/Gray partnership (folks do not seem to want to even give Gray credit for any good result in 02 actually) actually showed Gray was bad, the team's statistical improvement from being the #5 D in 03 to #2 in 94 is not consistent with these results. There would be a good case if even despite weaker opposition the D only heald its own without LeBeau or dropped to #10 from #5. However, certainly in statistical measures or by the observations of most observers, the D performance actually improved under Gray wihout LeBeau.

 

Definitely it took a downturn in 05, but this seems more to me to be an effect of Gray's weakness in producing great D results in the face of the O being bad or in the face of poor HC leadership.

 

I think that the facts indicate that Gray is at worst an average DC and actually I think he is slightly better than average. However, he was not a great DC by any stretch of the imagination.

 

I think folks keep apologizing for him because those who attack him do so with arguements that simply do not correspond to the facts.

[Dawgg]

Blaming Jerry Gray's scheme for the Jacksonville debacle is pretty shortsighted. The question you have to ask is this: On that 4th down play, was Nate Clements in a position to make a play that would have sealed the game?

 

The answer is an emphatic yes.

 

The fact that Clements went for the INT is more a reflection of a young, cocky (and stupid) player going for the INT instead of knocking it down. In fact, after the game Clements even admitted that JG explicitly told the D to knock anything down on that play. Feel free to blame that on the coordinator.

 

If you want to maintain a selective memory, that's fine. But the fact remains that not many defensive coordinators could have done better given the circumstances. In the last 2 drafts, the Bills selected 13 times. Want to know how many of those picks were spent on the defense? TWO. (Tim Anderson & Eric King). While good teams like the Pats and Colts were fortifying their defense year after year, the Bills spent their picks on glamor positions like WR and RB. Add to that the fact that they signed no free agent help for the defense and they let go of their best interior linemen, it was a recipe for disaster.

 

You can call it an apology for Gray. I call it facts. His defense sucked last year but to trash his entire tenure because of it is just ludicrous. Gregg Williams is a defensive genius... he would not have brought Gray here and made him a coordinator if he didn't think he was solid.

 

 

 

I never addressed the offense and that point does have merit.  Doesn't change the fact that Jerry Gray would leave Nate Clements one-on-one with Jimmy Smith on 4th and forever when you only need one play to win the game, nor his inability to do anything besides "house blitz" when the opposition blows up the weekly defensive plan.  But you keep apologizing for him and pretending he can make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.  Blather.  Blitz.  Repeat.

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[kasper13]

If Clements were anywhere close to being as good as he thinks he is then he would be able to "shut down" WR's like Chris Chambers and the Smiths (Steve, Rod and Jimmy) among others. Fact is, he got torched by Chambers, the San Diego WR's and quite a few others in 2005. Why does he think he deserves more than the franchise tag contract? In my opinion, he doesn't.

 

Anyways, with the Bills going to the cover 2 scheme, a so-called "shut down" CB is not a necessity. You need fast LB's for that scheme to be effective. The Bills would be better off getting a speedy LB or two with Nate's money, drafting a CB in the first few rounds and let some other sucker overpay him.

 

Clements is a punk. He is not a character guy. Some talent and no character. That's a big part of the Bills problem. Marv should see this and say good bye to #22.

[The Dean]

Just a quick observation. I really don't understand all the Nate hate. He certainly had a down year...the entire D did (hell the entire team, except ST, did).

 

But, NC has been a top-echelon CB for several years. (I don't like to talk top 5 or 10 because there are too many diferent situations...and strengths and weaknesses...to rate CBs that specifically, IMO.) He usually got the responsibility for covering the opponents #1 WR without benefit of a stron pass rush and run stopping D. I give him a little slack for last year's performance.

 

In years past, one of the things i like so much about Nate is, when he'd give up a big reception, he'd get VISIBLY upset. He's a proud player that gives his all on the field. A lot of posters here were calling him "playmaker" proudly when the D was good and Nate was making big plays. Now they deride him for that same nickname.

 

Now, I'm not saying we should keep Nate at all costs. But, worst case scenario SHOULD be we franchise him and he plays for the Bills. He is most certainly worth that money. Of course, if we get a great offer and/or can finese a terrific deal and he gets traded, I'll live with that. i understand you sometimes have to let good players go (Winfield, Pat Williams, etc). But, I really don't understand the Nate hate. He deserves better, IMO

[frogger]

We do this every year...

 

Nate doesn't want to be here, don't resign him, He wants money, don't resign him, why can't nate just pay for the love of the game and Buffalo? Add to that, how overpaid players are. et cetera.

 

If we resign him that is great, franny him, fine. Whatever makes us better. I have no emotional attachment to Nate. I think he can turn it on when he wants to.