MaGahee expected to seek new contract?!!!

[Tipster19]

Apparently his contract is a more incentive laden type contract and he wants more guaranteed money. I wonder how Marv will handle this. Looks like he will be tested earlier dealing with big contracts and the salary cap. I for one haven't been too crazy about MaGahee since I started hearing him grumble 2 years ago. You could start seeing some of the handwriting on the wall with this guy and his super agent. I'm not clever enough to figure out all the options on a valid replacement for this guy but if Buffalo could then I wouldn't be too sorry to see him go. We've heard alot about high character guys and players with motors that don't quit for quite some time now but is it too much to ask to ACTUALLY see some of this product. Marv, GO GET SOME PLAYERS THAT WANT TO BE HERE AND THAT DON"T GIVE UP! Darryl Talley where are you?

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

Cliff notes begin:

 

Any arguments which simply choose to ignore the real world production of his making his incentives because they do not like how they perceive his attitude can reasonably be disregarded for only looking at half the facts.

 

Also, any argument that puts this in a false context of a Bills vs. WM battle ignores the fact that an outcome where the Bills give him a big bonus (prompted by and covering the big bucks he will get for making his incentives) can actually be good both for WM and the Bills managing their cap to be a winner.

 

Cliff nottes end.

 

I think the key to this is that McGahee almost certainly hit his incentives as he is the fastest Bills RB to 2000 yards gained rushing (better early production rushing than either Thurman or OJ which if folks want to disregard this fact would seem to render any other arguments they make pretty questionable. I'm not saying this proves without a doubt he is worth big bucks, but to simply ignore this seems just dumb).

 

His achievement of incentives would mean two things assuming that his contract is now huge:

 

1. He has performed in terms of gaining yards. Thus, while foks complaints about his attitude MAY be true (or MAY NOT because folks only really know what the see on the news which MAY be accurate bu MAY NOT be as well) the facts of what he has produced mean a lot more to me than folks perceptions.

 

His power outage when his yards/game really dipped around mid season is troubling, but given that his yards per carry generally stayed above 4, that this production drop certainly was heavily influenced by poor OL play and lousy play calling along with any WM production problems, and it remains unclear whether any production problems he had were caused by injury rather than attitude, it would seem to be a huge leap to write him off.

 

His yards per game did tick up as the Bills O became more effective at the end of the season against Cincy, so simply writing him off would seem shortsighted at best and flat out dumb at worst.

 

2. In terms of contract, it would be a misunderstanding to see this as a contest between the Bills and WM where it hurts the Bills interest to give him a big bonus. We would owe him for incentives anyway. It may well help the Bills interest to give him a big bonus which would allow us to prorate the money we will pay him anyway over the length of the contract.

 

Giving him a big bonus may well be a win/win situation where WM gets even bigger bucks up front in exchange for him hitting his incentives and the Bills get to manage their cap payments in a way that helps us win.

[1gap2gap]

Apparently his contract is a more incentive laden type contract and he wants more guaranteed money. I wonder how Marv will handle this. Looks like he will be tested earlier dealing with big contracts and the salary cap. I for one haven't been too crazy about MaGahee since I started hearing him grumble 2 years ago. You could start seeing some of the handwriting on the wall with this guy and his super agent. I'm not clever enough to figure out all the options on a valid replacement for this guy but if Buffalo could then I wouldn't be too sorry to see him go. We've heard alot about high character guys and players with motors that don't quit for quite some time now but is it too much to ask to ACTUALLY see some of this product. Marv, GO GET SOME PLAYERS THAT WANT TO BE HERE AND DON"T GIVE UP! Darryl Talley where are you?

587298[/snapback]

 

 

Makes me feel like DeAngelo Williams RB Memphis is an option that might remind Marv of Thurman Thomas.

 

It would not surprise me at all if the Bills pick him. I know it would shock some people but not me. Marv is going to look at any impact player at that point of the draft. The first year he is free to do what he wants and he is so excited that I think he wants to make a mark for himself.

 

We might see a few Bills players traded for draft picks also. I do not believe that Marv is married to anybody on this team and if agents start suggesting that players under contract do not want to be here or are un- happy then he just might pull the plug on them and draft young players instead.

 

It would not surprise me at all.

[Tipster19]

I agree with you 1gap2gap, I don't think Marv is obligated to any of the players. Furthermore Magahee and anyone else on this team were constructed in Donahoe's mold, that doesn't neccessarily mean that it's Marv/Jauron's phiposophy. Would it be hateful to select Rondell White if there were a fair compensation for MaGahee? If I remember correctly, MaGahee has seemed too thrilled about being in Buffalo once after he started to find success. This isn't just to pick on MaGahee. I hope Marv/Jauron assembles a team that truly plays like a team and enjoys being a part of this organization. If this could happen, then yea, I would say that this administration is starting to lay the foundation of being successful. It doesn't always have to equate to wins and losses.

[Tortured Soul]

Cliff notes begin:

 

Any arguments which simply choose to ignore the real world production of his making his incentives because they do not like how they perceive his attitude can reasonably be disregarded for only looking at half the facts.

 

Also, any argument that puts this in a false context of a Bills vs. WM battle ignores the fact that an outcome where the Bills give him a big bonus (prompted by and covering the big bucks he will get for making his incentives) can actually be good both for WM and the Bills managing their cap to be a winner.

 

Cliff nottes end.

 

I think the key to this is that McGahee almost certainly hit his incentives as he is the fastest Bills RB to 2000 yards gained rushing (better early production rushing than either Thurman or OJ which if folks want to disregard this fact would seem to render any other arguments they make pretty questionable.  I'm not saying this proves without a doubt he is worth big bucks, but to simply ignore this seems just dumb).

 

His achievement of incentives would mean two things assuming that his contract is now huge:

 

1. He has performed in terms of gaining yards. Thus, while foks complaints about his attitude MAY be true (or MAY NOT because folks only really know what the see on the news which MAY be accurate bu MAY NOT be as well) the facts of what he has produced mean a lot more to me than folks perceptions.

 

His power outage when his yards/game really dipped around mid season is troubling, but given that his yards per carry generally stayed above 4, that this production drop certainly was heavily influenced by poor OL play and lousy play calling along with any WM production problems, and it remains unclear whether any production problems he had were caused by injury rather than attitude, it would seem to be a huge leap to write him off.

 

His yards per game did tick up as the Bills O became more effective at the end of the season against Cincy, so simply writing him off would seem shortsighted at best and flat out dumb at worst.

 

2. In terms of contract, it would be a misunderstanding to see this as a contest between the Bills and WM where it hurts the Bills interest to give him a big bonus.  We would owe him for incentives anyway.  It may well help the Bills interest to give him a big bonus which would allow us to prorate the money we will pay him anyway over the length of the contract.

 

Giving him a big bonus may well be a win/win situation where WM gets even bigger bucks up front in exchange for him hitting his incentives and the Bills get to manage their cap payments in a way that helps us win.

587337[/snapback]

FFS, you seem to cling to this stat of Willis being the fastest Bill to 2,000 yards as the end-all of discussions about Willis to date. It's time to move past this. Willis had a ton of carries. His YPC were 30th in the league. That's not good, that's not average, that's bad. In their second year, Thurman's YPC was 4.2, OJ's was 4.0. McGahee's was 3.8. I know you're going to cry offensive line, but Travis Henry, running behind an equally-poor line, had a 4.4 in his second year. I think the only real way to evaluate a running back, or any football player, is by watching him play, not with any number. I was four years old when Thurman was drafted, and I only remember OJ running in a white Bronco, so the guy I compare McGahee to is Henry. I think Henry looked like the far superior player.

 

So the next question is the line. It takes a special running back to run well behind a bad line, but anyone can run behind a good line. Willis has proved not to be special. And the proof of how easy it is to run behind a good line is Shaun Alexander and Edgerrin James. Both are widely considered top-5 running backs, and yet their teams won't give them contracts. Why? Because they recognize how easy it is to run behind Tarik Glenn and Walter Jones, etc. It has been proved time and again that running backs can be found in later rounds and do not merit top dollar.

 

Which brings us to the money question for Willis. IF he demands a new contract, then I don't see any wat we can give it to him - not when we still don't have a line. Give me a mediocre RB and a Pro Bowl LT over the reverse anyday, not that Willis as shown himself to be a Pro Bowl RB.

[Quester74]

Ummm, here's the quick answer to your questions.. No.

 

Anyone.. or damned near anyone, can be a 1,200 yard / 12 TD runningback with a decent O'line.

 

Hell, look at Emmitt Smith.. he wasn't anything special as a RB.. not extrodinairally fast, not the strongest RB either.. but, when you're 5 yards downfield, before anyone lays a hand on you.. it's easy to make the Hall of Fame.

[MartyBall4Buffalo]

Ummm, here's the quick answer to your questions.. No.

 

Anyone.. or damned near anyone, can be a 1,200 yard / 12 TD runningback with a decent O'line.

 

Hell, look at Emmitt Smith.. he wasn't anything special as a RB.. not extrodinairally fast, not the strongest RB either.. but, when you're 5 yards downfield, before anyone lays a hand on you.. it's easy to make the Hall of Fame.

587361[/snapback]

 

Yeah the nfl's all time leading rusher..... what a bum

 

 

Emmitt Smith was plenty special. No he wasn't fast, but he always kept his legs moving and was a pretty good receiver out of the backfield averaging around 50 receptions per season during his prime Of all the examples you could use this one doesn't fly. He was the face of a franchsise and they built around him accordingly.

 

The guy I'd most compare Willis too is Edgerin James, also not one of the fastest rb's, but is a tough runner, who can also follow his blocks well. The difference being he runs behind the likes of tarik glenn and the rest of the colts oline who have a credible passing game.

 

 

As far as willis wanting a new contract. I haven't heard this said from either willis or rosenhaus, so to me it sounds like pure media speculation. I'm more concerned with building an oline so we can get the most of mcgahees abilities that other teams get out of their rb's. I dont know what people expect willis to do. Jump through hoola hoops. Not many rb's are gonna do that great when they have a horrible passing offense, and no offensive line.

[Lurker]

Hell, look at Emmitt Smith.. he wasn't anything special as a RB.. not extrodinairally fast, not the strongest RB either.. but, when you're 5 yards downfield, before anyone lays a hand on you.. it's easy to make the Hall of Fame.

587361[/snapback]

 

Be careful there. TT got a lot of yards the same way, and had about the same speed as ES. Both guys were plenty special.

[Dante]

Willis shouldnt be renegotiating anything. He's lucky he's getting what he is. Nothing special about him as a running back as far as im concerned. If I were the Bills I would be investing as much cash and time as I can afford into the lines on both sides of the ball.

[ChasBB]

I tend to agree. He is definitely a top-caliber running back, but I think he's the type to put himself ahead of the team. I wonder if winning football games is really that important to him. On the other hand, I'd sure hate to see him racking up yards against us playing for someone else! It's a tough call. Perhaps Levy and Jouron can get him to be a little more team-oriented and focused on just doing his job and becoming better at picking up blitzes in passing situations. His story is incredible. To return to football after what he went through is truly an amazing story and the guy deserves an awful lot of credit for that. That said, he needs to start helping this team win football games. If he does that, then the money will take care of itself.

[sfladave]

I have heard no direct quotes from either Willis or Drew about wanting a new contract this year. Has anyone else?

 

I am not saying that it may not happen, but right now it sounds like some sportswriter is throwing in his 2 cents. Are people jumping to this conclusion based on the KFFL article? It would be wise not to make assumptions from that.

[Kelly the Dog]

I have heard no direct quotes from either Willis or Drew about wanting a new contract this year. Has anyone else?

 

I am not saying that it may not happen, but right now it sounds like some sportswriter is throwing in his 2 cents. Are people jumping to this conclusion based on the KFFL article? It would be wise not to make assumptions from that.

587419[/snapback]

He's got two more years left I think. Coming off a decent but not great season. With a whole new management team that is interested in improving the line-up with some major decisions and changes. Willis is not in any position to start making demands, and I doubt he will. If anything, it will be behind closed doors.

[d_wag]

I have heard no direct quotes from either Willis or Drew about wanting a new contract this year. Has anyone else?

 

I am not saying that it may not happen, but right now it sounds like some sportswriter is throwing in his 2 cents. Are people jumping to this conclusion based on the KFFL article? It would be wise not to make assumptions from that.

587419[/snapback]

 

i agree - a whole lot of noise over nothing at all........

 

wake me up when willis comes begging.......until then it's just speculation.......

[FeelThePede]

If McGahee starts demanding more money after this season then Marv could look into a trade.

 

He doesn't like players like this, with little or no character.

 

Either Willis shapes up his act, or he's out of here.

 

Not too fond those U players.

[Dawgg]

Excellent analysis and well thought out post. I agree completely. I would also add that a large portion of what it takes to be a successful running back is mental. Willis just isn't mentally there at times, which is bothersome.

 

FFS, you seem to cling to this stat of Willis being the fastest Bill to 2,000 yards as the end-all of discussions about Willis to date.  It's time to move past this.  Willis had a ton of carries.  His YPC were 30th in the league.  That's not good, that's not average, that's bad.  In their second year, Thurman's YPC was 4.2, OJ's was 4.0.  McGahee's was 3.8.  I know you're going to cry offensive line, but Travis Henry, running behind an equally-poor line, had a 4.4 in his second year.  I think the only real way to evaluate a running back, or any football player, is by watching him play, not with any number.  I was four years old when Thurman was drafted, and I only remember OJ running in a white Bronco, so the guy I compare McGahee to is Henry.  I think Henry looked like the far superior player.

 

So the next question is the line.  It takes a special running back to run well behind a bad line, but anyone can run behind a good line.  Willis has proved not to be special.  And the proof of how easy it is to run behind a good line is Shaun Alexander and Edgerrin James.  Both are widely considered top-5 running backs, and yet their teams won't give them contracts.  Why?  Because they recognize how easy it is to run behind Tarik Glenn and Walter Jones, etc.  It has been proved time and again that running backs can be found in later rounds and do not merit top dollar.

 

Which brings us to the money question for Willis.  IF he demands a new contract, then I don't see any wat we can give it to him - not when we still don't have a line.  Give me a mediocre RB and a Pro Bowl LT over the reverse anyday, not that Willis as shown himself to be a Pro Bowl RB.

587352[/snapback]

[shibuya]

I billieve Willis has more then 2 years left on his original deal. I would say the Bills will tell Willis to show up to camp, work his but off, show he's commited during the season and we'll talk next year.

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

FFS, you seem to cling to this stat of Willis being the fastest Bill to 2,000 yards as the end-all of discussions about Willis to date.  It's time to move past this.  Willis had a ton of carries.  His YPC were 30th in the league.  That's not good, that's not average, that's bad.  In their second year, Thurman's YPC was 4.2, OJ's was 4.0.  McGahee's was 3.8.  I know you're going to cry offensive line, but Travis Henry, running behind an equally-poor line, had a 4.4 in his second year.  I think the only real way to evaluate a running back, or any football player, is by watching him play, not with any number.  I was four years old when Thurman was drafted, and I only remember OJ running in a white Bronco, so the guy I compare McGahee to is Henry.  I think Henry looked like the far superior player.

 

So the next question is the line.  It takes a special running back to run well behind a bad line, but anyone can run behind a good line.  Willis has proved not to be special.  And the proof of how easy it is to run behind a good line is Shaun Alexander and Edgerrin James.  Both are widely considered top-5 running backs, and yet their teams won't give them contracts.  Why?  Because they recognize how easy it is to run behind Tarik Glenn and Walter Jones, etc.  It has been proved time and again that running backs can be found in later rounds and do not merit top dollar.

 

Which brings us to the money question for Willis.  IF he demands a new contract, then I don't see any wat we can give it to him - not when we still don't have a line.  Give me a mediocre RB and a Pro Bowl LT over the reverse anyday, not that Willis as shown himself to be a Pro Bowl RB.

587352[/snapback]

 

THanks for the detailed analysis of the issue, Its one of the great things about TSW. However, if you are going to respond to my points the leadt you could do is quote or paraphrase them correctly rather than taking the Fox News argument approach of:

 

1. Misinterpreting moderates arguments attributing some extreme argument and then dismissing the moderate argument.

 

2. Rather than attempting to fill in any missing parts of an argument with a moderate or logical piece, instead inserting into them some outrageous assumption and attributing that to the original argument.

 

Fpr example you claim that I cite the fact that WM is the fastest Bills back to rush for 2K as the "end of all arguments" when on the contrary, I specifically say in the post you cite:

 

" I'm not saying this proves without a doubt he is worth big bucks, but to simply ignore this seems just dumb)."

 

Rather than making some claim all you need to know about WM is this, I actually chide the orginal post for simply ignoring this point and thus presenting an incomplete view of reality while also specifically acknowledging some clear shortcomings in WMs performance with his downturn in production after mid-season.

 

Perhaps it is just a failure on my part to be clear, but your paraphrasing of my views is flat out incorrect.

 

Next I do think looking at YPC issue is a good thing to do, but you seem to ignore the fact I reference YPC for the specific point in the post of looking at whether WM's downturn after mid-season was all his fault. Ironically, we saw an uptick in WMs YPC during these games versus his YPC over the season. This is the paradoxical events which I state lead not to first questioning the OL performance but questioning the play calling of the now fired Clements and now quit MM. Do you feel that MM and Clements did good offensive play calling dueing our post midseason swoon? If not, do you think playcalling had anything to do with our running game being ineffective? There must be some effect.

 

I think the key fact here to analyze is how WM went from being the #3 RB in yardage gained around mid-season to finish up at #10. My sense is that the questions of changes in play calling, team performance, possible injjury or other issues are far more relevant than a general assessment of his play.

 

Finally it is the contract issue that is the big thing the original post is about. Its lead premise is that because WM hit a bunch of incentives by going over 1000 yards and being our workhorse back )the large number of carries you site) we are talking about money we are already going to pay him and take a cap hit for regardless.

 

My argument is that due to this point what we are talking about here is not some duel between WM and the Bills about how good he is, but actually like the NFL and NFLPA there is a partnership here where a win/win can be found for both parties.

 

Nu lengthening WMs contract we can actually lower his cap hit next year well below the levels we would have if we simply allocate the large amount of # already paid to him and what we owe him under his cureent contract into a single cap year.

 

I think we may well extend WMs contract and pay him a large bonus for doing so because it is the best way to manage our cap (as long as he did not suffer some injury we are not talking about which limits the likelihood that will at least perform as a top 10 rusher in yardage gained every year).

[Scraps]

THanks for the detailed analysis of the issue,  Its one of the great things about TSW.  However, if you are going to respond to my points the leadt you could do is quote or paraphrase them correctly rather than taking the Fox News argument approach of:

 

1. Misinterpreting moderates arguments attributing some extreme argument and then dismissing the moderate argument.

 

2. Rather than attempting to fill in any missing parts of an argument with a moderate or logical piece, instead inserting into them some outrageous assumption and attributing that to the original argument.

 

Fpr example you claim that I cite the fact that WM is the fastest Bills back to rush for 2K as the "end of all arguments" when on the contrary, I specifically say in the post you cite: 

 

" I'm not saying this proves without a doubt he is worth big bucks, but to simply ignore this seems just dumb)."

 

Rather than making some claim all you need to know about WM is this, I actually chide the orginal post for simply ignoring this point and thus presenting an incomplete view of reality while also specifically acknowledging some clear shortcomings in WMs performance with his downturn in production after mid-season.

 

Perhaps it is just a failure on my part to be clear, but your paraphrasing of my views is flat out incorrect.

 

Next I do think looking at YPC issue is a good thing to do, but you seem to ignore the fact I reference YPC for the specific point in the post of looking at whether WM's downturn after mid-season was all his fault.  Ironically, we saw an uptick in WMs YPC during these games versus his YPC over the season.  This is the paradoxical events which I state lead not to first questioning the OL performance but questioning the play calling of the now fired Clements and now quit MM.  Do you feel that MM and Clements did good offensive play calling dueing our post midseason swoon?  If not, do you think playcalling had anything to do with our running game being ineffective?  There must be some effect.

 

I think the key fact here to analyze is how WM went from being the #3 RB in yardage gained around mid-season to finish up at #10.  My sense is that the questions of changes in play calling, team performance, possible injjury or other issues are far more relevant than a general assessment of his play.

 

Finally it is the contract issue that is the big thing the original post is about.  Its lead premise is that because WM hit a bunch of incentives by going over 1000 yards and being our workhorse back )the large number of carries you site) we are talking about money we are already going to pay him and take a cap hit for regardless.

 

My argument is that due to this point what we are talking about here is not some duel between WM and the Bills about how good he is, but actually like the NFL and NFLPA there is a partnership here where a win/win can be found for both parties.

 

Nu lengthening WMs contract we can actually lower his cap hit next year well below the levels we would have if we simply allocate the large amount of # already paid to him and what we owe him under his cureent contract into a single cap year.

 

I think we may well extend WMs contract and pay him a large bonus for doing so because it is the best way to manage our cap (as long as he did not suffer some injury we are not talking about which limits the likelihood that will at least perform as a top 10 rusher in yardage gained every year).

587848[/snapback]

 

Mr Butler? Is that you Mr. Butler? So there is such a thing as reincarnation after all.

[Mikie2times]

How are you arriving at these numbers?

 

Ironically, we saw an up tick in WMs YPC during these games versus his YPC over the season

587848[/snapback]

 

I'm assuming by this you meant his YPC was higher on average for the final 8 weeks then it was for the entire year. I have Willis down for 185 carries for 790 yards in the first 8 games, a 4.27 average. For the final 8 he had 140 carries for 457 yards, a average of 3.26. For the entire year he had 325 carries for 1247 yards for a 3.83 average.

 

So his average actually dropped an entire yard when just comparing the first 8 and last 8, and dropped over a half yard when you compare his entire season to his final 8.

[eball]

He's got two more years left I think. Coming off a decent but not great season. With a whole new management team that is interested in improving the line-up with some major decisions and changes. Willis is not in any position to start making demands, and I doubt he will. If anything, it will be behind closed doors.

587422[/snapback]

I agree. Regardless, I haven't seen a link or heard a soundbite about McGahee's alleged new demands -- I believe TIPSTER is doing nothing more than "supposing" here.

 

Furthermore, Rosenhaus isn't exactly anyone's favorite agent currently. His rep has taken a big hit. Even he has to be smart enough to realize coming to the Bills right now with demands would be a bonehead move.