LabattBlue Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 This is assuming the Bills could find a better replacement, but I'd keep Milloy and dump Vincent. I can't believe how little he contributed as the FS. He is running on empty. Plus, I don't know how accurate the reports are, but I believe in the past it has been reported that Troy is a bit of a locker room lawyer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdelma Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 NEITHER THEY BOTH HAVE HAD IT. LAWYER IS GREATLY OVERPAID. BESIDES GETTING HURT WHAT HAS HE DONE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarthur31 Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 This is assuming the Bills could find a better replacement, but I'd keep Milloy and dump Vincent. I can't believe how little he contributed as the FS. He is running on empty. Plus, I don't know how accurate the reports are, but I believe in the past it has been reported that Troy is a bit of a locker room lawyer. 560540[/snapback] Easy Milloy because we have nobody behind him. NOBODY! TV can be replaced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jokeman Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 Tough call at first was going to say keep Troy and move him back to CB if we lose Nate. Though looking at their base salaries I'd go with keeping Milloy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 Depends. Strictly looking at play, I'd keep Milloy. But if I wanted/needed to free up cap space, (per Clump's latest) cutting Milloy saves $2.75M while cutting Vincent saves only $0.8M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daquixers_is_back Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 ... and who is their to replace either of these players? Keep them here in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 I still think Vincent has something left, just not playing the safety position. The guy still has great speed, and is a bit of a ball hawk. He is just playing out of position. Milloy is sort of up and down, but more the latter. I would keep Vincent around (not a bad one or two year stop gap/nickel back, if the Bills should lose Nate Clements), and let Milloy walk. The safety position is one that needs to be addressed in the off season. I think Vincent is a "character guy", that Marv Levy was talking about. As for the whispers that he is a "locker room lawyer", that says to me that he is a team leader. Don't forget, Jack Kemp described himself as a "locker room lawyer" during his playing days in Buffalo. My guess is that Vincent may have gotten involved somehow in the argument between management and Sam Adams... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 ... and who is their to replace either of these players? Keep them here in my opinion. 560603[/snapback] Why do that? So the Bills can go 6-10 next year instead of 4-12? Better to get rid of the aging vets--all of them--go 4-12, get yourself high draft picks, and build for the future. Unless you want to keep a guy or two around to provide leadership and an example for your younger players. If that's what your up to, go with Vincent instead of Milloy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted January 10, 2006 Author Share Posted January 10, 2006 ... and who is their to replace either of these players? Keep them here in my opinion. 560603[/snapback] There is no one to replace them. I doubt there would be anyone available via free agency, cap cuts, the draft or current players on the roster. What a stupid suggestion on my part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuckeyeBill Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 There's only so much you can do in one year. This offseason: Fix the offensive and defensive lines through the draft and free agency. Next offseason: Fix the secondary (including releasing of Clements if we choose to franchise him this year) I think the Bills are at least 3 years away from being Superbowl capable. Hopefully JP will be hitting his prime then... and people like Baker and Crowell will be Pro-bowl caliber players. Here's to being optimistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyDingo Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 Remember when they were trying to be known as Fire and Ice? lol. Suck and Sucker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 I thought they were part of the trade so we can get Vince Young. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 The importance of the safety position, like center and mlb, has risen in importance in the past few seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanInTexas Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 where is "neither"??? That would be my vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 With a better pass rush,and a better run defense, both Milloy and Vincent will be fine as safeties. Keep them both. It ain't easy playing safety on 2nd and 3 all day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 Why do that? So the Bills can go 6-10 next year instead of 4-12? Better to get rid of the aging vets--all of them--go 4-12, get yourself high draft picks, and build for the future. Unless you want to keep a guy or two around to provide leadership and an example for your younger players. If that's what your up to, go with Vincent instead of Milloy. 560668[/snapback] I thought aging vet Holcomb was our QB of the future who can lead this team to the big game... Should we dump him or is he part of our 4-12 plans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 I thought aging vet Holcomb was our QB of the future who can lead this team to the big game... Should we dump him or is he part of our 4-12 plans? 561267[/snapback] Okay, you got me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Chipper Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 Milloy. He still has value and was in on many tackles and also did a decent job blitzing from his safety position when called upon. His cover skills have gone down however. Put him at ss and let him blitz or cover the backs out of the backfield. Vincent is done and his experience cant make up for his lack of speed. There will be a safety added in the draft hopefuly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fake-Fat Sunny Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 This is assuming the Bills could find a better replacement, but I'd keep Milloy and dump Vincent. I can't believe how little he contributed as the FS. He is running on empty. Plus, I don't know how accurate the reports are, but I believe in the past it has been reported that Troy is a bit of a locker room lawyer. 560540[/snapback] I decided to look at the stats rather than simply go on opinion, as my feelings after watching the 2005 defensive debacle is that I wanted to cut the whole D. I breathed deeply, counted to 10 and then let my football head prevail. Looking at the stats: 1. Surprisingly to me both started 16 games this year which I would not have expected when the season started given that both these "old men" are on the backsides of their careers. 2. Vincent struck me as a ballhawk but it is notable that he tied McGee for the team lead INTs with 4 and he also recovered 2 fumbles. 3. Milloy was credited with over 100 tackles and finished 3rd on the team behind Fletcher and Crowell and Vincent was down on the list with between 60 and 70. I think these totals speak to house they were used with Milloy providing run support but only regstering 1 sack. TV played more of a centerfielder role for the Bills who traditionally have used the safeties a bit more interchangeably than the norm. All in all, i think that Vincent actually showed more production statistically than Milloy. In addition, given that there is a smaller cap hit for Vincent and in a pinch he can be used at either safety and CB, I'd actually keep TV over Milloy if it came down to a choice. The big thing I am holding equal here is how much the HC and position coaches judge they have left which someone who sees them up close and in the trainer's room knows a lot better than us outsiders. If I judge the chances of them gatting injured to be about equal in terms of contribution and a lower cap hit, i clearly keep TV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevewin Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 I went from liking Vincent to being ambivalent to now not minding if he moved on. I just get the sense that he has lost his passion for playing the game - and is only cashing checks at this point and strategizing how to build his corporate empire. I was pretty shocked this tiny quote buried in a recent article didn't get more run: In his role as NFLPA president, Vincent understandably has a pro-player mind-set. There is some thought that in a few areas, like counseling teammates on contract negotiations and playing hurt, that stance had some effect on the Bills' locker room in 2005 To me that's a pretty *huge* statement. That's not leadership - that's cancer. BTW - this is a good opportunity to say Coy Wire Sucks CW < RJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMIEBUF12 Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 i'd keep both players one more year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 I went from liking Vincent to being ambivalent to now not minding if he moved on. I just get the sense that he has lost his passion for playing the game - and is only cashing checks at this point and strategizing how to build his corporate empire. I was pretty shocked this tiny quote buried in a recent article didn't get more run: To me that's a pretty *huge* statement. That's not leadership - that's cancer. BTW - this is a good opportunity to say Coy Wire Sucks CW < RJ 561515[/snapback] An excellent point. In that case, both players should go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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