Mark VI Posted September 14, 2004 Share Posted September 14, 2004 Moulds is still a very good player but has a tendency to drop many easy ones, fumble away others and drive you crazy...especially after watching him make some simply amazing catches... Andre Reed was half the athlete that Moulds was and still was twice the player ! ( Note : I realize most will not agree with Moulds, yet his cap hit, if I recall, is obscene for next season ) Clements just keeps getting toasted long. A great athlete who obviously just doesn't get the fundamental part of the game. There is a time to look back at the QB, a time to INT and and time to knock the ball down. Nate has been giving up A LOT of long passes the last couple of years. McGee and Thomas cannot be any worse. DB is DB. I just think the way his contract is set up, with Losman in the wings, that he is due to leave soon. Losman may be the spark this club has been sorely lacking since the years of Kelly, Thomas, Smith, Talley etc. Hell, even the midget who's name must never be spoken, gave us a supreme spark in 1998. ( I hated him after that ) ... Losman is 5 times the athlete Bledsoe could dream of being. We saw how Brady energized the Patriots. It's not all Brady. It's an energy other good players feed off of and perform at a higher level. That's leadership in a nutshell. Not carrying a team but giving it a spark to make others around you perform better. Plus having "it" between your ears. If MaGahee finds his burst and continues to improve, then we have a good core of Losman, Evans, MaGahee, etc. A line that looks a little better. Euhus could break out at TE. The D will be OK with some turnover. Leave Fletcher and Spikes alone. The D will need some tweeking with the aging Williams and Adams in the middle. Edwards is looking better , Anderson looks promising. Plus we would have the $$ to sign a few FA's , if some overpriced Vets hit the road. So if your looking to make some hard decisions on players after 2004, in order to open up cap space to aquire talent, look no further than Clements, DB and Moulds...That's a huge pile of $$ and could fill multiple holes immediately, especially for a team without a #1 pick... Losman, Evans, McGee are waiting in the wings to replace them. You think that's a huge dropoff ??? Only in overpaid salary and results... If we don't make the playoffs this season, then what's stopping us from pulling the trigger ??? We already know how far we can go with certain players. We need to see how far we can go with younger guys, not players past their prime/overrated and not delivering the goods... I definitely believe a certain core of players should get their last shot this season. If not, quit living in denial/the past and MOVE FORWARD ! It will not be a complete rebuild job. Think of the cap space and FA $$ would have for the March FA signing period ! That would take away the sting of no #1 pick and then some... I throw this out for some lively discussion...but as always... FLAME AWAY ! YOU "LIVING IN DENIAL " BASTARDS ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyT Posted September 14, 2004 Share Posted September 14, 2004 I'm not necessarily a proponent of trading Clements, but "if we were to".....I would be remiss to not point out that Mike McKenzie is a holdout that is definitely available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted September 14, 2004 Share Posted September 14, 2004 Moulds might make some mistakes, but he is still an elite receiver. Clements hot-dogs too much but he is still a playmaker. Let him play out his contract (which is a great value right now) and then make that decision when you know more about McGee and Thomas. As far as Bledsoe goes, once Losman starts to get some snaps in the regular season (injury to Bledsoe, no longer in playoff hunt), Bledsoe's days as a Bill are over. We will see the same thing with Henry in the next couple of weeks with McGahee. McGahee earned more touches from his performance and will keep getting more until he is the #1 back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark VI Posted September 14, 2004 Author Share Posted September 14, 2004 Clements hot-dogs too much but he is still a playmaker. 31314[/snapback] His mistakes far outweigh his " playmaking " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San-O Posted September 14, 2004 Share Posted September 14, 2004 Clements just keeps getting toasted long. A great athlete who obviously just doesn't get the fundamental part of the game. There is a time to look back at the QB, a time to INT and and time to knock the ball down. Nate has been giving up A LOT of long passes the last couple of years. McGee and Thomas cannot be any worse. Is Nate Clements becoming the new Chris Watson. Always involved in a bad play sonewhere along the line. Im starting to wonder if OCs are not starting to realize this in crunch time and go after him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted September 14, 2004 Share Posted September 14, 2004 Moulds is still a very good player but has a tendency to drop many easy ones, fumble away others and drive you crazy...especially after watching him make some simply amazing catches... Andre Reed was half the athlete that Moulds was and still was twice the player ! ( Note : I realize most will not agree with Moulds, yet his cap hit, if I recall, is obscene for next season ) Clements just keeps getting toasted long. A great athlete who obviously just doesn't get the fundamental part of the game. There is a time to look back at the QB, a time to INT and and time to knock the ball down. Nate has been giving up A LOT of long passes the last couple of years. McGee and Thomas cannot be any worse. DB is DB. I just think the way his contract is set up, with Losman in the wings, that he is due to leave soon. Losman may be the spark this club has been sorely lacking since the years of Kelly, Thomas, Smith, Talley etc. Hell, even the midget who's name must never be spoken, gave us a supreme spark in 1998. ( I hated him after that ) ... Losman is 5 times the athlete Bledsoe could dream of being. We saw how Brady energized the Patriots. It's not all Brady. It's an energy other good players feed off of and perform at a higher level. That's leadership in a nutshell. Not carrying a team but giving it a spark to make others around you perform better. Plus having "it" between your ears. If MaGahee finds his burst and continues to improve, then we have a good core of Losman, Evans, MaGahee, etc. A line that looks a little better. Euhus could break out at TE. The D will be OK with some turnover. Leave Fletcher and Spikes alone. The D will need some tweeking with the aging Williams and Adams in the middle. Edwards is looking better , Anderson looks promising. Plus we would have the $$ to sign a few FA's , if some overpriced Vets hit the road. So if your looking to make some hard decisions on players after 2004, in order to open up cap space to aquire talent, look no further than Clements, DB and Moulds...That's a huge pile of $$ and could fill multiple holes immediately, especially for a team without a #1 pick... Losman, Evans, McGee are waiting in the wings to replace them. You think that's a huge dropoff ??? Only in overpaid salary and results... If we don't make the playoffs this season, then what's stopping us from pulling the trigger ??? We already know how far we can go with certain players. We need to see how far we can go with younger guys, not players past their prime/overrated and not delivering the goods... I definitely believe a certain core of players should get their last shot this season. If not, quit living in denial/the past and MOVE FORWARD ! It will not be a complete rebuild job. Think of the cap space and FA $$ would have for the March FA signing period ! That would take away the sting of no #1 pick and then some... I throw this out for some lively discussion...but as always... FLAME AWAY ! YOU "LIVING IN DENIAL " BASTARDS ! 31287[/snapback] >>>FLAME AWAY ! YOU "LIVING IN DENIAL " BASTARDS !<<< No need to flame, but certainly you will agree that timing is what counts. I was one who advocated the trade of Travis Henry to a team desperately in need of a RB, even though they are a divisional opponent. As I recall, you were solidly opposed. You may have been correct, but time will tell. After 1 game, I must point out that TH and WM looked strikingly equal, and that Miami, with or without Henry, appears to be headed straight for a top 10 pick. If there is to be a team that is willing, for whatever reason, to overpay for one of these guys, I will be all for pulling the trigger. We lack a #1 in 05, and it would be great to get one back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted September 14, 2004 Share Posted September 14, 2004 Moulds is still a very good player but has a tendency to drop many easy ones, fumble away others and drive you crazy...especially after watching him make some simply amazing catches... Andre Reed was half the athlete that Moulds was and still was twice the player ! ( Note : I realize most will not agree with Moulds, yet his cap hit, if I recall, is obscene for next season ) Clements just keeps getting toasted long. A great athlete who obviously just doesn't get the fundamental part of the game. There is a time to look back at the QB, a time to INT and and time to knock the ball down. Nate has been giving up A LOT of long passes the last couple of years. McGee and Thomas cannot be any worse. DB is DB. I just think the way his contract is set up, with Losman in the wings, that he is due to leave soon. Losman may be the spark this club has been sorely lacking since the years of Kelly, Thomas, Smith, Talley etc. Hell, even the midget who's name must never be spoken, gave us a supreme spark in 1998. ( I hated him after that ) ... Losman is 5 times the athlete Bledsoe could dream of being. We saw how Brady energized the Patriots. It's not all Brady. It's an energy other good players feed off of and perform at a higher level. That's leadership in a nutshell. Not carrying a team but giving it a spark to make others around you perform better. Plus having "it" between your ears. If MaGahee finds his burst and continues to improve, then we have a good core of Losman, Evans, MaGahee, etc. A line that looks a little better. Euhus could break out at TE. The D will be OK with some turnover. Leave Fletcher and Spikes alone. The D will need some tweeking with the aging Williams and Adams in the middle. Edwards is looking better , Anderson looks promising. Plus we would have the $$ to sign a few FA's , if some overpriced Vets hit the road. So if your looking to make some hard decisions on players after 2004, in order to open up cap space to aquire talent, look no further than Clements, DB and Moulds...That's a huge pile of $$ and could fill multiple holes immediately, especially for a team without a #1 pick... Losman, Evans, McGee are waiting in the wings to replace them. You think that's a huge dropoff ??? Only in overpaid salary and results... If we don't make the playoffs this season, then what's stopping us from pulling the trigger ??? We already know how far we can go with certain players. We need to see how far we can go with younger guys, not players past their prime/overrated and not delivering the goods... I definitely believe a certain core of players should get their last shot this season. If not, quit living in denial/the past and MOVE FORWARD ! It will not be a complete rebuild job. Think of the cap space and FA $$ would have for the March FA signing period ! That would take away the sting of no #1 pick and then some... I throw this out for some lively discussion...but as always... FLAME AWAY ! YOU "LIVING IN DENIAL " BASTARDS ! 31287[/snapback] My god, one week played and someone's already looking towards next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JinVA Posted September 14, 2004 Share Posted September 14, 2004 Regarding Moulds, since the salary cap was instituted I'm a big fan of trading players while they still have some worth, I would expect him to lose a step each year after this season, so it is a good time to trade for a younger up and comer. As far as Clements goes, as much as I hate his "look at me style" I think he is a solid db, however I must mention that I have no idea what is salary is and that could easily change my opinion as far as a trade is concerned. And finally Bledsoe, I doubt very seriously anyone would want to bring him in at his age and current price tag, but if their are any takers, he'd be FTG in my book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted September 14, 2004 Share Posted September 14, 2004 Per clump's chart over at bz, Moulds has a cap hit of 8.75 mil next year. If he has a pro bowl season this year and shows that he has a lot left in the tank, his contract may have to be re-done/extended. That's a mighty big number for 2005. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubes Posted September 14, 2004 Share Posted September 14, 2004 I'll give it a shot (you bastard)... I don't think trading or releasing Clements is necessarily the right move now, despite my distaste for the man and his pea-sized brain. He is still a solid cover corner, and you really can't have too many of those. I'm not ready to turn the reigns over to McGee and Thomas just yet. As for Moulds and Drew, I don't know. I think everyone wants to believe Moulds is really an elite receiver in the NFL, but has he really done much to prove that yet? He's a darn good receiver, but we're not talking about a guy who's going to make play after play when you really need it. I definitely like having the guy on our team, and he does make us better overall, but I for one don't think that his production necessarily warrants his outrageous salary. The same goes for Drew, unfortunately. Although I would rather not do without Clements right now, if I was the GM and I was presented with the option of dropping Drew and Eric and putting all that saved money into quality offensive linemen, I'd think real hard about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajzepp Posted September 14, 2004 Share Posted September 14, 2004 I think after the next few games, we're going to have more to be excited about than we do after the Jax game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34-78-83 Posted September 14, 2004 Share Posted September 14, 2004 Moulds is a perma Bill. He is a huge part of the identity of the Bills. He took a lesser value contract to stay here than what he would have received on the open Market. He will , down the road, be willing to make further ammendments for the team, and other than the injuries, I strongly disagree with your comments about his supposed "drops", etc. He also has been very good with taking younger players under his wing. Clements , generally speaking right now, I would have to agree with you on. He's got so much talent though that it would make it a tough choice still. I'd trade him right now for the hold out corner Mckenzie in Green Bay. DB, I think he has shown alot so far as far as transitioning his game, release time, reads, etc.... I don't think he'll be gone until after the 2005 season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted September 14, 2004 Share Posted September 14, 2004 I'm laughing my ass off at these "we need to trade so and so" posts. First, this is not baseball and second, we have only played ONE GAME for god sakes! C'mon people, get over the Jag loss and get real. No one's getting traded during the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyJay1234 Posted September 14, 2004 Share Posted September 14, 2004 I'm laughing my ass off at these "we need to trade so and so" posts. First, this is not baseball and second, we have only played ONE GAME for god sakes! C'mon people, get over the Jag loss and get real. No one's getting traded during the season. 31360[/snapback] Trades with current players. This is not fantasy football. No one trades in the NFL. So lets stop the maybe we could package Moorman, Sape, Moulds, Clements and everyone else for anyone good. You need two to tango and teams will not let talented player go unless they have a major reason to. Terrell Owens for a mid round pick... The guy needed out of San Fran. Did Ty Law get traded? No. Peerless Price was traded because he wanted out. Drew Bledsoe wanted out. It is ridiculous to speculate about trades in the NFL. Name the last trade a team made for an established player? The Bears and Dolphins. Why? The player would not sign. Ok next deal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snorom Posted September 14, 2004 Share Posted September 14, 2004 ahhh, the continuing pathetic-ness that is the new age Bills fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyT Posted September 14, 2004 Share Posted September 14, 2004 To try to add a bit of perspective here, how many TBDers can honestly remember complaining about Clements' play during the last couple of years. Other than being lumped in the general category of "not creating turnovers" (which was every DB last year) has anyone seriously proposed trading Clements because he was a bad player before last week? I certainly don't recall that. I think we all need to chill a bit and let the season take shape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guesteroo Posted September 14, 2004 Share Posted September 14, 2004 I'm laughing my ass off at these "we need to trade so and so" posts. First, this is not baseball and second, we have only played ONE GAME for god sakes! C'mon people, get over the Jag loss and get real. No one's getting traded during the season. 31360[/snapback] That is correct, dear sir. I think the gist of these threads is more like "Who is earning a disproportionately high salary as compared to his performance." Any one who thinks that a trade is really going to happen during this season before the trade deadline, has been playing too much fantasy football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34-78-83 Posted September 14, 2004 Share Posted September 14, 2004 ahhh, the continuing pathetic-ness that is the new age Bills fan. 31366[/snapback] Hey now, not all the posts above are in total agreeance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JinVA Posted September 14, 2004 Share Posted September 14, 2004 I'm laughing my ass off at these "we need to trade so and so" posts. First, this is not baseball and second, we have only played ONE GAME for god sakes! C'mon people, get over the Jag loss and get real. No one's getting traded during the season. 31360[/snapback] No where did MarkVI or anyone else on this thread say anything about trading a player during the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted September 14, 2004 Share Posted September 14, 2004 No where did MarkVI or anyone else on this thread say anything about trading a player during the season. 31376[/snapback] Whether he wants him traded now or after the season this post is a not so veiled fan's way of lynching a specific player who made a mistake. It is getting to be a little regoddarndiculous with all the trade this guy and that guy posts. I thought people had some sense here, but wanting to trade a guy because of one mistake? That is so wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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