Guest Guesteroo Posted September 14, 2004 Share Posted September 14, 2004 Putting a side the "trade so and so" theme for a minute. . . Who is most disproportionately earning a large salary and isn't playing to that level? 1. Mike Williams 2. Drew Bledsoe 3. Rian Lindell (get him outta here!) Top 5 kicker money for this hound! Geez. 4. Trey Teague (unbelievable salary for a guy who is NOT a center, by all accounts he is a tackle, an average one) And not on this list, but next year, we can't have a back up tailback making the money that Willis gets. He starts here or somewhere else next year, his salary (and ego/mouth/agent) dictate that. Any additions to this list of "salary cap room hog o' lots?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted September 14, 2004 Share Posted September 14, 2004 Name the last trade a team made for an established player? The Bears and Dolphins. Why? The player would not sign. Ok next deal? 31363[/snapback] Seems to me that both Clinton Portis (not to mention Champ Bailey) and Ricky Williams (two established impact players) were traded in recent years. I agree, it doesn't happen a lot, but it is possible. I don't think Drew would bring back a whole hell of a lot in a trade, at this point, especially if he has a mediocre to poor season. More likely, the Bills let him play out his contract (backing up Losman), cut him outright, or deal him away for a minimal return. He will be going into his 13th season, next year. Now Moulds, I agree with Mark on. We could likely get a decent return for him (not a first rounder though because of his age). I like Moulds a lot, and I think he has been a good team leader (particularly when he was drafted with the knock that he was immature), and has far and away been our best receiver the last 6 years. However, I really don't think he is one of the very elite receivers in the leauge, but on the next tier. His play is inconsistant in the clutch, and he makes too many mistakes. Again, I really do like Moulds, but he is not the all-world reciver we sometimes like to think he is. Any any given Sunday, he can be, but not every given Sunday... Now Clements has some to learn still, but I think everyone is way overreacting to his fau paux against the Jags. He may make mistakes, but he is also represents our best chance for the game turning defensive play, IMO. I know they are different positions, but I still think Clements has the potential, as the defense continues to improve, to play the role that Bennett played on our defense, during the Super Bowl run of the early 90's. That being the guy who is always around the ball, and making big plays for the defense. I agree that Clements still needs to grow up some, and nail down his awareness of the game, but lets' not be ready to crucify the guy after one game. Just as conventional opinion seems to be that it takes a WR 3 seasons to establish his NFL potential, I would argue that corner is maybe the toughest position to play in the game. This is his fourth year. He made one bad judgement on Sunday, but don't forget, he looked pretty solid the rest of the game. The entire defense, IMO, needs to calm down a little. Jerry Gray is partly responsible for the out of control nature they play with at times. Lets' see if they are making the same mistakes four or five weeks from now, before we start tearing things apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted September 14, 2004 Share Posted September 14, 2004 1. I don't know what you'll get for Clements 1 year before his contract is up. I think he stays. 2. Moulds definitely has to "adjust" his contract, 8+ M for next year is just too much. I think he'll come through for us. 3. The only way I see Drew staying next year is if he has a big year this year. Only problem is it looks like this O isn't set up for him to put up any kind of numbers. Tough situation for him, I think he's gone 4. Guesteroo is right about Mike Williams. This is definiitely a crossroads year for MW, he needs to step up big & show some dominance to be worth that big $$$ next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark VI Posted September 14, 2004 Author Share Posted September 14, 2004 My god, one week played and someone's already looking towards next year. 31323[/snapback] I'm like TD with the future vision, only without the personnel mistakes... I'm not giving up at all. Just putting a topic out for discussion. I'm hardly popping neck veins. These 3 players account for roughly 12-16 Mil in cap space. Where is Clump, our resident cap expert ? I'm asking for thoughts...that's all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark VI Posted September 14, 2004 Author Share Posted September 14, 2004 4. Guesteroo is right about Mike Williams. This is definiitely a crossroads year for MW, he needs to step up big & show some dominance to be worth that big $$$ next year. 31410[/snapback] I definitely thought of adding him to the formula. He may be asked to take a reduction or be dealt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyJay1234 Posted September 14, 2004 Share Posted September 14, 2004 Seems to me that both Clinton Portis (not to mention Champ Bailey) and Ricky Williams (two established impact players) were traded in recent years. I agree, it doesn't happen a lot, but it is possible. I don't think Drew would bring back a whole hell of a lot in a trade, at this point, especially if he has a mediocre to poor season. More likely, the Bills let him play out his contract (backing up Losman), cut him outright, or deal him away for a minimal return. He will be going into his 13th season, next year. Now Moulds, I agree with Mark on. We could likely get a decent return for him (not a first rounder though because of his age). I like Moulds a lot, and I think he has been a good team leader (particularly when he was drafted with the knock that he was immature), and has far and away been our best receiver the last 6 years. However, I really don't think he is one of the very elite receivers in the leauge, but on the next tier. His play is inconsistant in the clutch, and he makes too many mistakes. Again, I really do like Moulds, but he is not the all-world reciver we sometimes like to think he is. Any any given Sunday, he can be, but not every given Sunday... Now Clements has some to learn still, but I think everyone is way overreacting to his fau paux against the Jags. He may make mistakes, but he is also represents our best chance for the game turning defensive play, IMO. I know they are different positions, but I still think Clements has the potential, as the defense continues to improve, to play the role that Bennett played on our defense, during the Super Bowl run of the early 90's. That being the guy who is always around the ball, and making big plays for the defense. I agree that Clements still needs to grow up some, and nail down his awareness of the game, but lets' not be ready to crucify the guy after one game. Just as conventional opinion seems to be that it takes a WR 3 seasons to establish his NFL potential, I would argue that corner is maybe the toughest position to play in the game. This is his fourth year. He made one bad judgement on Sunday, but don't forget, he looked pretty solid the rest of the game. The entire defense, IMO, needs to calm down a little. Jerry Gray is partly responsible for the out of control nature they play with at times. Lets' see if they are making the same mistakes four or five weeks from now, before we start tearing things apart. 31408[/snapback] Bailey was a holdout and Portis wanted to get paid as well. Trades only happen rarely. Bailey= Top 5 player for Portis Top 5 player. Moulds= 2nd or 3rd round pick Clements=2nd round pick. Get mad. That is the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyJay1234 Posted September 14, 2004 Share Posted September 14, 2004 I definitely thought of adding him to the formula. He may be asked to take a reduction or be dealt. 31412[/snapback] Mike Williams would command a 3rd round pick. Look at Tim Couch. The guy was the 1st pick in the draft. Played fairly well not great. He got cut because the Pack would not give up a 5th round pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark VI Posted September 14, 2004 Author Share Posted September 14, 2004 ahhh, the continuing pathetic-ness that is the new age Bills fan. 31366[/snapback] Been going to the games since the 60's. Does " New Age " make Depends ? I'm almost there.... Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark VI Posted September 14, 2004 Author Share Posted September 14, 2004 I'm laughing my ass off at these "we need to trade so and so" posts. First, this is not baseball and second, we have only played ONE GAME for god sakes! C'mon people, get over the Jag loss and get real. No one's getting traded during the season. 31360[/snapback] I'm talking about after 2004, if we fail to make the playoffs. You did read the post, right ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted September 14, 2004 Share Posted September 14, 2004 I'm talking about after 2004, if we fail to make the playoffs. You did read the post, right ? 31419[/snapback] Bro, why not Henry? Do you render him untouchable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark VI Posted September 14, 2004 Author Share Posted September 14, 2004 No need to flame, but certainly you will agree that timing is what counts. I was one who advocated the trade of Travis Henry to a team desperately in need of a RB, even though they are a divisional opponent. As I recall, you were solidly opposed. 31322[/snapback] Travis makes less than 1 Mil a year, Bill...and Willis was completely unproven. The folks I mention above have huge cap figures next year ( Moulds 8.75 Mil, Bledsoe is 6.3 I believe ). Clements will walk after 2005. Get something for him, rather than nothing. Winfield got a 10 Mil bonus and something like 6-7 Mil a year !...WINFIELD ! Can you imagine what Nate thinks he's getting ! Not from a sober GM with brains, he won't... McGee can take his place. Then we COULD concentrate on OL, DL in Free Agency... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted September 14, 2004 Share Posted September 14, 2004 Mark, your points are sound and well appreciated. I am merely adding that TD passed up a chance for a very possible top 10 pick for Travis Henry. He almost coughed it up yet again in game 1. Personally, I would rather have a top 10 pick that Travis Henry on the Buffalo Bills, salary considerations notwithstanding. How about you brother? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark VI Posted September 14, 2004 Author Share Posted September 14, 2004 Bro, why not Henry? Do you render him untouchable? 31421[/snapback] Bill, I guess I was concentrating more on actual cap savings in my post. If MaGahee does regain a little more speed, Henry will be dealt . Moulds and DB represent the big cap savings. Clements will walk after 2005 and I'm hoping we could get something for a player who clearly isn't worth obscene $$. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyJay1234 Posted September 14, 2004 Share Posted September 14, 2004 Mark, your points are sound and well appreciated. I am merely adding that TD passed up a chance for a very possible top 10 pick for Travis Henry. He almost coughed it up yet again in game 1. Personally, I would rather have a top 10 pick that Travis Henry on the Buffalo Bills, salary considerations notwithstanding. How about you brother? 31433[/snapback] Where did TD pass up a possible Top 10 pick for Travis? I am asking on this one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark VI Posted September 14, 2004 Author Share Posted September 14, 2004 Mark, your points are sound and well appreciated. I am merely adding that TD passed up a chance for a very possible top 10 pick for Travis Henry. He almost coughed it up yet again in game 1. Personally, I would rather have a top 10 pick that Travis Henry on the Buffalo Bills, salary considerations notwithstanding. How about you brother? 31433[/snapback] I agree with your train of thought, although I think Henry would garner only a 2nd round pick. With major trimming of the cap, the FA signing period takes on greater significance in the Cap age. PROVEN PLAYERS are signed to big $$, not unproven rookies, like Mike Williams. The lack of a #1 pick can be replaced with the signing of a top FA... Agreed ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Typical TBD Guy Posted September 14, 2004 Share Posted September 14, 2004 Putting a side the "trade so and so" theme for a minute. . . Who is most disproportionately earning a large salary and isn't playing to that level? 31389[/snapback] 1. Rian Lindell (as you already mentioned) 2. Drew Bledsoe (as you already mentioned) 3. JP Losman (because he's not even playing) 4. Willis McGahee (expensive backup HB) 5. Eric Moulds (overpaid for his actual career production - think about it) 6. Lee Evans (only been 1 game, but so far looks to be a non-factor this season) 7. Mike Williams (as you already mentioned) 8. Trey Teague (as you already mentioned) 9. Lawyer Milloy (only slightly overpaid) As you will notice, 7 of the 9 guys listed happen to be on the offensive side of the ball. TD is clearly getting more "bang for his buck" with the defensive draft picks/free agents. By the way, I'm not trashing Losman, McGahee, and Evans. I'm just saying that currently their first round salaries are much higher than their actual/expected season production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest_eyedog_* Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 Right now there is only one player on this team you could trade and get a 1st rd pick, and thats Clements because of his age and upside. He's a good corner that is still improving and other gm's know it, unlike some around here. But why would you want to trade him as he's coming into his prime ? You'd get a #1 and have to turn around and draft another corner. Moulds would probably get a 2nd, Henry a 2nd or 3rd, and believe it or not I think if they tried to trade fat ass after the season someone would still give a #2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 His mistakes far outweigh his " playmaking " 31317[/snapback] Clements is the Alexei Zhitnik of the Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 1. Rian Lindell (as you already mentioned)2. Drew Bledsoe (as you already mentioned) 3. JP Losman (because he's not even playing) 4. Willis McGahee (expensive backup HB) 5. Eric Moulds (overpaid for his actual career production - think about it) 6. Lee Evans (only been 1 game, but so far looks to be a non-factor this season) 7. Mike Williams (as you already mentioned) 8. Trey Teague (as you already mentioned) 9. Lawyer Milloy (only slightly overpaid) As you will notice, 7 of the 9 guys listed happen to be on the offensive side of the ball. TD is clearly getting more "bang for his buck" with the defensive draft picks/free agents. By the way, I'm not trashing Losman, McGahee, and Evans. I'm just saying that currently their first round salaries are much higher than their actual/expected season production. 31523[/snapback] Willis showed his value on one drive that should have decided the game (friggin' penalty on CV was a garbage call). They knew he was coming and he still moved the sticks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 Willis showed his value on one drive that should have decided the game (friggin' penalty on CV was a garbage call). They knew he was coming and he still moved the sticks. 31605[/snapback] CV bearhugged the defender. Textbook holding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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