This roster is a disaster however…..

[GoBills808]

5 minutes ago, folz said:

 

Not sure I understand what you mean.

 

Josh was a top 10 pick, Keon was a 2nd round pick, but we only traded back 5 spots from #28 in the first round to #33 in the second round (still using our first round pick on him, we just got some extra compensation for the trades). I wasn't trying to say those picks are somehow of equal value, I was just looking at our recent top picks (mostly first rounders, with Keon included because he was our first pick even if it was early second round). I only included Josh and Tremaine in the conversation to point out that they were both kind of projects as well (despite being early- and mid-first round picks---rather than late first round picks). Many teams were scared off by Josh being too raw, bad completion %, etc. And it did take 2-3 years for Josh to develop (even though he showed tons of flashes in those first couple of seasons).

coleman was a second round pick

 

you wouldnt say we used pick #12 to draft allen

[folz]

4 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

coleman was a second round pick

 

you wouldnt say we used pick #12 to draft allen

 

Fair enough.

[GoBills808]

Just now, folz said:

 

Fair enough.

im not trying to be pedantic. i think the way we phrase these things impacts perception

 

if we say we used a first on coleman, the perception is that he's a much bigger miss than what he actually is- a second rd WR who we almost certainly were not enamored of, hence the multiple tradebacks that landed us in that spot

 

 

[Einstein's Dog]

3 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

im not trying to be pedantic. i think the way we phrase these things impacts perception

 

if we say we used a first on coleman, the perception is that he's a much bigger miss than what he actually is- a second rd WR who we almost certainly were not enamored of, hence the multiple tradebacks that landed us in that spot

 

And a second rounder vs first round has a different extension schedule.  I thought it was signaling a higher floor - lower ceiling player - which fit the McConkey hype and not the Coleman profile (Coleman had less time at the position and was considered more of the athlete that needed training). 

 

Didn't mean it wouldn't work out - they moved down several times before taking Cook.

 

But Coleman is starting to look like he could be a huge miss.  The FO just needed a WR2 out of the pick and right now they don't have that, IMO.  G Davis is beating Coleman out.  

[Buffaloflash]

On 12/8/2025 at 7:12 AM, Steptide said:

My fear is that McDermotts defense is really no better than it's ever been. I'll explain. After we went up 11 yesterday, the Bengals get the ball and Burrow just chucks it right down the field in 2 or 3 plays and throws a td to Higgins. If it's the playoffs and we're up with a min or 2 left, I have zero confidence the defense can do anything. I don't know if it's the prevent or what. 

I can't understand the determination not to change defensive play calling when the other team's WRs are basically walking out and finding an open spot in our zone, and waiting there for a 10-20 yard pass?

I also don't understand why these CB (Benford excluded) aren't coached, that to make an interception, you need to look for and find the ball first.

[Shaw66]

4 hours ago, folz said:

You could probably even include Josh and Tremaine Edmunds in that philosophy (even though they were picked earlier in the round). 

 

I think that can work if you really have a feel/like for a player, but not sure that it should be the philosophy every year. Seems a little too boom or bust for my taste. Rousseau and Kincaid are very solid players, Elam did not work out, and things aren't looking great for Keon at the moment. It worked wonderfully with Josh (although he was a top 10 pick) and Tremaine is more like Rousseau/Kincaid (though he was selected mid-round, not late 1st too). I haven't paid too much attention to Tremaine since he left, but watching the Bears game on Sunday I was surprised to hear the announcer call him one of Chicago's superstars (has he been playing that well or was the announcer just glazing?).

 

I think Josh and Edmunds are different. 

 

First, the last sure-fire #1 overall QB in the draft was Peyton Manning. There are essentially no QBs in college who have anything close to showing  everything they need to be star NFL QBs, so that means every QB pick is a bet.  You have to suck it up and bet on someone.  Beane and McDermott understood that Josh was less of a bet than some teams thoughts, but they knew it still was a bet. 

 

Edmunds was definitely a bet, but he was a bet of different kind. First, he didn't have much downside.  It was pretty clear that guy was going to play linebacker on some team, either in the middle or on the outside.  He was just too talented and had too much size to have much bust potential.  So, the bet was sort of risk free - at worst, you're going to get a linebacker who can play, at best you're going to get a Hall of Fame player, a physical freak who had the potential to be talked about with the greatest linebackers of all time.  Elam and Coleman and Kincaid have never been considered to have that kind of upside. 

 

I agree with pretty much all the stuff I didn't quote, by the way. I just think Allen and Edmunds were different. 

[FireChans]

6 hours ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

then we almost lost to a pretty bad chargers team where Josh passed for under 160 also

We almost lost a game we were up 24-6 in the 3rd Q?

 

I think you are conflating the two chargers games in the Allen era.

 

Ultimstely, I wasn’t trying to say there was never a bad offensive game, I just think the 2020 offense was best equipped to make good or great Josh Allen games as easy as possible. The Niners game comes to mind as a team with a very good defense that he just smoked.

 

 

 

6 hours ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

another interesting discussion point is I think there’s been a bit of a swing back towards defense since 2020 so who knows how big of an effect that is having.  This year there’s 4 or 5 teams averaging over 370 yards per game and in 2020 it was half the league.  It’d be interesting to average all teams output but offense seems to be way down 

Does this have anything to do with the change in touchback rules I wonder.

[HardyBoy]

9 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

The first run SB teams had Seymour, McGinnest, Bruschi, Samuels, Ty Law, Vrabel.  That's a pretty stacked Defense--not built for "depth". 

 

And then Tom Brady got paid...