Greg Rousseau has turned out to be a complete slug.

[Avisan]

Groot is a very good player who is appropriately paid for his contributions.

 

The player you want him to be would have been extended for literally double the contract value.

 

I feel like a broken record in these threads, but it doesn't change reality.

[ProcessTruster]

5 hours ago, Kelly to Allen said:

I defended him multiple times. I've compared him to Sean Jones and Charles Mann from the late 80s and early 90s. 

 

With Bosa out it's time for him to take this game over. I'm talking 2-3 sacks, multiple pressures, and causing constant havoc. He has the ability and has flashed the ability. He's 25 now and it's time to be a big time pass rusher.

 

He played at an extremely high level vs KC so I expect the same here, and a little more. 

 

On a side note, we traded up for TJ Sanders and he's fully healthy. He flashed a lot in camp reportedly and looked to be turning a corner vs Pittsburgh. 

 

The ascension of these two is massive for this game and going forward is extremely important. 

 

 

Burrow gets the ball out so quickly, a few batted balls would be good for me.   Neither teams pass rush will do very much damage in this one.   

 

It is possible if Tre, Max and Benford have outstanding games...

[Pecker]

On 11/26/2025 at 4:57 PM, JoshAllin said:

Then can we please have him do a little bit of this too?

The PFF grade wildly fails the eye test. 

[Pecker]

On 11/24/2025 at 5:54 PM, Johnny Hammersticks said:

Yeah.  Complete slug.  Sacks aren’t the only stat that matter for DEs.  🤦🏾‍♂️ 

Maybe we should move him inside to DT! 

[BillsFan130]

6 hours ago, Kelly to Allen said:

I defended him multiple times. I've compared him to Sean Jones and Charles Mann from the late 80s and early 90s. 

 

With Bosa out it's time for him to take this game over. I'm talking 2-3 sacks, multiple pressures, and causing constant havoc. He has the ability and has flashed the ability. He's 25 now and it's time to be a big time pass rusher.

 

He played at an extremely high level vs KC so I expect the same here, and a little more. 

 

On a side note, we traded up for TJ Sanders and he's fully healthy. He flashed a lot in camp reportedly and looked to be turning a corner vs Pittsburgh. 

 

The ascension of these two is massive for this game and going forward is extremely important. 

 

 

I know what you're saying, but I wouldn't get your hopes up With Rousseau taking over a game.

 

He has had some "good" games the last couple years, but when was the last time he really dominated?

 

Probably Arizona season opener last year?

[Simon]

14 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

He has had some "good" games the last couple years, but when was the last time he really dominated?

 

Two weeks ago

[TheyCallMeAndy]

47 minutes ago, Avisan said:

Groot is a very good player who is appropriately paid for his contributions.

 

The player you want him to be would have been extended for literally double the contract value.

 

I feel like a broken record in these threads, but it doesn't change reality.

I felt like this statement was false, but it's actually true: 

 

Groots Cap Hit Ranks

 

2027 - 23m: 14th in the NFL

2028 - 24m: 9th in NFL

2029 - 25m: 6th in NFL

 

Don't be put off by him being a top 10 ranked paid DE either. Top guys are making 40, 50, even 60m, so Groots rankings will fall as new contracts and extensions are done. 
 

He would need to make around 30m a year to enter the top 5, even in 2025. 

Groot is also no slug. He's a 'Robin' pass rusher (needs a Batman) but as a run defender, he's Superman. Easily one of the best in the NFL. 

 

 

[boyst]

I think he's like Chris Kelsey in this defense. I think he was only ever supposed to be what he is now by our scheme and play. We don't pin the DE's ears back and crash the pocket to chase the sacks. We use the DEs to pressure the pocket and linebackers to fill the holes, generate pressure, and drop downhill.

 

By design this defense is not like Cleveland's. Jim Schwartz pins the DE's ears back, shoved a rocket up their ass, unleashes them. This leverages the inside of the line and front of the pocket where you have to commit a linebacker to the pocket and your DT's, IDL to be athletic and shed blocks to keep the backfield from leaking. Without linebackers at good angles and the ability to shed an OL the defense isn't as good as the sum of its part when someone like Garrett is wrecking this havoc.

 

I know terms have changed and the new trend are all these buzzwords these talking heads use where they say the axe comes off the edge in a shade 9 position and the linebacker blablabla. Football is and always has been simple in concept:

 

Disrupt the pocket with your front 4 (with a 34 you use your mike). Set the edge and no outside penetration. Use the LBs to read the play and clean up the disruption. Rely on 3-4 seconds of coverage from your corners.  Use your safety's to not let anything get over top and your strong safety to play the triangle between the corners. 

 

Just play defense.

 

In our defense the scheme it doesn't favor fancy stats. Our sum of all parts is greater than any individual part. And if that means the sum is less than it could be for 1 specific player setting a sack record than so be it. Unfortunately, that's the way it is. But, the benefit is we seldom see a single player being the gross factor of the game being lost.

[nuklz2594]

obviously he ain't Bruce. we need bigger lbs. seems at times there is too much paralysis by analysis. just the defense loose. 

[BillsFan130]

2 hours ago, Simon said:

 

Two weeks ago

He "dominated" the game against Houston with 2 solo tackles, 0 sacks,   0 pass knockdowns and 0 forced fumbles?

 

He played a fundamentally sound game, yes.

 

But our are expectations really that low where we consider that performance, "dominating" and "taking over the game"?

Edited 5 hours ago by BillsFan130

[Mikie2times]

Here is a stack rank by average contract value. Then it shows the sacks, TFL, QB Hits, sum of all 3, then the sum of all 3 divided by games. 

Rousseau is the lowest in the per game count of any DE making what he makes, and you don't find anyone lower than him until you hit Hasson Reddick who is making 6 million less per year. His per game counts put him firmly in the 11-15 million dollar range. 

 

 

Edited 5 hours ago by Mikie2times

[Kelly to Allen]

4 hours ago, BillsFan130 said:

I know what you're saying, but I wouldn't get your hopes up With Rousseau taking over a game.

 

He has had some "good" games the last couple years, but when was the last time he really dominated?

 

Probably Arizona season opener last year?

 

His tape vs KC was dominant imo. 

[Simon]

2 hours ago, BillsFan130 said:

He "dominated" the game against Houston with 2 solo tackles, 0 sacks,   0 pass knockdowns and 0 forced fumbles?

 

He played a fundamentally sound game, yes.

 

But our are expectations really that low where we consider that performance, "dominating" and "taking over the game"?

 

I'm less interested in math than football.

 

He spent the entire game disrupting multiple aspects of their offense, throwing Texan Olinemen all over the place and then made two key plays on 3rd downs in the 4th qrtr that both forced punts and actually gave the Bills a chance to win.

 

And if you want to play the silly math game that you're trying to manipulate to make a terribly inaccurate point, ESPN has him listed #1 on the defense with 6 tackles.

He played outstanding football all night long and there is no massaging of statistics designed to advance an agenda that can alter that fact.

[BillsFan130]

29 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

I'm less interested in math than football.

 

He spent the entire game disrupting multiple aspects of their offense, throwing Texan Olinemen all over the place and then made two key plays on 3rd downs in the 4th qrtr that both forced punts and actually gave the Bills a chance to win.

 

And if you want to play the silly math game that you're trying to manipulate to make a terribly inaccurate point, ESPN has him listed #1 on the defense with 6 tackles.

He played outstanding football all night long and there is no massaging of statistics designed to advance an agenda that can alter that fact.

 

If you think that's dominating a football game from a defensive end, then we have an extremely different definition of what the word, "dominating" means.

[Simon]

3 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

 

If you think that's dominating a football game from a defensive end, then we have an extremely different definition of what the word, "dominating" means.

 

Clearly.

And I would put forth that yours is rooted in math and highlight reels while mine is simply based on actual football. 

You are free to rely on yours to advance your agenda and I am free to rely on mine to discuss what actually happened. 🤷‍♂️

[boyst]

38 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

 

If you think that's dominating a football game from a defensive end, then we have an extremely different definition of what the word, "dominating" means.

Let me guess you dominate your Madden league and send all out blitzes on most downs?

 

The game of football is much different than the sport we watch.

 

It's hilarious to see such takes. Thanks for entertaining me. 

32 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

Clearly.

And I would put forth that yours is rooted in math and highlight reels while mine is simply based on actual football. 

You are free to rely on yours to advance your agenda and I am free to rely on mine to discuss what actually happened. 🤷‍♂️

"Bruce Smith didn't get a sack today, he sucks. 4 weeks in a row no sack"

" He was chipped and then double teamed every time."

" But he didn't get a sack and was always right about to get one before the QB moved up in the pocket."

" He plays 34 DE"

" He only has 7 sacks this year. Phil has 5 and much cheaper. We don't need Bruce."

"Ok"

 

I don't get it. I really don't get it. 

[Mikie2times]

1 hour ago, Simon said:

 

Clearly.

And I would put forth that yours is rooted in math and highlight reels while mine is simply based on actual football. 

You are free to rely on yours to advance your agenda and I am free to rely on mine to discuss what actually happened. 🤷‍♂️

You see the chart I posted over the whole season, relative to his pears. Sacks, TFLs, QB Hits. Underperforming on a per game basis relative to everybody in his pay range. It's not unreasonable to use objective tools in context over large samples vs your subjective view on how sneaky good he is. 

[Simon]

3 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

You see the chart I posted over the whole season, relative to his pears. Sacks, TFLs, QB Hits. Underperforming on a per game basis relative to everybody in his pay range. It's not unreasonable to use objective tools in context over large samples vs your subjective view on how sneaky good he is. 

 

Thank you for more math and less football.

There's nothing sneaky about him being good if you're actually watching him play instead of cherry-picking numbers to advance a narrative you've decided to dedicate yourself to.

[Mikie2times]

11 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

Thank you for more math and less football.

There's nothing sneaky about him being good if you're actually watching him play instead of cherry-picking numbers to advance a narrative you've decided to dedicate yourself to.

 

Yards are math, points are math, sacks are math, tackles for a loss are math, hits are math, wins are math. All of which can be applied objectively against his peers. What goes on in your head can't be applied that way. If he's so good, the traces of that performance would carry over relative to his peers in the "math". He's performing like a 10-15 million dollar player. It's not anymore complicated than that. 

 

 

Edited 51 minutes ago by Mikie2times

[Simon]

1 minute ago, Mikie2times said:

 

Yards are math, points are math, sacks are math, tackles for a loss are math, hits are math, wins are math. All of which can be applied objectively against his peers. What goes on in your head can't be applied that way. If he's so good, the traces of that performance would carry over relative to his peers in the "math". He's performing like a 10-15 million dollar player. It's not anymore complicated than that. 

 

 

 

At what point will you figure out that I simply do not give a shlt about pretend math? 

Good grief....