Socialists crushed in Bolivian Elections

[unbillievable]

Socialism works best in small homogeneous cultures. 

 

You have to have more people contributing than taking. A good "simple" example of this is social security. 

It's the best example of socialism you will find, but it still screws over everyone in the long run. 

 

[B-Man]

 

 

 

No mas, no mas

By Bill Glahn

 

On of the stories I’ve been following is the rise of right-wing (conservative, free-market, whatever you prefer) parties and governments across the world. From the U.K. Guardian,

Bolivia’s presidential election will go to a runoff for the first time, with two rightwing candidates competing for the presidency – marking the end of nearly 20 years of dominance by the leftist Movimiento al Socialismo (Mas).

 

The New York Times describes the leading candidate, Sen. Rodrigo Paz Pereira, 57, as a centrist. In any event, neither finalist is a leftist. Also contested in this election was the Bolivian legislature, both lower house and Senate, and the same anti-leftist trend held.

 

The runoff election for president will be held on October 19.

 

How big a deal was this? The Guardian reports,

Luis Arce, the deeply unpopular Mas president, chose not to seek re-election and instead put forward his interior minister, 36-year-old Eduardo del Castillo, who won just 3.16% of the vote.

 

Adding,

Some analysts described the shift to the right as being part of a broader “rightward turn” across South America, after the victories of Javier Milei in Argentina and Daniel Noboa in Ecuador.

 

https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2025/08/no-mas-no-mas.php

 

 

[Joe Ferguson forever]

59 minutes ago, unbillievable said:

Socialism works best in small homogeneous cultures. 

 

You have to have more people contributing than taking. A good "simple" example of this is social security. 

It's the best example of socialism you will find, but it still screws over everyone in the long run. 

 

Social Security might be just fine if the parties can agree on this

https://www.investopedia.com/two-senators-have-a-new-proposal-to-fix-social-security-11768951

 

I can understand your apprehension however, if you're paying in and they don't find a fix.  
This seems a good idea.

[Big Blitz]

14 hours ago, Joe Ferguson forever said:

yes, a royal scandal is relevant to the success of the country...Prince Andrew's disgusting acts have doomed the UK, too.

 

idiot.

 

No its oil is in addition to the uniqueness of its population.  
 

It ain’t the 3rd world.  

[AverageAllensSuspensor]

1 hour ago, Big Blitz said:

 

No its oil is in addition to the uniqueness of its population.  
 

It ain’t the 3rd world.  

Sweden has oil? Care to tell us where it is? I think Finland, Denmark and Iceland also would like to know where their oil is. 

 

What is unique about our population? Apart from great looks, of course.

[Tommy Callahan]

4 hours ago, AverageAllensSuspensor said:

Sweden has oil? Care to tell us where it is? I think Finland, Denmark and Iceland also would like to know where their oil is. 

 

What is unique about our population? Apart from great looks, of course.

Lots and lots of it. 

Fields on the Norwegian continental shelf - Norwegianpetroleum.no https://share.google/4up6x60EJFXC2L2kh

 

 

[AverageAllensSuspensor]

22 minutes ago, Tommy Callahan said:

Lots and lots of it. 

Fields on the Norwegian continental shelf - Norwegianpetroleum.no https://share.google/4up6x60EJFXC2L2kh

 

 

Norway yes? 

 

I asked about Sweden, Denmark, Finland and Iceland.

 

How does oil in Norway make other Nordic Countries successful?

 

Did you not know they are other countries?!

Edited August 20 by AverageAllensSuspensor

[Tommy Callahan]

7 hours ago, AverageAllensSuspensor said:

Norway yes? 

 

I asked about Sweden, Denmark, Finland and Iceland.

 

How does oil in Norway make other Nordic Countries successful?

 

Did you not know they are other countries?!

Turnover of the crude petroleum and natural gas extraction industry

In 2023, the turnover for the crude petroleum and natural gas extraction industry in Denmark was approximately 1.98 billion Euros.

This represents an increase of around 330 million Euros between 2021 and 2023.

The market size of this industry in Denmark for 2025 is estimated at €9.4 billion. 

State revenue from oil and gas

Between 1972 and 2023, Denmark's state received almost DKK 700 billion in revenue from the oil and gas sector alone.

In 2019, North Sea production contributed around EUR 0.8 billion in revenue.

The total aggregate state revenues from hydrocarbon production in the North Sea between 1972 and 2020 amounted to approximately DKK 544 billion (discounted by GDP-deflator in 2020-level), with DKK 0.8 billion generated in 2020 alone.

State revenue is generated primarily through:Taxation:

Hydrocarbon tax (52%).

Corporate income tax (25%).

Dividends from Nordsøfonden: Nordsøfonden has managed the state's 20% share of all new licenses since 2005 and the state's 20% share of the Dansk Undergrund Consortium (DUC) since July 9, 2012. 

 

Feel free to look it up by any of the ones you mentioned.  

Sweden is a net importer of crude oil, meaning it relies on other countries for its supply. While Sweden has a refining capacity of 454 kb/d, it produces no crude oil domestically. In 2023, Sweden imported around 18 million tonnes of crude oil and was a net exporter of refined products, according to Enerdata. 

Here's a more detailed breakdown: 

No Domestic Production: Sweden does not produce any crude oil.

Import Dependence: Sweden relies on imports to meet its crude oil needs.

Refining Capacity: Sweden has a significant refining capacity, with five refineries and a total capacity of 454 kb/d.

Net Exporter of Refined Products: Despite importing crude oil, Sweden is a net exporter of refined petroleum products.

Major Trading Partners: In 2023, Sweden's main crude oil suppliers were Norway, the United Kingdom, and the United States

[AverageAllensSuspensor]

23 minutes ago, Tommy Callahan said:

Turnover of the crude petroleum and natural gas extraction industry

In 2023, the turnover for the crude petroleum and natural gas extraction industry in Denmark was approximately 1.98 billion Euros.

This represents an increase of around 330 million Euros between 2021 and 2023.

The market size of this industry in Denmark for 2025 is estimated at €9.4 billion. 

State revenue from oil and gas

Between 1972 and 2023, Denmark's state received almost DKK 700 billion in revenue from the oil and gas sector alone.

In 2019, North Sea production contributed around EUR 0.8 billion in revenue.

The total aggregate state revenues from hydrocarbon production in the North Sea between 1972 and 2020 amounted to approximately DKK 544 billion (discounted by GDP-deflator in 2020-level), with DKK 0.8 billion generated in 2020 alone.

State revenue is generated primarily through:Taxation:

Hydrocarbon tax (52%).

Corporate income tax (25%).

Dividends from Nordsøfonden: Nordsøfonden has managed the state's 20% share of all new licenses since 2005 and the state's 20% share of the Dansk Undergrund Consortium (DUC) since July 9, 2012. 

 

Feel free to look it up by any of the ones you mentioned.  

Sweden is a net importer of crude oil, meaning it relies on other countries for its supply. While Sweden has a refining capacity of 454 kb/d, it produces no crude oil domestically. In 2023, Sweden imported around 18 million tonnes of crude oil and was a net exporter of refined products, according to Enerdata. 

Here's a more detailed breakdown: 

No Domestic Production: Sweden does not produce any crude oil.

Import Dependence: Sweden relies on imports to meet its crude oil needs.

Refining Capacity: Sweden has a significant refining capacity, with five refineries and a total capacity of 454 kb/d.

Net Exporter of Refined Products: Despite importing crude oil, Sweden is a net exporter of refined petroleum products.

Major Trading Partners: In 2023, Sweden's main crude oil suppliers were Norway, the United Kingdom, and the United States

 

0,2 % of the Swedish GDP is from oil/refining... We would be totally screwed without it. Surely.

[The Frankish Reich]

17 hours ago, AverageAllensSuspensor said:

Norway yes? 

 

I asked about Sweden, Denmark, Finland and Iceland.

 

How does oil in Norway make other Nordic Countries successful?

 

Did you not know they are other countries?!

I think you already know the answer to your final question here ....

[Big Blitz]

10 hours ago, The Frankish Reich said:

I think you already know the answer to your final question here ....

 

They do almost exactly what we do but don’t import the 3rd world to take domestic jobs and leech off the safety nets Trump supports:

From your own link:
 

 

By providing a social safety net, these countries enable their population to adapt and thrive amid economic changes brought on by globalization.
 

Despite the advantages of the Nordic model, it faces challenges such as an aging population, competition from globalization, and potential disincentives to work.

 

 

Edited August 21 by Big Blitz

[The Frankish Reich]

10 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

 

They do almost exactly what we do but don’t import the 3rd world to take domestic jobs and leech off the safety nets Trump supports:

From your own link:
 

 

By providing a social safety net, these countries enable their population to adapt and thrive amid economic changes brought on by globalization.
 

Despite the advantages of the Nordic model, it faces challenges such as an aging population, competition from globalization, and potential disincentives to work.

 

 

In other words, you didn’t know Sweden is not a significant oil producer. 

[JDHillFan]

13 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

In other words, you didn’t know Sweden is not a significant oil producer. 

For every person that doesn’t know their Scandinavian oil production, there’s another that doesn’t know the population distribution of Canadian Mennonites. Such is PPP. 

[The Frankish Reich]

4 hours ago, JDHillFan said:

For every person that doesn’t know their Scandinavian oil production, there’s another that doesn’t know the population distribution of Canadian Mennonites. Such is PPP. 

Per Capita distribution of Mennonites by province. 

 

 

[JDHillFan]

3 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Per Capita distribution of Mennonites by province. 

 

 

You already told us that Alberta is where most of the Mennonites are. That was totally wrong, as you know, but don’t let that stop you. Otherwise thank you for sharing. 

[AlBUNDY4TDS]

3 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Per Capita distribution of Mennonites by province. 

 

 

Doing the lords work! Thank you.

[The Frankish Reich]

Just now, AlBUNDY4TDS said:

Doing the lords work! Thank you.

Get your measles shot before taking your annual winter vacation in northern Alberta.

[AlBUNDY4TDS]

3 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Get your measles shot before taking your annual winter vacation in northern Alberta.

How dare you, you know I vacation in Southern Alberta!

[ComradeKayAdams]

On 8/19/2025 at 12:47 PM, Joe Ferguson forever said:

Why not.  It's a successful experiment with 21.8 million subjects.  Remember that American Democracy is an experiment as well.  It was highly successful to recently.  I don't think the founding fathers ever imagined someone like trump.

 

American democracy, in my opinion, died with the Citizens United v. FEC decision back in 2010. I’ll concede, however, that it’s neither productive nor healthy to operate in the political realm as if that’s the case. I view Donald Trump as much more a symptom than a cause.

 

I don’t see why population size is even relevant to the question of how a society will respond under social democratic policies. You simply scale up or down all of the nationalized goods and services, depending on the market demand. The far more relevant metric to any proposed Nordic model is probably consumption as a percentage of national GDP. The U.S. economy tends to hover around 70% for private household expenditures, which helps make it a very strong candidate for far-left economic policies.

 

Getting back to the Bolivia topic, since it’s a super interesting one…their country’s current political turmoil has practically nothing to do with the eternal philosophical debate of capitalism vs. socialism. Let’s all think about why Evo Morales and MAS (Movimiento al Socialismo) failed:

 

1. Widespread government corruption: not unique to socialists. Why did the far-left rise to power there in the first place??

2. Internal strife among political factions of MAS: same argument as above.

3. Dangers of having an unbalanced national economy: EASILY the most important reason for the Bolivian far-left’s demise. Their country has long been way too dependent on the influx of U.S. dollars from raw material exports. So when extraction production declines and international market prices also drop on these exported goods, combined with general international inflation on most others goods and services, the entire national economy will inevitably tank. But again…what did the non-socialists do to help diversify the economy while they were previously in power??

4. Various environmental crises that have harmed Bolivia’s economy: poor sustainability practices (related to point # 3), pollution, and civil infrastructure/agriculture damage from a rapidly changing climate. The Bolivian government actually has really good environmental regulations under MAS, but their government is too corrupt and ineffective to enforce them. But yet again…what makes anyone think right-wingers will be better on these issues?? Historically, they are most certainly not!

 

It does look like Bolivia is heading in Argentina’s direction of painful austerity measures, so we’ll see how long that goes until its citizens cycle back to the left. Bolivia’s best economic hope lies with their immense lithium resources, but I have my usual doubts that far-right Bolivian capitalists can impel their nation to efficient lithium extraction without horribly exploiting labor, the land, and indigenous communities. Then again, yes I do understand that the far-left had their share of opportunities to deliver and did not. Such is politics.

[sherpa]

I'll throw in a few thoughts about the Bolivian situation.

I had the opportunity to spend a fair amount of time there, Santa Cruz to be specific.

Never enough to really form an opinion I would strongly assert, but a view nonetheless.

 

Bolivia is comprised of two separate, completely different groups of folks.

The indigenous Andean people, and those who are more involved in industry and economics.

They are completely different groups, complete bifurcation.

 

Evo Morales was a product of the Hugo Chavez movement. He is indigenous and that's fine.

He was definitely disliked by those who provided the economy with the funds to function.

There were times where the place was hours away from a true revolution.

 

Chavez failed miserably.

The aggressive Chavista movement was ultimately rejected by Argentina, Brazil and Paraguay as it's economic disaster became more and more apparent and people got tired of listening to him.

Venezuela and Cuba are not strong selling points to South Americans, in fact if mentioned, it will invoke laughter.

 

Morales made it longer than most, but he never had the support of the people who are Bolivia's economic strength.