McDermott not in Top 10 of NFL coaches per PFF.

[Buffalo Boy]

1 hour ago, SoTier said:

Nothing is guaranteed.

Difference in viewpoint:

Play it safe/ status quo

Go down swinging/ take a chance

 

My biggest fear in life, getting to the end and knowing I could have tried but didn’t. That’s a regret I don’t want.

 

   The closest ( albeit not perfect) comp we have to Josh is Cam. Josh does not play as a normal QB does nor his he used that way.

I have zero expectations that he makes it to his forties. We are playing with fire and when you do eventually you get burned. 
   My guess is he’s got till his mid thirties which means the clock is ticking to get a new guy in and give h a reasonable chance to win it all

Edited July 2 by Buffalo Boy

[Royale with Cheese]

22 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

And 6 seeds are better than 7 seeds. A 7 seed has yet to win an NFL game; granted the majority of AFC 7 seeds have lost to the Bills

 

Are highest seeds always the better team lol?

Are you going to sit here and tell me that the 2024 Bucs as the 3rd seed were better than Commanders because they were the 6th seed?

[uticaclub]

6 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Are highest seeds always the better team lol?

Are you going to sit here and tell me that the 2024 Bucs as the 3rd seed were better than Commanders because they were the 6th seed?

If the higher seed was always better the Super Bowl would just 1 seed vs 1 seed. Were the 6th seed Steelers better than the 3rd seed Ravens?
 

Marty was 1-6 on the road in the playoffs, Sean is 0-5. When is McDermott going to pull of his playoff upset?

[GunnerBill]

39 minutes ago, Buffalo Boy said:

 

 

   The closest ( albeit not perfect) comp we have to Josh is Cam.

 

I reject this entirely. 

6 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

If the higher seed was always better the Super Bowl would just 1 seed vs 1 seed. Were the 6th seed Steelers better than the 3rd seed Ravens?
 

Marty was 1-6 on the road in the playoffs, Sean is 0-5. When is McDermott going to pull of his playoff upset?

 

This is ridiculous. Arguing about what McDermott's record would be if he had played games that never took place is utter madness as an argument for firing him. 

 

We all need to stop the "what if something that hasn't happened or didn't happen had happened" game. And I say that on both sides of the argument. That advances nothing any further. 

 

There is a legitimate disagreement about how the record of what has happened in reality should be viewed. That's fine. You are entitled to your view even if I disagree with its conclusion. But all this hypothetical web weaving is stupid. 

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Gregg said:

 

I know it's not happening as McDermott isn't getting fired anytime soon. 

 

Even if he were the Bills are not hiring Belichick.

[uticaclub]

9 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I reject this entirely. 

 

This is ridiculous. Arguing about what McDermott's record would be if he had played games that never took place is utter madness as an argument for firing him. 

 

We all need to stop the "what if something that hasn't happened or didn't happen had happened" game. And I say that on both sides of the argument. That advances nothing any further. 

 

There is a legitimate disagreement about how the record of what has happened in reality should be viewed. That's fine. You are entitled to your view even if I disagree with its conclusion. But all this hypothetical web weaving is stupid. 

Isn’t a point of the message board to discuss hypothetical scenarios with other people that have a similar interest in the team? What are we suppose to discuss? 

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

Isn’t a point of the message board to discuss hypothetical scenarios with other people that have a similar interest in the team? What are we suppose to discuss? 

 

Stuff that you know, actually happened. Or stuff that might happen in the future. Not create narratives about stuff that we know didn't happen in the past so that we can rewrite history to support out own personal biases. 

[SoTier]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Even if he were the Bills are not hiring Belichick.

 

I think the catch for most NFL teams with Belichick is that he would want control of personnel, and NE's slow decline when he was in charge of personnel proved that he's not very good at the long-term building and managing of a championship roster.  He is a master strategist, a genius at adjusting to unexpected situations, and a motivator, but he's not a particularly good gm type.  He didn't build the great rosters that the Patriots fielded early on in NE's domination alone; he had a couple of GMs who did a lot of the leg work on selecting players, managing the cap etc.   For that reason, I wouldn't want him as the Bills HC.

 

 

[Royale with Cheese]

12 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

Isn’t a point of the message board to discuss hypothetical scenarios with other people that have a similar interest in the team? What are we suppose to discuss? 

 

Message boards aren't exclusively made to talk about hypothetical scenarios.  

Edited July 2 by Royale with Cheese

[Royale with Cheese]

32 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

If the higher seed was always better the Super Bowl would just 1 seed vs 1 seed. Were the 6th seed Steelers better than the 3rd seed Ravens?
 

Marty was 1-6 on the road in the playoffs, Sean is 0-5. When is McDermott going to pull of his playoff upset?

 

LOL

You're the one eliminating all of McDermott's wins against 7th seed teams for your argument!

 

You know the Raven's were road favorites against the Bills last year....I guess that doesn't qualify as an upset.

 

[uticaclub]

11 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Stuff that you know, actually happened. Or stuff that might happen in the future. Not create narratives about stuff that we know didn't happen in the past so that we can rewrite history to support out own personal biases. 

So what did I say that was didn't actually happen? Were the road records incorrect? Was McDermott's record against non 7 seeds incorrect? If you come up with stats and I come with other stats, you can't discredit me because it goes against your narrative.

[FireChans]

2 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

The Bills are hardly at "the point of no return with Josh's career".   In case you hadn't noticed, good/great modern day QBs who take care of their bodies play at a high level into their late 30s/early 40 these days.

 

What would be worse than the Bills not winning a Super Bowl with Josh Allen and Sean McDermott?   How about firing McDermott and hiring one or more HCs who fail to even make the playoffs frequently much less win much for the rest of Allen's career ... while McDermott takes some other team to the Super Bowl and wins?

 

Nothing is guaranteed.

Nothing is guaranteed. 
 

Like Sean McDermott’s improvement as a coach. 100% not guaranteed. He may be a solid coach who gets slapped around every year in the postseason (0-5 vs the Bengals and Chiefs there FYI) and never reaches the mountaintop, despite having an all time great QB, and ultimately remains one of the biggest “what ifs” in NFL history.

 

Some folks want to wait to find out if that’s the case. I’ve seen enough. That’s okay. 

[uticaclub]

1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

LOL

You're the one eliminating all of McDermott's wins against 7th seed teams for your argument!

 

You know the Raven's were road favorites against the Bills last year....I guess that doesn't qualify as an upset.

 

We were the 2 seed, they were the 3 seed. Gamblers had more confidence in Bmore than Buffalo, that's why the line was where it was. The line follows the money, nothing else.

[GunnerBill]

6 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

I think the catch for most NFL teams with Belichick is that he would want control of personnel, and NE's slow decline when he was in charge of personnel proved that he's not very good at the long-term building and managing of a championship roster.  He is a master strategist, a genius at adjusting to unexpected situations, and a motivator, but he's not a particularly good gm type.  He didn't build the great rosters that the Patriots fielded early on in NE's domination alone; he had a couple of GMs who did a lot of the leg work on selecting players, managing the cap etc.   For that reason, I wouldn't want him as the Bills HC.

 

 

 

He did build the roster for the 2nd dynasty though.... and that was a good roster. Their drafting late 00s early 10s was good and that is when he built the core of the team that won the 3 Superbowls vs Seattle, Atlanta and LA. The drafting fell off in about 2013/2014... which does suggest the league had passed him by a bit. I think the rule changes really started to accentuate the physical talent over the football smarts again and Bill didn't really keep up with that. He still wanted to draft guys who work hard, understand their assignment and do their job and then coach them to within an inch of their lives. 

[FireChans]

9 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

I think the catch for most NFL teams with Belichick is that he would want control of personnel, and NE's slow decline when he was in charge of personnel proved that he's not very good at the long-term building and managing of a championship roster.  He is a master strategist, a genius at adjusting to unexpected situations, and a motivator, but he's not a particularly good gm type.  He didn't build the great rosters that the Patriots fielded early on in NE's domination alone; he had a couple of GMs who did a lot of the leg work on selecting players, managing the cap etc.   For that reason, I wouldn't want him as the Bills HC.

 

 

Even if this is true, does it matter?

 

BB proved to be pretty good when Brady was in his prime. Sure it petered off after a million Super Bowls when Tom was 1000 years old but who cares?

 

Is the expectation that we are competing for championships 8-10 years from now when Josh retires? That’s unrealistic with any coach/GM. 
 

Furthermore, Bill won’t be coaching that far into the future. 

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

So what did I say that was didn't actually happen? Were the road records incorrect? Was McDermott's record against non 7 seeds incorrect? If you come up with stats and I come with other stats, you can't discredit me because it goes against your narrative.

 

Nope. You were talking about what might have happened if he hadn't played 7 seeds in the wildcard rounds. But he did. That's what happened.

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

He did build the roster for the 2nd dynasty though.... and that was a good roster. Their drafting late 00s early 10s was good and that is when he built the core of the team that won the 3 Superbowls vs Seattle, Atlanta and LA. The drafting fell off in about 2013/2014... which does suggest the league had passed him by a bit. I think the rule changes really started to accentuate the physical talent over the football smarts again and Bill didn't really keep up with that. He still wanted to draft guys who work hard, understand their assignment and do their job and then coach them to within an inch of their lives. 

Galaxy brain take is that BB converted the 2019-2021 Pats as a power running quick game offense, which was ahead of the curve based on what we saw in 2024.

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

Galaxy brain take is that BB converted the 2019-2021 Pats as a power running quick game offense, which was ahead of the curve based on what we saw in 2024.

 

I don't buy that. That team was so undermanned from a pure talent perspective. It wasn't just schematic or style. It was talent. Bill had failed to keep up with identifying the right guys to play in the 2020s NFL. He actually coached them up pretty good still. The Mac Jones year was in his top 5 coaching jobs as Pats HC imo. 

[uticaclub]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Nope. You were talking about what might have happened if he hadn't played 7 seeds in the wildcard rounds. But he did. That's what happened.

I never stated "what might have happened." Instead, I simply excluded the games that McDermott coached against 7-seed teams that Marty did not coach and win against, which could inflate a playoff record. When the argument is that McDermott is far superior to Schottenheimer, I will present information that counters that claim. You could have argued, "Well, we would have had a bye instead of playing a 7-seed," which would lead to a different discussion. However, you seem intent on dismissing anything that contradicts your narrative and telling others how to use a message board, even when they are being respectful.

[GunnerBill]

7 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

I never stated "what might have happened." Instead, I simply excluded the games that McDermott coached against 7-seed teams that Marty did not coach and win against, which could inflate a playoff record. When the argument is that McDermott is far superior to Schottenheimer, I will present information that counters that claim. You could have argued, "Well, we would have had a bye instead of playing a 7-seed," which would lead to a different discussion. However, you seem intent on dismissing anything that contradicts your narrative and telling others how to use a message board, even when they are being respectful.

 

No I'm not. I'm saying creating stawman "what ifs" does nothing to further the discussion either way. Whether they are including things that didn't happen or excluding things that did. The record is the record. 

Edited July 2 by GunnerBill