McDermott not in Top 10 of NFL coaches per PFF.

[Royale with Cheese]

3 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Yes. They would.

 

We have seen what Adam and Nat Hackett were able to do with elite QBs.  Oversee elite offenses and MVP seasons. That wins you lots of division titles, especially with the other crappy QBs in the conference.

 

I am only replying to this so everyone can see this post.  Adam Gase and Nate Hackett would be as successful as McDermott.

 

 

 

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

I cannot disagree more. 

 

Their defense got a MASSIVE upgrade going from Del Rio to Phillips.  Their defensive DVOA was like the best by a SB winner in a decade (slightly better than the 13 Seahawks even) despite being middle of the road the year previous. They were first in yards and points per drive, after being 13th in points per drive the year previous.

 

The offense took a significant step back because Peyton lost his arm seemingly overnight but that wasn't schematic. 

 

In 2014, they allowed 24 points to a flawed Indy team that eventually got stomped in the AFCCG, 4 points less than their season average.

 

In 2015, the Broncos defense was holding teams to 10-20 points below their season averages, despite their offense being completely anemic. They didn't have over 200 yards passing or 100 yards rushing more than ONCE in the entire postseason.

 

If they kept Fox and Del Rio, they win 8ish games and then everyone is fired and Peyton retires very sad. 

 

My take is less that they'd have won the Superbowl had they kept Fox and more that they really shouldn't have won it with Kubiak. They were not a Superbowl standard winning team. Not even close IMO. The best team doesn't always win. I don't think the Broncos were a top 5 team the year they won the title. Sometimes you just get the breaks. Luck plays a major part. It is what it is - the history books will say the coaching change worked. I am sure that is the real truth of it. 

[FireChans]

Just now, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I am only replying to this so everyone can see this post.  Adam Gase and Nate Hackett would be as successful as McDermott.

 

 

 

See here's the rub. You think beating the Zach Wilson's and the Mac Jones' and the Ryan Fitzpatrick's to win the AFCE is some Herculean task with an elite, MVP caliber QB. It ain't.

 

Mike McCarthy was Green Bay's HC from 2009 to 2017 and had double digit wins every season except for the seasons Rodgers got hurt. 

 

For what it's worth, I think McDermott could've done that too. Because it's not that hard. 

[Royale with Cheese]

9 minutes ago, FireChans said:

I cannot disagree more. 

 

Their defense got a MASSIVE upgrade going from Del Rio to Phillips.  Their defensive DVOA was like the best by a SB winner in a decade (slightly better than the 13 Seahawks even) despite being middle of the road the year previous. They were first in yards and points per drive, after being 13th in points per drive the year previous.

 

The offense took a significant step back because Peyton lost his arm seemingly overnight but that wasn't schematic. 

 

In 2014, they allowed 24 points to a flawed Indy team that eventually got stomped in the AFCCG, 4 points less than their season average.

 

In 2015, the Broncos defense was holding teams to 10-20 points below their season averages, despite their offense being completely anemic. They didn't have over 200 yards passing or 100 yards rushing more than ONCE in the entire postseason.

 

If they kept Fox and Del Rio, they win 8ish games and then everyone is fired and Peyton retires very sad. 

 

So it does matter who is the coach then huh?

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

So it does matter who is the coach then huh?

The 2015 Broncos lost their elite QB midseason. 

 

When you have an elite, franchise QB, the floor is set regardless of the coach. At a minimum, the expectation is double digit wins and playoffs. It doesn't matter if you have Mike McCarthy or Sean McDermott or John Haurbaugh etc etc. 

 

If the Bills fired McDermott tomorrow and hired Joe Blow from University of Arkansas, my expectations would not change for the 2025 season. If Josh was lost for the season, my expectations WOULD change. 

14 minutes ago, Augie said:

I have not seen a specific proposal from you to make things better. WHO DO YOU WANT TO HIRE WHO IS MORE LIKELY TO WIN A SB?

I wanted the Bills to hire BB 2 years ago and Ben Johnson last year. 

 

Next year, there will be another couple good HC candidates. Maybe Shanny gets canned if the 9ers extremely disappoint or LaFleur if the Packers fall apart. Maybe Joe Brady is looking like he gets poached, I wouldn't mind giving him a shot if he impresses this year. Any of those guys may be my answer next year. McD will probably not get fired. Those guys will probably get hired elsewhere. And you will ask "who do you want that doesn't have a job already." Rinse repeat.

[Royale with Cheese]

3 minutes ago, FireChans said:

See here's the rub. You think beating the Zach Wilson's and the Mac Jones' and the Ryan Fitzpatrick's to win the AFCE is some Herculean task with an elite, MVP caliber QB. It ain't.

 

Mike McCarthy was Green Bay's HC from 2009 to 2017 and had double digit wins every season except for the seasons Rodgers got hurt. 

 

For what it's worth, I think McDermott could've done that too. Because it's not that hard. 

 

Ain't that hard?

Then why is there only a handful of coaches who won 5 or more consecutive division titles?

Here they are....Andy Reid, Bill Belicheck, Vince Lombardi and Sean McDermott.  Soooooooo easy.

[uticaclub]

17 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I am only replying to this so everyone can see this post.  Adam Gase and Nate Hackett would be as successful as McDermott.

 

 

 

Most likely.

[FireChans]

17 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

My take is less that they'd have won the Superbowl had they kept Fox and more that they really shouldn't have won it with Kubiak. They were not a Superbowl standard winning team. Not even close IMO. The best team doesn't always win. I don't think the Broncos were a top 5 team the year they won the title. Sometimes you just get the breaks. Luck plays a major part. It is what it is - the history books will say the coaching change worked. I am sure that is the real truth of it. 

I think that's the wrong take.

 

You don't have to be a top 5 team if you have an elite, all-time side of the ball. The 2000 Ravens weren't a top 5 team, but they were a top 1 defense. Ditto with the Broncos.

 

There's a fluke aspect of it sure. No one builds a team and says, "we don't care if the offense is mediocre if the defense is Hall of Fame level elite." It just kinda happens.

 

But make no mistake. It happened for the 2015 Broncos because they changed coaches. That unit was not breaking records with Del Rio. 

[Royale with Cheese]

5 minutes ago, FireChans said:

The 2015 Broncos lost their elite QB midseason. 

 

When you have an elite, franchise QB, the floor is set regardless of the coach. At a minimum, the expectation is double digit wins and playoffs. It doesn't matter if you have Mike McCarthy or Sean McDermott or John Haurbaugh etc etc. 

 

If the Bills fired McDermott tomorrow and hired Joe Blow from University of Arkansas, my expectations would not change for the 2025 season. If Josh was lost for the season, my expectations WOULD change. 

 

I know the 2015 Broncos lost their QB.  

So they won the Super Bowl without a franchise level QB.  You stated that if Fox or Del Rio would have gotten them to 8 wins.

Why? 

3 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

Most likely.

 

Then why aren't they HC's in the NFL?

 

[FireChans]

2 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Ain't that hard?

Then why is there only a handful of coaches who won 5 or more consecutive division titles?

Here they are....Andy Reid, Bill Belicheck, Vince Lombardi and Sean McDermott.  Soooooooo easy.

Yeah, sorry. There's at least 10 coaches in the NFL right now that I think are able to clown Mac Jones and old broken Cam Newton and Zach Wilson and Mike White and Skylar Thompson and Bailey Zappe with Josh Allen at QB for 5 straight seasons. It's really just not that impressive. 

 

My old take is that if you have to debate if a player is good all the time, they probably aren't. We used to debate Tyrod and Fitzy all day every day. The moral of the story was that they weren't good. We don't debate Josh Allen, because there is no reason to. We debate McD every day. I'm leaning toward he's in the Tyrod Taylor tier of HCs. 

[Royale with Cheese]

5 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Yeah, sorry. There's at least 10 coaches in the NFL right now that I think are able to clown Mac Jones and old broken Cam Newton and Zach Wilson and Mike White and Skylar Thompson and Bailey Zappe with Josh Allen at QB for 5 straight seasons. It's really just not that impressive. 

 

My old take is that if you have to debate if a player is good all the time, they probably aren't. We used to debate Tyrod and Fitzy all day every day. The moral of the story was that they weren't good. We don't debate Josh Allen, because there is no reason to. We debate McD every day. I'm leaning toward he's in the Tyrod Taylor tier of HCs. 

 

I don't know if you're aware of this or not,  but the Bills have played a 1st place schedule the last 5 seasons.

Division wins aren't the overall factor when it comes to division titles....it's overall wins.  

 

You keep bringing up Jones, Newton, Wilson etc....

We do face a lot of franchise QB's every season.  In fact, McDermott has faced Mahomes in the regular season more than he's faced all the above QB's.  

 

Winning 5 straight division titles isn't hard.  Sean Payton couldn't do it with Brees, Dungy couldn't do it with Manning, Bill Walsh didn't do it with Montana.....

[Augie]

27 minutes ago, FireChans said:

 Next year, there will be another couple good HC candidates. Maybe Shanny gets canned if the 9ers extremely disappoint or LaFleur if the Packers fall apart. Maybe Joe Brady is looking like he gets poached, I wouldn't mind giving him a shot if he impresses this year. Any of those guys may be my answer next year. McD will probably not get fired. Those guys will probably get hired elsewhere. And you will ask "who do you want that doesn't have a job already." Rinse repeat.

 

So, your plan is to find a coach who got fired for failing. Got it. Brady may or may not be over his skis as OC, so let’s make him the HC. 

 

You are making me feel better about my current position. 

[FireChans]

31 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Then why aren't they HC's in the NFL?

They lost their franchise QBs and didn't find another one and revealed they were nothing special.

 

31 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

I know the 2015 Broncos lost their QB.  

So they won the Super Bowl without a franchise level QB.  You stated that if Fox or Del Rio would have gotten them to 8 wins.

Why? 

Because the stars aligned for the Broncos defense to be an all-time elite unit. They had multiple future HoFers and a very talented group that was underperforming relatively and a coaching change was imo key to unlocking that.

9 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

So, your plan is to find a coach who got fired for failing. Got it. Brady may or may not be over his skis as OC, so let’s make him the HC. 

 

You are making me feel better about my current position. 

We hired McDermott who got fired for failing in Philly. He was also a first time HC, maybe he was over his skis. 

 

Your current position makes no sense.  If you can't hire a first time HC or a former HC who is now unemployed, there's nobody you can ever hire. Good plan. 

 

I want our next franchise QB to have never played in the NFL before, but also not be a rookie. Can you co-sign my application to be the next great NFL GM?

Edited July 2 by FireChans

[Royale with Cheese]

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

They lost their franchise QBs and didn't find another one and revealed 

 

Because the stars aligned for the Broncos defense to be an all-time elite unit. They had multiple future HoFers and a very talented group that was underperforming relatively and a coaching change was imo key to unlocking that.

 

They lost their franchise QB and now they are completely out of the NFL.  Makes sense.

 

So coaching matters then huh?  It's so funny how you're arguing coaching does and doesn't matter lol.  This is hilarious.  

9 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

So, your plan is to find a coach who got fired for failing. Got it. Brady may or may not be over his skis as OC, so let’s make him the HC. 

 

You are making me feel better about my current position. 

 

Its comical at this point.  

[FireChans]

14 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

They lost their franchise QB and now they are completely out of the NFL.  Makes sense.

 

So coaching matters then huh?  It's so funny how you're arguing coaching does and doesn't matter lol.  This is hilarious.  

What do you mean? These are my takes.

 

QBs matter way more than coaches. We have maybe the best QB in football, thus we are are a very good team.

 

If we fired McD and replaced him with an average coach, I think its very likely nothing gets worse from where we are now, a team that is very good, in large part because we have a great QB. 

 

Sometimes, coaching changes can elevate a very good team into a Super Bowl team. 

 

These are all very congruent takes if you stop to think for a second. 

28 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

I don't know if you're aware of this or not,  but the Bills have played a 1st place schedule the last 5 seasons.

Division wins aren't the overall factor when it comes to division titles....it's overall wins. 

I don't know if you are aware, but divisions titles are based on overall wins....of the teams in the division.

 

Ergo, you can win 8 games and win the division as long as the rest of the division wins no more than 7.

 

Seeing as the Jets have a .290 winning percentage since 2020, the Pats have a .390 winning percentage and the Dolphins have a .559, no I'm really not shocked that averaging double digit wins with an elite QB (like I said, bare minimum coaching expectation) when the second best team in your division can barely manage .500 over that span is enough to win the division.

 

FWIW, I wasn't super impressed when Brady and BB lorded over their division for 20 years or when Mahomes and co. do it now. In a league where there's barely 12-15 QBs worth a damn, and even 8-10 of those are a tier below those top 3 or 4 guys, when you have those top 3 or 4 guys, you are expected to win your division. Half the teams in your division will statistically not even have a franchise QB, and if you have an elite QB, the odds of another one being in your division is very small. 

Edited July 2 by FireChans

[Augie]

 

18 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

They lost their franchise QB and now they are completely out of the NFL.  Makes sense.

 

So coaching matters then huh?  It's so funny how you're arguing coaching does and doesn't matter lol.  This is hilarious.  

 

 Its comical at this point.  

 

This is a worthless exercise. I think I’ll go pick up dog poop in the back yard, instead. At least something good comes of that.  

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, Augie said:

 

 

This is a worthless exercise. I think I’ll go pick up dog poop in the back yard, instead. At least something good comes of that.  

I told you I wasn't going to make you see the light. You have accepted McDermott in your heart and there's nothing anyone can say to change it. 

[MJS]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

See here's the rub. You think beating the Zach Wilson's and the Mac Jones' and the Ryan Fitzpatrick's to win the AFCE is some Herculean task with an elite, MVP caliber QB. It ain't.

 

Mike McCarthy was Green Bay's HC from 2009 to 2017 and had double digit wins every season except for the seasons Rodgers got hurt. 

 

For what it's worth, I think McDermott could've done that too. Because it's not that hard. 

Your takes just get worse and worse. We get it. You are a McDermott hater. Now let it rest.

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, MJS said:

Your takes just get worse and worse. We get it. You are a McDermott hater. Now let it rest.

I think McDermott's actually a good coach. I don't think he's a disaster. I think he'd be a great hire for a team like Carolina if he did ever get fired.

 

I just don't think he's a difference-maker. 

 

And at this point, I am just saving receipts in case the unthinkable happens and we win a Super Bowl immediately with a new HC in 2026. I have spent enough time in this thread that I should be able to find it immediately. 

[MJS]

6 minutes ago, FireChans said:

I think McDermott's actually a good coach. I don't think he's a disaster. I think he'd be a great hire for a team like Carolina if he did ever get fired.

 

I just don't think he's a difference-maker. 

 

And at this point, I am just saving receipts in case the unthinkable happens and we win a Super Bowl immediately with a new HC in 2026. I have spent enough time in this thread that I should be able to find it immediately. 

And there will be plenty of receipts if the Bills win a superbowl with McDermott, too.