Are Fan Expectations Too High for Keon Coleman?

[BADOLBILZ]

51 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

He averaged 20 yards of catch last year and basically almost had the same amount of regular season stats as Xavier Worthy 

 

He wasn't trash even though he wasn't great

 

 

 

 

Coleman made huge plays with excellent yac so he had an awesome ypc........but wasn't anywhere near the consistent weapon they needed him to develop into by the end of the season.

 

In 2023 Kincaid caught a ton of passes but his yards per catch was just pathetic.   No juice.

 

They were rookies being force-fed targets when they clearly didn't really know what they were doing.

 

In his end of season criticism Beane strongly implied that Kincaid bought into the bogus hype that he had this excellent rookie season and thought he had it figured out and subsequently didn't work hard enough to get better in a league that now had tape on him.    He thought improvement would come naturally.  

 

 I think Beane cross referenced that when talking about Keon as well.   Like Keon should learn from Kincaid's struggles.  

 

[Buffalo716]

4 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

 

 

Coleman made huge plays with excellent yac so he had an awesome ypc........but wasn't anywhere near the consistent weapon they needed him to develop into by the end of the season.

 

In 2023 Kincaid caught a ton of passes but his yards per catch was just pathetic.   No juice.

 

They were rookies being force-fed targets when they clearly didn't really know what they were doing.

 

In his end of season criticism Beane strongly implied that Kincaid bought into the bogus hype that he had this excellent rookie season and thought he had it figured out and subsequently didn't work hard enough to get better in a league that now had tape on him.    He thought improvement would come naturally.  

 

 I think Beane cross referenced that when talking about Keon as well.   Like Keon should learn from Kincaid's struggles.  

 

As I said he certainly wasn't awesome 

 

But there's a difference between being outright trash and even being subpar after his injury

[Einstein]

6 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

After his injury he was not that productive 

 

Before his injury he wasn't lighting the world on fire but he was making some plays 

 

There's no world where 19 yards of catch is trash lol if he had nine yards a catch sure that's trash 

 

Brandon bean and McDermott are trying to light a fire under the ass of the first person they took in the last draft 

 

He averaged 19 yards a catch that's 100,000% something to build on

 

Sean McDermott never called elam trash even though he was much worse than Coleman ever was.. because Elam probably couldn't take it and he knows Coleman can there 

 

Coaches push players in different ways.. some players need to be coddled some need a fire lit under their ass... McDermott clearly thinks he knows what kind of guy Coleman is and that he needs the fire

You really seem to love YPC and think it is some barometer of goodness. You might fall over if you look at the greatness that is Alec Pierce and his YPC.

 

[Buffalo716]

8 minutes ago, Einstein said:

You really seem to love YPC and think it is some barometer of goodness. You might fall over if you look at the greatness that is Alec Pierce and his YPC.

 

You act like he had three catches for 90 yards .. that 30 yards per catch wouldn't mean nothing

 

He did have over 500 yd with a really good average

 

Plenty of wide receivers in the NFL did not get 500 yards last year 

 

You're overblowing how trash he was.. nobody is saying he was amazing.. but he did make some plays

 

He has more yards as a rookie than a guy like me a meocole hardman has had the last three seasons 

 

That's trash

 

And Pierce is a solid football player  With a defined skill set.. he is a solid deepthreat

 

I never once said yards per catch is the single biggest thing for determining a great wide receiver... But 30 catches is a big enough sample size to know that he is capable of being a big play guy and Coleman has to improve his consistency

Edited 21 hours ago by Buffalo716

[Einstein]

1 hour ago, Buffalo716 said:

 

 

He has more yards as a rookie than a guy like me a meocole hardman has had the last three seasons 

 

That's trash

 

Funny you bring up Mecole Hardman and call him trash (I agree btw), because Coleman is pretty similar to Hardman.

In fact, Mecole Hardman had a better rookie year than Coleman. He had the same yardage, more TD's, more YPC, and turned out to be a pretty crappy WR too.

PS, Coleman caught 51% of the passes that were thrown to him. Mecole Hardman (who is also not good and I dont want), catches it 70% of the time.

[Buffalo716]

11 minutes ago, Einstein said:

Funny you bring up Mecole Hardman and call him trash (I agree btw), because Coleman is pretty similar to Hardman.

In fact, Mecole Hardman had a better rookie year than Coleman. He had the same yardage, more TD's, more YPC, and turned out to be a pretty crappy WR too.

PS, Coleman caught 51% of the passes that were thrown to him. Mecole Hardman (who is also not good and I dont want), catches it 70% of the time.

 

 

Hardman has been trash for years..  Coleman last year was better than a 5-year veteran Hartman that's a fact .. we're not talking about the guy who 4 years ago went for 700 yards 

 

Hardman has 200 yd in the last 2 years. .  so no Coleman did outplay a guy like that

 

You literally act like somebody can't improve their catching percentage lol

 

And everybody in Kansas City thought hardman had tons of potential 5 years ago he just didn't do anything more 

 

Trash means bottom of the barrel... Coleman in fact had better stats than a lot of wide receivers last year..  it is complete hyperbole to call a rookie with 500 yd trash.. do you know how many rookies last year did not get 500 yards? 

 

 you obviously had insane expectations which were never going to be fulfilled because I think 500 yards while hurt is not the end of the world 

 

Eric moulds didn't have 300 yards his rookie or sophomore campaign.. and I was always willing to give him time

 

 

Edited 19 hours ago by Buffalo716

[Einstein]

18 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Hardman has been trash for years..  

You're talking about Colemans future unless he has a drastic change.

[NewEra]

3 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

"I know I lost our company that $2 million dollar deal, but im not bad at my job boss, I just need room to grow..."

He was absolutely trash lol. 

At least after October.

McDermott and Beane all but said he was trash in their press conferences too.

And he was good before the injury.  Made some big time plays.  Almost 20 yards per catch led the league as a slow rookie.  5th in yard per target and 7th in yards after contact among WRs.  Imagine that.  
 

not sure why the heavy emphasis on his play after getting injured while not mentioning that he was impressing prior to the injury.  
 

New season- no injury- put in work.  He’s going to be a solid weapon.  Is he going to be “the WR1 that we need” according to so many?  Probably not.  A good WR2-  I think so but we’ll see.  
 

 

[Buffalo716]

5 minutes ago, Einstein said:

You're talking about Colemans future unless he has a drastic change.

He doesn't need a drastic change he just needs to keep improving and work hard ... By all accounts he's not a lazy person... He also went to the top of the depth chart at both power five colleges he went to showing he buys in

 

Again if he had 150 yards I would be seriously concerned 

 

He had over 500 and got banged up during the season.. I think he squarely has the potential to be a 800 yd receiver yearly  and maybe even a little more

 

If you're not an all pro.. or pro bowler.. or a thousand yard receiver that doesn't mean your trash 

 

There is a middle ground that plenty of good football players fall into

Edited 19 hours ago by Buffalo716

[Lafromboise]

6 hours ago, Einstein said:

Yikes

 

A lot of that cause Allen was throwing bad balls to him. Hopefully they get chemistry this training camp.

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

You really seem to love YPC and think it is some barometer of goodness. You might fall over if you look at the greatness that is Alec Pierce and his YPC.

 

You seem to love hammering an impressive rookie that got hurt and struggled afterwards.  
 

He’s made plays everywhere he’s been.  
 

you wouldn’t like to have Alec Pierce on the team?

3 minutes ago, Einstein said:

You're talking about Colemans future unless he has a drastic change.

He’s back.  

[Einstein]

18 minutes ago, NewEra said:

You seem to love hammering an impressive rookie that got hurt and struggled afterwards.  

 

Not at all. I hope he proves me wrong. But what he has put on tape is not impressive and not indicative of someone I would expect to drastically change.

This is not a willpower issue to me. I don't think its an issue of him wanting it bad enough. It's a talent issue. 

He's slow, an average route runner, and the one thing he was supposed to be great at (ball control), he is one of the worst in the entire NFL according to the data in the chart above.
 

18 minutes ago, NewEra said:

He’s made plays everywhere he’s been. 

So has every bust in the history of the NFL.

[BADOLBILZ]

4 hours ago, Einstein said:

You really seem to love YPC and think it is some barometer of goodness. You might fall over if you look at the greatness that is Alec Pierce and his YPC.

 

 

 

Alec Pierce is really good.   Took him til year 3 but his QB situation has been among the league's worst and Pittman is a pretty good WR1 demanding more targets.  But Pierce is 6'3" runs 4.4 with very good hands.   Like an all-around more talented version of Gabe Davis.   Put him with Josh Allen and I could see him finishing around 20th in the NFL receiving yardage.   He's not some kind of scrub.

[NewEra]

3 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

Not at all. I hope he proves me wrong. But what he has put on tape is not impressive and not indicative of someone I would expect to drastically change.

This is not a willpower issue to me. I don't think its an issue of him wanting it bad enough. It's a talent issue. 

He's slow, an average route runner, and the one thing he was supposed to be great at (ball control), he is one of the worst in the entire NFL according to the data in the chart above.
 

So has every bust in the history of the NFL.

And even with bad tape, he was on pace for around 1000 yards as a 21 year old rookie.  His yards and big plays were mostly all him too.  The scramble drill big play vs Detroit was mostly Josh, but Coleman was still got open- even being so slow. 
 

Crazy how many people are writing him off solely because of his 40 time.  Route running can improve and I think we’ll see that he’s improved 

[Einstein]

9 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Alec Pierce is really good.   Took him til year 3 but his QB situation has been among the league's worst and Pittman is a pretty good WR1 demanding more targets.  But Pierce is 6'3" runs 4.4 with very good hands.   Like an all-around more talented version of Gabe Davis.   Put him with Josh Allen and I could see him finishing around 20th in the NFL receiving yardage.   He's not some kind of scrub.

 

He’s about as good as someone who averages 30 receptions per year can be I suppose.

[NewEra]

8 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

He’s about as good as someone who averages 30 receptions per year can be I suppose.

As an outside WR who makes his living deep has been the 3rd and 4th option with bum QBs.  He can’t throw it to himself.   

Ability isn’t always measured in stats and 40 times

[FireChans]

13 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

He doesn't need a drastic change he just needs to keep improving and work hard ... By all accounts he's not a lazy person... He also went to the top of the depth chart at both power five colleges he went to showing he buys in

 

Again if he had 150 yards I would be seriously concerned 

 

He had over 500 and got banged up during the season.. I think he squarely has the potential to be a 800 yd receiver yearly  and maybe even a little more

 

If you're not an all pro.. or pro bowler.. or a thousand yard receiver that doesn't mean your trash 

 

There is a middle ground that plenty of good football players fall into

Robert Foster averaged 20 YPC and 540 yards as a rookie too. 

[Einstein]

12 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Robert Foster averaged 20 YPC and 540 yards as a rookie too. 

 

Yep. There are tons of examples, but they will ignore them.

Why? Because Coleman is a Bills player. And as a Bills fan, we tend to dismiss the negatives and look for the positives.

 

If Coleman was on the Dolphins or Chiefs, he would be called a bum around here.

[NewEra]

28 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Robert Foster averaged 20 YPC and 540 yards as a rookie too. 

 

14 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Yep. There are tons of examples, but they will ignore them.

Why? Because Coleman is a Bills player. And as a Bills fan, we tend to dismiss the negatives and look for the positives.

 

If Coleman was on the Dolphins or Chiefs, he would be called a bum around here.

Davante Adams had 38 catches for 446 and 3 TDs.  
 

Antonio brown 16-167-1

 

Chris Godwin 33-535-1

Reggie Wayne -34 575- 3

 

steve smith- 29-414-0

 

Tyreek Hill 61-593-6

 

isaax Bruce, Terrell Owens and Emmanuel sanders all failed to reach 525 yards. 
 

There are a lot of examples for both sides of the argument.  Some of us ignore the fact that one (or several) persons success or failures doesn’t dictate another’s future.  

 

 

 

 

 

[FireChans]

11 minutes ago, NewEra said:

 

Davante Adams had 38 catches for 446 and 3 TDs.  
 

Antonio brown 16-167-1

 

Chris Godwin 33-535-1

Reggie Wayne -34 575- 3

 

steve smith- 29-414-0

 

Tyreek Hill 61-593-6

 

isaax Bruce, Terrell Owens and Emmanuel sanders all failed to reach 525 yards. 
 

There are a lot of examples for both sides of the argument.  Some of us ignore the fact that one (or several) persons success or failures doesn’t dictate another’s future.  

 

 

 

 

 

So, what you are saying is that the lofty goal of around 500 yards as a rookie is basically meaningless. We agree.