RB and WR markets are actually insane.

[BullBuchanan]

39 minutes ago, GASabresIUFan said:

Yes, I realize that and 3x $5 mill is a great deal different that 6-8x 5 mill.  Math does matter.

 

As to someone earning a huge raise, (which Cook has), what do you think Shakir is getting or Benford or Benard?  Shakir's raise for 2026 is nearly 3x his 2025 and his 2027 cap hit is over 5x his 2025.  Benford's 2026 is 3x his 2025 and his 2027 is nearly 8x his 2025.  Bernard?  2.5x in 2026 and 4.5X in 2027.

 

Obviously paying Cook a 3x raise is similar to the other similarly situated players on the Bills.  

 

We all understand that you don't want to pay Cook.  We get it.  However once you start saying Singletary is a reasonable substitute for Cook your credibility suffers.  

I didn't realize he was making over $5m This year. I knew his entire rookie deal was under $6M so not sure how he got such a big raise.

I could understand how you might think my credibility would suffer if I said singletary was a "reasonable substitute" for cook. I guess It's a good thing I never said that then.

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Singletary doesn't have the vision or change of direction of Cook. There is zero chance he makes that play. Zero.

I disagree. Watch the highlight clip I shared at 0:34. It's a similar play that Singletary scores on.

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

I didn't realize he was making over $5m This year. I knew his entire rookie deal was under $6M so not sure how he got such a big raise.

I could understand how you might think my credibility would suffer if I said singletary was a "reasonable substitute" for cook. I guess It's a good thing I never said that then.

I disagree. Watch the highlight clip I shared at 0:34. It's a similar play that Singletary scores on.

 

I watched it. No it isn't.

[Shaw66]

5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I watched it. No it isn't.

I'm glad you guys are having fun talking about who could make that play, but that really isn't the question.  The question is whether the totality of what Cook contributes could be obtained in free agency for less than Cook wants.  I think the answer to that is probably yes.  

[GunnerBill]

21 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I'm glad you guys are having fun talking about who could make that play, but that really isn't the question.  The question is whether the totality of what Cook contributes could be obtained in free agency for less than Cook wants.  I think the answer to that is probably yes.  

 

It probably is yes. I agree. But not by Devin freaking Singletary. He is a backup who spent 3 years here masquerading as a starter.

[Shaw66]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It probably is yes. I agree. But not by Devin freaking Singletary. He is a backup who spent 3 years here masquerading as a starter.

I guess I agree with you about Singletary, but the mere fact that people good disagree about Devin freaking Singletary shows why it's foolish to overpay for a running back.  Singletary may be close and misses the cut, but there are a lot of running backs who are better than Singletary.  To use a phrase that got me in trouble when talking about receivers, good (not Hall-of-Fame good but good) running backs are a dime a dozen, not $180 million (which is a dozen running backs at $15 million apiece.)

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I guess I agree with you about Singletary, but the mere fact that people good disagree about Devin freaking Singletary shows why it's foolish to overpay for a running back.  Singletary may be close and misses the cut, but there are a lot of running backs who are better than Singletary.  To use a phrase that got me in trouble when talking about receivers, good (not Hall-of-Fame good but good) running backs are a dime a dozen, not $180 million (which is a dozen running backs at $15 million apiece.)

 

Yea Cook is a good back. He isn't an elite back but he is a darn good one. I don't think any of the other backs Beane has drafted - and I include Davis in this - are starter level NFL talents. He has spent too many resources on change of pace type guys. 

[Mikie2times]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea Cook is a good back. He isn't an elite back but he is a darn good one. I don't think any of the other backs Beane has drafted - and I include Davis in this - are starter level NFL talents. He has spent too many resources on change of pace type guys. 

Not to mention we just punted on one of the better RB drafts in some time. If he leaves and we don't try and fill the hole internally (serious downgrade) it would likely be in FA. At which point it's back to my call outs. You're spending 5-8 million or so, you have just as much left over from the 15 million, at which point you sign a guy who is likely a back up. I just don't agree with it. As much as I don't think Cook is worth 15 million dollars I also don't see an easy path for this team to use that 15 million and replace the value Cook brings. It seems like you're in agreement of this largely so just adding to your call outs. 

[Shaw66]

5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea Cook is a good back. He isn't an elite back but he is a darn good one. I don't think any of the other backs Beane has drafted - and I include Davis in this - are starter level NFL talents. He has spent too many resources on change of pace type guys. 

That's an interesting point.  I think it's probably in part attributable to McDermott's philosophy that I keep talking about. They draft or sign a lot of all-purpose guys at every position.  Rousseau and Epenesa. Their wide receivers.  If there are ten criteria for a position - like say for a running back, it's speed, quickness, change of direction, pass pro, route running, hands, and name a few more, the Bills want guys who score very good in all categories instead of guys who are great in three categories and average in the others.  That's what they want.  

 

At some point, I think that philosophy works against them.  They find themselves having to sign a Miller or a Bosa, hoping they can get some splash plays that their all-purpose guys don't give them. That's not a philosophy that gets you a standout skill position player, because with only a few exceptions, the standout skill position plays stand out in college and get drafted before the Bills pick. 

[GunnerBill]

11 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

Not to mention we just punted on one of the better RB drafts in some time. If he leaves and we don't try and fill the hole internally (serious downgrade) it would likely be in FA. At which point it's back to my call outs. You're spending 5-8 million or so, you have just as much left over from the 15 million, at which point you sign a guy who is likely a back up. I just don't agree with it. As much as I don't think Cook is worth 15 million dollars I also don't see an easy path for this team to use that 15 million and replace the value Cook brings. It seems like you're in agreement of this largely so just adding to your call outs. 

 

I am. I am conflicted on Cook. I am generally in don't pay a back. But I think the things he brings - the vision and fast change of direction are perfect fits for this scheme and not super replaceable by any mid round back. If I thought we had the potential to be explosive in the pass game I wouldn't care at all and I'd say run him 'til he pukes this year then let him try FA. Bur when your passing game so much lacks explosion taking one of the best big play backs in football out of it feels somewhat risky. Hopefully the pass game is more explosive this year and we can happily move on from Cook and take the comp pick. But I can imagine a scenario where I am okay with paying him. 

3 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

That's an interesting point.  I think it's probably in part attributable to McDermott's philosophy that I keep talking about. They draft or sign a lot of all-purpose guys at every position.  Rousseau and Epenesa. Their wide receivers.  If there are ten criteria for a position - like say for a running back, it's speed, quickness, change of direction, pass pro, route running, hands, and name a few more, the Bills want guys who score very good in all categories instead of guys who are great in three categories and average in the others.  That's what they want.  

 

At some point, I think that philosophy works against them.  They find themselves having to sign a Miller or a Bosa, hoping they can get some splash plays that their all-purpose guys don't give them. That's not a philosophy that gets you a standout skill position player, because with only a few exceptions, the standout skill position plays stand out in college and get drafted before the Bills pick. 

 

Nah at running back their talent evaluation has just sucked aside from Cook. It is not philosophy it is bad talent evaluation. Singletary was never a third round talent. I said it at the time. Moss the same. Davis I had as a 5th they took late 4th I can kind of see the value at least but his ceiling is still a rotational #2.

[Doc Brown]

3 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

https://www.buffalobills.com/video/devin-singletary-s-best-plays-from-his-two-touchdown-game-wild-card-weekend

 

His two touchdown plays were great here. Maybe people think that James cook play was more special than I do. It wouldn't crack my top 50 and I'm not certain it would crack my top 100 runs of the year across the league. If I'm not a Bills fan, it's just a nice play assisted by the safety dropping his head.

See, i don't even advocate paying him 10 when you can get that talent on a rookie deal for $1-2M. A lot of folks around here believe that we would have wont he SB in 2021 had we beaten KC. if that had come to pass, Devin Singletary would have been our starting RB. having James Cook hasn't been the thing that put us over the edge. He's not that big of a difference by himself.

His vision and long speed is elite.  Nobody on here shed a tear when we lost Singletary to free agency.  Stupid to pay him though with  the massive risk factors of a 2nd running back horrible deals of the past but I’m not going to tear him down by comparing him to Singletary.  Lol. We get one more year out of him most likely so make it count.

 

[Shaw66]

24 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

 

Nah at running back their talent evaluation has just sucked aside from Cook. It is not philosophy it is bad talent evaluation. Singletary was never a third round talent. I said it at the time. Moss the same. Davis I had as a 5th they took late 4th I can kind of see the value at least but his ceiling is still a rotational #2.

I don't agree. They knew what they were getting with those guys. It's not about whether somebody was drafted 15 or 20 picks too high in the 3rd or 4th round. It's about weather they value the guys who go in the first round, and I think it's pretty clear that they don't.

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Shaw66 said:

I don't agree. They knew what they were getting with those guys. It's not about whether somebody was drafted 15 or 20 picks too high in the 3rd or 4th round. It's about weather they value the guys who go in the first round, and I think it's pretty clear that they don't.

 

If they knew what they were getting with Singletary and Moss and STILL spent day 2 picks on them that is a fireable offence.

[GASabresIUFan]

3 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

I didn't realize he was making over $5m This year. I knew his entire rookie deal was under $6M so not sure how he got such a big raise.

I could understand how you might think my credibility would suffer if I said singletary was a "reasonable substitute" for cook. I guess It's a good thing I never said that then.

I disagree. Watch the highlight clip I shared at 0:34. It's a similar play that Singletary scores on.

Maybe you should spend some time reading up on the contracts and how they work.  Rookie contracts have PPE clauses for non 1st rd players to earn additional money based on performance.  Cook was one a a handful of players to earn PPE level 3.  Shakir earned a PPE Level 1.  https://operations.nfl.com/inside-football-ops/nfl-operations/2025-nfl-free-agency/contract-language/

 

I hope this helps.  

 

 

 

[LEBills]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea Cook is a good back. He isn't an elite back but he is a darn good one. I don't think any of the other backs Beane has drafted - and I include Davis in this - are starter level NFL talents. He has spent too many resources on change of pace type guys. 

This is even more reason to pay Cook imo. If we let Cook walk, Beane will likely look to backfill the position early in the draft in 2026 instead of using that future pick on more costly positions. And whoever selected is no guarantee to be better than the proven commodity in Cook.

 

Pay Cook, use the draft picks on expensive second contract positions.

[BullBuchanan]

5 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

I'm glad you guys are having fun talking about who could make that play, but that really isn't the question.  The question is whether the totality of what Cook contributes could be obtained in free agency for less than Cook wants.  I think the answer to that is probably yes.  

As do I, and that's a point I was trying to make. You don't need a player to make a given play most of the time, if he can be as effective in totality.

 

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

If they knew what they were getting with Singletary and Moss and STILL spent day 2 picks on them that is a fireable offence.

How? What exactly are you expecting of 3rd round players? Both of those guys have started in this league and have had monster games from time to time. Not sure what more you're looking for there.

[GASabresIUFan]

People, the last time the Bills drafted and developed a RB with Cook's production level was 20 years ago.  If it takes 20 years to find a good starting running back, doesn't it seem wise to keep the one you got while your in the SB window of Josh's career? 

 

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

15 minutes ago, GASabresIUFan said:

People, the last time the Bills drafted and developed a RB with Cook's production level was 20 years ago.  If it takes 20 years to find a good starting running back, doesn't it seem wise to keep the one you got while your in the SB window of Josh's career? 

 

 

 

 

First of all,  let's not blow Cook's production level out of context.   A couple 1,000 yard seasons and only 533 carries in his career.   Not some monster production.  And for context, from 2009-2014 Jackson or Spiller produced 900-1000+ yards each year.   Then the Bills proceeded to lead the NFL in rushing by a large margin in both 2015 and 2016.    You are trying to frame it like the running game had been some issue the prior 20 years so they should cling to this one beacon of hope named James Cook. 

 

Second........Why does the quality of the individual RB matter?   Philly with Barkley was the first big name RB team to win a SB since the Seahawks lone SB win with Marshawn Lynch.  Before that you have to back to the early 2000's to find a comparable situation with a big name RB.    And, fwiw,  the 2024 Eagles had the highest paid offense in the NFL with 2 stud WR, the league's best OL and a recent MVP candidate at QB.   He went from 3.9 ypc with the Giants in 2023 to 5.7 with the loaded Eagles team.   The quality of the team around him totally changed his ability to produce.   Cook also benefits greatly from his situation with the Bills.