PFF's top 32 TE's (Dalton Kincaid at 10!!!!!)

[Doc Brown]

On 6/2/2025 at 5:29 PM, Buffalo716 said:

I'm on PFF right now and it says Dawson Knox does not qualify 

 

Do you have a link to where it says he does have a qualifying grade?

No but I did spend last night at a Holiday Express.  

 

Here's where I got just in PFF's preview article of projected starters for 2025 and their grades last year.  I just assumed since he received a grade he qualified.  I'm not going to pay for PFF because the price they charge is ridiculous.

 

OFFENSE                                       DEFENSE

QB Josh Allen (91.9)                DI  Ed Oliver (72.6)

RB James Cook (86.2)            DI DaQuan Jones (65.3)

RB Ty Johnson (73.3)             Edge Greg Rousseau (82.2)

WR Khalil Shakir (78.9)           Edge Joey Bosa (61.1)

WR Keon Coleman (68.3)       Edge Michael Hoecht (64.7)

WR Joshua Palmer (67.0)       LB Matt Milano (53.3)

TE Dawson Knox (57.1)           LB Terrel Bernard (48.2)

LT Dion Dawkins (72.4)          CB Christian Benford (79.3)

LG David Edwards (66.1)        CB Maxwell Hairston (81.8***)

C Connor McGovern (69.5)    CB Taron Johnson (58.8)

RG O'Cyrus Torrence (55.5)   S Taylor Rapp (57.7)

RT Spencer Brown (77.9)        S Damar Hamlin (52.7)

 

*2024 college grade
**2023 NFL grade
***2023 college grade

[Thurman#1]

On 6/3/2025 at 2:19 PM, TheWeatherMan said:

Please do explain…I have a different recollection. 

 

 

Take a look at the catchable ball percentage for Kincaid this year. Way way down from last year. As has been reported on here a lot.

 

Here's more from the Rochester D&C on this:

 

https://www.democratandchronicle.com/story/sports/football/nfl/bills/2025/02/13/dalton-kincaid-josh-allen-trouble-getting-on-same-page-2024/78462826007/

 

22 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

You have to look at the grade as a tool and then apply proper context to it.  It doesn't account for scheme, whether a player was put on a good situation or not, a guy playing hurt, adverse weather conditions, or how the quality of players around them impacted their "score."  You can't take it as gospel but it's a useful tool than just reading raw stats.

 

 

Yup, exactly, Doc.

 

There's no such thing as a perfect stat or rating. They all need context. This one is indeed a useful tool, but should not be treated as the final and only necessary word.

 

Edited Wednesday at 08:14 AM by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

20 hours ago, uticaclub said:

Andrews

Bowers

Engram

Ferguson

Friermuth

Goedert

Henry

Hockenson

Kelce

Kittle

Kraft

LaPorta

Likely

McBride

Njoku

 

 

I just started naming tight ends and putting them in alphabetical order. Who would you start Kincaid over in week 1 from that list?

 

 

The Kincaid we saw when healthy in 2023? With the knowledge he's likely to have now? If healthy, I'd start him over more than half of them in the blink of an eye.

[Thurman#1]

19 hours ago, dorquemada said:

 

PFF superfan has entered the chat

 

 

PFF desperate hater already here, apparently. Nice to see you again.

 

But this is a dumb post. If I were a superfan, I'd say they were right and you don't need to look any further. You do. But as I said, it's just as dumb to be an unseeing hater and let the mere sight of the letters PFF trigger in your mind all the pitchfork stuff and superfan stuff.

 

Saying they're worth consideration doesn't make me a superfan. It makes me a reasonable person. Again, the NFL teams I believe have a 100% rate of purchasing their services. That would not happen if they didn't know how to watch and understand tape and crunch numbers.

[Thurman#1]

17 hours ago, uticaclub said:

It’s $25/month for data they may or may not use. Do you pay for a service you use maybe twice a year? Same thing.

 

 

Um, dude, no.

 

First, no, I don't pay $25 a month for a service I use maybe twice a year.

 

Second, the NFL teams aren't buying the $25 a month services. They are all signed up for extremely sophisticated deep dives on stats that come from PFF's tape study. Much much more than $25 per year.

 

Again, that doesn't mean their opinion is always right. But it does mean that the NFL believes at a 100% rate that PFF knows how to watch tape, analyze it and break it down.

 

And yet again, that doesn't mean they know exactly how good a guy like Kincaid is and should be the only thing you listen to. But are they worth consideration? Yeah.

[Chandler#81]

With rare exceptions, there’s really never been a TE era in the NFL. I’m not sure I can think of maybe 10 who were real game changers.

 

S’up wit dat?

[dorquemada]

3 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

PFF desperate hater already here, apparently. Nice to see you again.

 

But this is a dumb post. If I were a superfan, I'd say they were right and you don't need to look any further. You do. But as I said, it's just as dumb to be an unseeing hater and let the mere sight of the letters PFF trigger in your mind all the pitchfork stuff and superfan stuff.

 

Saying they're worth consideration doesn't make me a superfan. It makes me a reasonable person. Again, the NFL teams I believe have a 100% rate of purchasing their services. That would not happen if they didn't know how to watch and understand tape and crunch numbers.

 

I don't know, man. Two posts in a row with you doing the "LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE" meme but about pff.   

[uticaclub]

3 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

The Kincaid we saw when healthy in 2023? With the knowledge he's likely to have now? If healthy, I'd start him over more than half of them in the blink of an eye.

Which half are you referring to? Was Kincaid that dynamic, or was he simply our de facto #2 receiving option because the rest of the wide receivers were ineffective in 2023

Edited Wednesday at 12:16 PM by uticaclub

[uticaclub]

3 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Um, dude, no.

 

First, no, I don't pay $25 a month for a service I use maybe twice a year.

 

Second, the NFL teams aren't buying the $25 a month services. They are all signed up for extremely sophisticated deep dives on stats that come from PFF's tape study. Much much more than $25 per year.

 

Again, that doesn't mean their opinion is always right. But it does mean that the NFL believes at a 100% rate that PFF knows how to watch tape, analyze it and break it down.

 

And yet again, that doesn't mean they know exactly how good a guy like Kincaid is and should be the only thing you listen to. But are they worth consideration? Yeah.

It doesn't mean they necessarily believe in it, it's a data source they have access to. PFF like any other source that provides data for any industry isn't perfect and will produce information that doesn't pass the eyeball test. Is Kincaid an example of that? Idk that's why we are having this discussion.

[Pete]

Imo injury talk was teammates sticking up for Dalton.  Josh has a 63.3% lifetime  completion rate.  Was he great at throwing at every WR, TE, and RB- except Dalton?  IMO Dalton did not get to his landmarks in time, failed to get deep enough in zone coverage, and often did not put himself in better position for the catch.

[billsfan89]

53 minutes ago, Pete said:

Imo injury talk was teammates sticking up for Dalton.  Josh has a 63.3% lifetime  completion rate.  Was he great at throwing at every WR, TE, and RB- except Dalton?  IMO Dalton did not get to his landmarks in time, failed to get deep enough in zone coverage, and often did not put himself in better position for the catch.

 

Possible but there were some throws were Dalton was open and Josh either missed him or made it a very difficult catch that it doesn't seem to the casual eye was a misread or bad route. I don't think that accounts for all of the lack of production he had in the 13 games he played either. I think the coaching staff is going to have to work with him to get him involved in the offense and fix his issues. I think health was the primary factor to his dip in production, a few bad throws being better could have bumped up his totals 5-7 catches 50-70 yards which wouldn't have massively moved the needle for him. 

[Billl]

3 hours ago, Pete said:

Imo injury talk was teammates sticking up for Dalton.  Josh has a 63.3% lifetime  completion rate.  Was he great at throwing at every WR, TE, and RB- except Dalton?  IMO Dalton did not get to his landmarks in time, failed to get deep enough in zone coverage, and often did not put himself in better position for the catch.

Totally agree regarding the injury part.

 

Kincaid's production issues?  He was playing with an injured knee.  Coleman's production issues?  He was playing with an injured wrist.   Samuel's production issues?  He was playing with an injured foot.  Cooper's production issues?  He was playing with an injured wrist. 

 

If you look closely, you can start to identify a bit of a pattern. 

[Pete]

5 hours ago, uticaclub said:

Which half are you referring to? Was Kincaid that dynamic, or was he simply our de facto #2 receiving option because the rest of the wide receivers were ineffective in 2023

Daltons rookie year catches were mostly short routes.  Watching Dalton rookie year, I’d yell at the TV “STOP WITH THE SHORT ROUTES AND BUBBLE SCREENS - SEND DALTON DEEPER!”.

 

[Sierra Foothills]

11 hours ago, Pete said:

Daltons rookie year catches were mostly short routes.  Watching Dalton rookie year, I’d yell at the TV “STOP WITH THE SHORT ROUTES AND BUBBLE SCREENS - SEND DALTON DEEPER!”.

 

Did you notice any discernible variance in his route tree in the aftermath of your yelling?