2025 OTAs are underway

[Beck Water]

14 hours ago, Doc said:

If Tre doesn't have it, they could cut him and put him on the PS as a mentor, a la Micah Hyde last year.  He'd still get $2.2M plus PS salary and a game check from call-ups.

 

I think this may happen

[Beck Water]

On 6/14/2025 at 6:00 PM, GunnerBill said:

And yet there were games almost a full 12 months later where Dorian Williams still resembled a spinning top, despite playing a ton of football in Milano's absence in the meantime. The very same Chiefs abused him in week 11 and the Ravens embarrassed him twice last season. His best game as a Bill, by far, was Jacksonville in week 3 and far from that being a catalyst for improvement it now looks like a swallow that didn't sniff a summer. I think we are close to the point where we have to admit his play recognition skills are not where they need to be and his understanding of the defense is a problem (and I liked Dorian coming out). 

 

I'm not there yet. 

Against the Ravens during the regular season, Williams was playing next to Baylon Spector and the D as a whole had a terrible, horrible, no good very bad day. 

In the playoffs he was playing as part of a 4-3 base he'd played in a bit, but we don't play it that much.  But the reason that coaches like Andy Reid and John Harbaugh have been around and successful as much as they have been, is that they are extremely thorough in drilling into film to understand exactly what the defensive assignments will be given their offensive set and their known playcall tendencies from that set.  Then they figure out how to exploit those assignments to put defenders in unfavorable roles.

 

I think it's fair to say that we've met Terrel Bernard and we've met Matt Milano and Dorian Williams is not Bernard or Milano.  But I think it's a long step from there to say that his understanding of the defense is a problem. 

 

McDermott is on record expressing he feels players often struggle their second season for various reasons and then really take a step in their third.  So we'll see.

[Beck Water]

36 minutes ago, Brand J said:

Bernard’s 2023 was a literal historic performance playmaking wise, so it’s hard to expect that kind of output year after year. I think more than anything he needs others around him to step their game up.

 

Any MLB looks better if the players around him are assignment-sound

[Ralonzo]

23 hours ago, Beck Water said:

the number of defenders recognized with pro-bowl or all-pro honors can be counted on one hand.  Tre' White and Edmunds (2x).  Poyer (2x).  Milano.  I think that's it.

 

 

That said, the ability to execute McD scheme being favored (heavily?) over athletic talent leads to upper echelon regular season defenses that break down as individual positions fail for being physically overmatched by playoff caliber opposition. 

 

Counter to that of course is Tremaine Edmunds. It's a fine line to walk but after SO many years of the defense getting walked every playoff most folks are receptive to taking a flyer on lower-floor higher-ceiling athletes being put in a position to let their talent make those plays they havent been making. Which sounds vaguely Eaglish.

[GunnerBill]

27 minutes ago, Brand J said:

Bernard’s 2023 was a literal historic performance playmaking wise, so it’s hard to expect that kind of output year after year. I think more than anything he needs others around him to step their game up.

 

I'm not saying he needs to match 2023 to be clear. But there is a need for some of the 2023 splash plays to make that contract worth it over the long run. 

[Brand J]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I'm not saying he needs to match 2023 to be clear. But there is a need for some of the 2023 splash plays to make that contract worth it over the long run. 

Well, he only averages $12M/yr. I’m not sure where that ranks among MLBs, but I can’t image it’s even top 10. I think that amount is fair based on his 2024 performance and may be even a touch cheaper. If his 2023 output was his standard, he should at the very least be paid like a top 3 MLB. 

[GunnerBill]

18 minutes ago, Brand J said:

Well, he only averages $12M/yr. I’m not sure where that ranks among MLBs, but I can’t image it’s even top 10. I think that amount is fair based on his 2024 performance and may be even a touch cheaper. If his 2023 output was his standard, he should at the very least be paid like a top 3 MLB. 

 

He is 9th in AAV if you only include MLBs. 

 

But it isn't even that. It isn't where he ranks against his peers. It is about where else the Bills could have allocated that money.

[Brand J]

42 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

He is 9th in AAV if you only include MLBs. 

 

But it isn't even that. It isn't where he ranks against his peers. It is about where else the Bills could have allocated that money.

Yeah, I think $12M/yr is more than fair if Bernard averages 2024 numbers over the course of his career. Sure the Bills could have spent the money elsewhere, like they could’ve done with any other position, but then the leader of the defense would be a hole that would need to be filled and maybe Bernard’s replacement fairs far worse. It’s a fair contract on both ends with the potential for Bernard to outperform it.

[GunnerBill]

12 minutes ago, Brand J said:

Yeah, I think $12M/yr is more than fair if Bernard averages 2024 numbers over the course of his career. Sure the Bills could have spent the money elsewhere, like they could’ve done with any other position, but then the leader of the defense would be a hole that would need to be filled and maybe Bernard’s replacement fairs far worse. It’s a fair contract on both ends with the potential for Bernard to outperform it.

 

I'm not as persuaded. He needs to be better than 2024 for me. Not to prove he can be an NFL starter on a decent defense. But to justify being paid in a non-premium position.

[3rdand12]

19 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Actually, it was Gunner.

Thank you for the honest correction 😇

[Cash]

22 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:

If Tre White makes the 53 to be a one year player/coach/mentor and the Bills lose a promising Dorian Strong, for example, as a result, by failing to sneak him onto the PS, then that's poor, short-sighted roster mismanagement. Tre, as others have noted, should be a PS handshake (IF he shows consistent limitations in camp). They could guarantee him a couple call-ups and some likely-to-hit escalators perhaps? However, might be a bunch of dead cap involved in cutting him? (2.2M guaranteed, so...)

 

Best case is clearly Tre enjoying a comeback season that sees him make the roster and provide valuable depth and subpackage snaps throughout the season while Hairston, Hancock, and Strong also flash when tested. (Hancock might not be relevant to this specific convo.)

 

1. I agree Hancock isn’t relevant - I think he’s competing against  Cam Lewis, J. Ingram, and backup safeties. 
 

2. I think Tre is really competing against Dane Jackson for a roster spot. If he’s good enough to earn that spot, he’ll be competing against Hairston to start. 
 

3. I’ll go on record and say two things. First, we will not cut Dorian Strong this year. (Maybe he goes on IR, so I won’t proclaim that he makes the team.) Second, Tre White makes the team if healthy - meaning he isn’t cut or traded prior to week 1. If I’m wrong on either, you have my permission to dunk on me. I will accept it with shame. 

[Richard Noggin]

1 hour ago, Cash said:

1. I agree Hancock isn’t relevant - I think he’s competing against  Cam Lewis, J. Ingram, and backup safeties. 
 

2. I think Tre is really competing against Dane Jackson for a roster spot. If he’s good enough to earn that spot, he’ll be competing against Hairston to start. 
 

3. I’ll go on record and say two things. First, we will not cut Dorian Strong this year. (Maybe he goes on IR, so I won’t proclaim that he makes the team.) Second, Tre White makes the team if healthy - meaning he isn’t cut or traded prior to week 1. If I’m wrong on either, you have my permission to dunk on me. I will accept it with shame. 

 

I could make it look pretty sweet on an 8' rim. (maybe)

[TBBills Fan]

10 hours ago, Cash said:

1. I agree Hancock isn’t relevant - I think he’s competing against  Cam Lewis, J. Ingram, and backup safeties. 
 

2. I think Tre is really competing against Dane Jackson for a roster spot. If he’s good enough to earn that spot, he’ll be competing against Hairston to start. 
 

3. I’ll go on record and say two things. First, we will not cut Dorian Strong this year. (Maybe he goes on IR, so I won’t proclaim that he makes the team.) Second, Tre White makes the team if healthy - meaning he isn’t cut or traded prior to week 1. If I’m wrong on either, you have my permission to dunk on me. I will accept it with shame. 

I'm not good at basketball. Can I throw a pie in your face instead?