The One, Big, Beautiful tax bill - that kills the poor and pays the rich

[AlBUNDY4TDS]

1 minute ago, Doc Brown said:

I've seen many people fall into poverty after losing their job because of downsizing, have their husband or wife die on them, or a major illness or accident makes it impossible for them to work.  These people do literally need SNAP to survive.  If it wasn't for these benefits you'd have to have swat teams at every grocery store.  Not many kids at 10 years old think when I grow up I want to become dependent on leaching off the government.  That's not to say that their aren't people out there that are content and lazy living off the government teet, but I think that's overly stated by Republicans to win elections. 

 

You could look at it another way.  There's an income threshold for those able to receive snap benefits or other types of welfare.  This threshold means that people who work 40 hours a week at minimum federal wage will still be able to collect SNAP benefits.  Places like McDonalds, Wal Mart, and Costco's continue to benefit off this because most of their employees make minimum wage or a little bit above.  Looking at it from that angle taxpayers we are subsidizing these big companies because they don't pay enough for the average worker not to be eligible for SNAP benefits.

 

 

I understand the temporary need for these programs. But when generations of families are on government assistance, the system is beyond broken. The system contributes and maintains poverty imo. It gives you just enough to not want more for yourself.

[Doc Brown]

2 hours ago, AlBUNDY4TDS said:

I understand the temporary need for these programs. But when generations of families are on government assistance, the system is beyond broken. The system contributes and maintains poverty imo. It gives you just enough to not want more for yourself.

I get where you're coming from now as generational welfare requires a much more nuanced discussion.  Love the username by the way.

[Taro T]

12 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

I've seen many people fall into poverty after losing their job because of downsizing, have their husband or wife die on them, or a major illness or accident makes it impossible for them to work.  These people do literally need SNAP to survive.  If it wasn't for these benefits you'd have to have swat teams at every grocery store.  Not many kids at 10 years old think when I grow up I want to become dependent on leaching off the government.  That's not to say that their aren't people out there that are content and lazy living off the government teet, but I think that's overly stated by Republicans to win elections. 

 

You could look at it another way.  There's an income threshold for those able to receive snap benefits or other types of welfare.  This threshold means that people who work 40 hours a week at minimum federal wage will still be able to collect SNAP benefits.  Places like McDonalds, Wal Mart, and Costco's continue to benefit off this because most of their employees make minimum wage or a little bit above.  Looking at it from that angle taxpayers we are subsidizing these big companies because they don't pay enough for the average worker not to be eligible for SNAP benefits.

 

 

 

Yet another way still to look at it is "minimum wage" is SUPPOSED to be for those entering the labor market or those simply supplementing their other income sources.  Those jobs are not meant to be careers nor for raising families.  The taxpayer isn't subsidizing the HS student working to have money to afford a car and to find out just why he/she wants to go on to college nor the SS recipient that wants to be able to work part time for whatever reason(s) that usually aren't related to being able to avoid having to have dog food on the table.

 

Yes, there are those that aren't in those starting out / supplementing categories that need miminum wage jobs.  And many of them fall into the categories of individuals you mention above.  And absolutely those are the people that SNAP is tailor made to help.

 

The question(s) to be answered is how do you get those that are mulitgenerationally in the welfare system out of it.  And personally believe that starts by fixing the educational system particularly in inner cities and impoverished rural areas and also by incentivizing rather than penalizing two parent families.  Realizing there is no overnight fix to issues that have engulfed at least 60 years worth of people growing up in that same situation.

[SectionC3]

13 hours ago, AlBUNDY4TDS said:

I understand the temporary need for these programs. But when generations of families are on government assistance, the system is beyond broken. The system contributes and maintains poverty imo. It gives you just enough to not want more for yourself.

Define government assistance.  It's probably broader than you think.  

 

For example, I work in the legal field.  I see and know of tons of MAGA-types getting free lawyers--through Legal Aid, Assigned Counsel, conflict defender, federal public defender, VLP, AFCs.  You name it, they take it.  That's all taxpayer funded, with the exception of VLP, which is volunteer.  But I'm the "evil Democrat" who admittedly has used state education and government-sponsored student loans (of which I paid back every penny), and has otherwise never taken a dime of public assistance.  According to these penniless fools, I'm also the leech.  It's quite something, actually.  

13 hours ago, AlBUNDY4TDS said:

I understand the temporary need for these programs. But when generations of families are on government assistance, the system is beyond broken. The system contributes and maintains poverty imo. It gives you just enough to not want more for yourself.

I can't say that I totally disagree with that.  There's a lot of laziness, apathy, unwillingness to work, and frankly absence of shame.  But here's the thing: I see that I a lot of people who are now MAGA.  Ever watch thousand pound sisters?  The next day those slobs work will be the first.  Dollars to donuts (if the sisters don't get them first), the majority of those jelly rollers are MAGA voters.  They think it's the fault of the immigrants and the Democrats that they're losers.  

 

Hill and trailer country in Erie County is no different.  Don't like your lot in life?  Stop getting banged up at the fire hall three nights a week and get another job.  But they don't, and they won't, and they'll continue to blame everyone else for their obesity and health problems while on the inevitable path to Medicaid and Medicare.  

Edited yesterday at 08:02 PM by SectionC3

[Doc Brown]

1 hour ago, Taro T said:

 

Yet another way still to look at it is "minimum wage" is SUPPOSED to be for those entering the labor market or those simply supplementing their other income sources.  Those jobs are not meant to be careers nor for raising families.  The taxpayer isn't subsidizing the HS student working to have money to afford a car and to find out just why he/she wants to go on to college nor the SS recipient that wants to be able to work part time for whatever reason(s) that usually aren't related to being able to avoid having to have dog food on the table.

 

Yes, there are those that aren't in those starting out / supplementing categories that need miminum wage jobs.  And many of them fall into the categories of individuals you mention above.  And absolutely those are the people that SNAP is tailor made to help.

 

The question(s) to be answered is how do you get those that are mulitgenerationally in the welfare system out of it.  And personally believe that starts by fixing the educational system particularly in inner cities and impoverished rural areas and also by incentivizing rather than penalizing two parent families.  Realizing there is no overnight fix to issues that have engulfed at least 60 years worth of people growing up in that same situation.

I completely agree.  That's why I said generational welfare dependency is a much more nuanced conversation that you articulated in the last paragraph rather than just the blanket statement of "if you're on SNAP then you're doing something wrong" just seemed cold and incorrect.  The only good argument I've heard for raising the federal minimum wage is it prevents larger corporations from reaping the benefits of taxpayers subsidizing them in states where the federal minimum wage is also the state's minimum wage.  

Edited yesterday at 09:23 PM by Doc Brown

[Homelander]

They're losing control of the narrative.

 

 

[Homelander]