billsfan1959 Posted November 18, 2021 Author Share Posted November 18, 2021 1 minute ago, Tiberius said: Would you trust racists to be fair? You seem to have a preoccupation with racism in this thread. Are you saying that Julius Jones was charged, convicted, and sentenced to death because the investigators, prosecutors, jurors, and judge were racist? Or that racism is at the heart of his case? Or that the Governor was racist for commuting the sentence? Whatever it is, just state it and offer your reasons for believing so, you know, like a real discussion, rather than going off on silly tangents... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobills404 Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 The left has more empathy for black criminals than their white victims. What else is new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 3 hours ago, billsfan1959 said: You seem to have a preoccupation with racism in this thread. Are you saying that Julius Jones was charged, convicted, and sentenced to death because the investigators, prosecutors, jurors, and judge were racist? Or that racism is at the heart of his case? Or that the Governor was racist for commuting the sentence? Whatever it is, just state it and offer your reasons for believing so, you know, like a real discussion, rather than going off on silly tangents... This is Tibs your talking about sir he usually doesn't have many if any credible reply's other than his opinion with pretty much in most cases not a lot to back it up but what he believes and if you do provide fact in a reply you usually have dead silence from him . 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 (edited) 5 hours ago, Tiberius said: Give him life in prison instead. He might deserve the death penalty but allowing the death penalty to happen means mistakes in other cases could lead to a wrongful death and the hands of the state. Death penalty is just wrong. The death penalty is not wrong if there is undeniable, indisputable proof that the person is guilty if there isn't that proof then it should be off the table in such cases like Bundy, Manson, JW Gassy, Dahmer sorry but they weren't worth keeping alive and paying for it . P.S. the man that says the death penalty is wrong yet heads up a post about the Texas law stopping abortion and when his liberal buddy Billstime writes a reply on that post that said : "As Texas turns blue - this won't last . Besides - it won't stop one abortion -this is nothing more than are meat for pigs" Tibs gives a thumbs up --- Double standard - Talking out of both sides of his mouth ? Not okay to put to death someone that has been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt ("Death Penalty is just wrong") & been proved to have killed one or multiple people but quite possibly agrees it's wrong to stop some one from abortion & may think it's okay to take or make a decision to take a completely innocent life ???????????? 🤔😞😪 Edited November 19, 2021 by T master 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted November 19, 2021 Author Share Posted November 19, 2021 26 minutes ago, T master said: Not okay to put to death someone that has been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt ("Death Penalty is just wrong") & been proved to have killed one or multiple people but quite possibly agrees it's wrong to stop some one from abortion & may think it's okay to take or make a decision to take a completely innocent life ???????????? It is just one example of many regarding the lack of intellectual consistency and honesty of the left... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 17 hours ago, billsfan1959 said: You seem to have a preoccupation with racism in this thread. Are you saying that Julius Jones was charged, convicted, and sentenced to death because the investigators, prosecutors, jurors, and judge were racist? Or that racism is at the heart of his case? Or that the Governor was racist for commuting the sentence? Whatever it is, just state it and offer your reasons for believing so, you know, like a real discussion, rather than going off on silly tangents... I brought it up to prove a point. How can the death penalty be fair in a state with such a racist history? That's my only point. 14 hours ago, T master said: The death penalty is not wrong if there is undeniable, indisputable proof that the person is guilty if there isn't that proof then it should be off the table in such cases like Bundy, Manson, JW Gassy, Dahmer sorry but they weren't worth keeping alive and paying for it . P.S. the man that says the death penalty is wrong yet heads up a post about the Texas law stopping abortion and when his liberal buddy Billstime writes a reply on that post that said : "As Texas turns blue - this won't last . Besides - it won't stop one abortion -this is nothing more than are meat for pigs" Tibs gives a thumbs up --- Double standard - Talking out of both sides of his mouth ? Not okay to put to death someone that has been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt ("Death Penalty is just wrong") & been proved to have killed one or multiple people but quite possibly agrees it's wrong to stop some one from abortion & may think it's okay to take or make a decision to take a completely innocent life ???????????? 🤔😞😪 Wow, and who decides that? A jury, right? And a jury has never been wrong before, huh? Wait, you are pro-life and for the death penalty? 😂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeviF Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 This happening at the same time as the Rittenhouse trial is a gift from g-d. He who has ears to hear, let him hear. Julius Jones, convicted for the murder of Paul Howell, father of two, to further the commission of another felony. After eyewitness testimony, murder weapon with his DNA on it, and other evidence is presented in a fair trial, found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt of said murder by a jury of his peers. Sentenced to death by same. Appeals exhausted, date of death imminent. Sentence commuted by GOP governor in a state where polling suggests 2/3rds of the population supports the death penalty thanks to a celebrity thot and double-digit IQ basketball players whining on twitter. Kyle Rittenhouse, white prole, 17 years of age, travels to his father's town to, in some fashion, act as a counter to rioters. Caught on HD video from multiple angles, is attacked by several individuals whilst armed with a rifle. Proceeds to shoot three of said individuals, two of which expire. Each were felons, each were armed, one leveled a firearm (possessed illegally) at Rittenhouse. Is subjected to 24/7 coverage during a show trial in which the near-unlimited resources of the state are leveled against him in order to attempt to undermine what is obvious self-defense. Now, in light of these two scenarios, consider what "criminal justice reform" actually means. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiotAct Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 definitely read this as “Julio Jones” at first glance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbillievable Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 20 hours ago, T master said: The death penalty is not wrong if there is undeniable, indisputable proof that the person is guilty if there isn't that proof then it should be off the table in such cases like Bundy, Manson, JW Gassy, Dahmer sorry but they weren't worth keeping alive and paying for it . P.S. the man that says the death penalty is wrong yet heads up a post about the Texas law stopping abortion and when his liberal buddy Billstime writes a reply on that post that said : "As Texas turns blue - this won't last . Besides - it won't stop one abortion -this is nothing more than are meat for pigs" Tibs gives a thumbs up --- Double standard - Talking out of both sides of his mouth ? Not okay to put to death someone that has been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt ("Death Penalty is just wrong") & been proved to have killed one or multiple people but quite possibly agrees it's wrong to stop some one from abortion & may think it's okay to take or make a decision to take a completely innocent life ???????????? 🤔😞😪 To many, it is impossible to have "indeniable, indeputable proof that the person is guilty." Death is so final that I will only accept a confession as proof; That means that he is truly guilty, or wants to die anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaCrispy Posted November 20, 2021 Share Posted November 20, 2021 On 11/18/2021 at 4:03 PM, gobills404 said: The left has more empathy for black criminals than their white victims. What else is new. They also have more empathy for black criminals than they do for black patriots...👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted November 22, 2021 Share Posted November 22, 2021 (edited) On 11/19/2021 at 2:09 PM, unbillievable said: To many, it is impossible to have "indeniable, indeputable proof that the person is guilty." Death is so final that I will only accept a confession as proof; That means that he is truly guilty, or wants to die anyway. WHAT ?? So if 3 or more people watch someone stand and pull the trigger of a gun or watch someone push another person off of a building with the premeditated intent of killing them and immediately after that the same person is caught by the police they shouldn't be given the death penalty ? Or if in a different scenario 3 or more people see some one start a fire that was premeditated to kill or permanently harm other people for life at a building housing say 15 people some being innocent children that can't escape & burn to death because of that persons actions that would be impossible to have undeniable, indisputable proof of a heinous act ? And then even if caught with that proof the only way that person should be put to death is if they say yes i did it ? So then in your way of thinking you think Jefferey Dahmer & others i mentioned that premeditated or planned actions to kill others should have been given life in prison rather than the death penalty even if they knew what they were doing was sick and wrong to take another life repeatedly ? Yes you are correct death is so final especially if another kills a totally innocent person out of total evil just to satisfy their personal demented fantasy's !! And should be put to death ... So If so i will have to say i totally disagree with your thinking !! Edited November 22, 2021 by T master Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbillievable Posted November 22, 2021 Share Posted November 22, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, T master said: WHAT ?? So if 3 or more people watch someone stand and pull the trigger of a gun or watch someone push another person off of a building with the premeditated intent of killing them and immediately after that the same person is caught by the police they shouldn't be given the death penalty ? Or if in a different scenario 3 or more people see some one start a fire that was premeditated to kill or permanently harm other people for life at a building housing say 15 people some being innocent children that can't escape & burn to death because of that persons actions that would be impossible to have undeniable, indisputable proof of a heinous act ? And then even if caught with that proof the only way that person should be put to death is if they say yes i did it ? So then in your way of thinking you think Jefferey Dahmer & others i mentioned that premeditated or planned actions to kill others should have been given life in prison rather than the death penalty even if they knew what they were doing was sick and wrong to take another life repeatedly ? Yes you are correct death is so final especially if another kills a totally innocent person out of total evil just to satisfy their personal demented fantasy's !! And should be put to death ... So If so i will have to say i totally disagree with your thinking !! Yes. 1) we can't trust the 3 people to not be lying. 2) we can't trust the 3 or more people not to be experiencing mass hysteria. 3) we can't trust that evidence wasn't planted. Humans are corrupt. Video can be faked. The only way to be sure is if the accused person admits to doing it. The Death penalty should go way beyond just "reasonable doubt". No evidence is admissible, except admitted to by the accused. 3 levels of guilt Civil = which side makes more sense Criminal = reasonable doubt Death Penalty = No doubt. if you're going to take 100% of a person's options, you better be 100% sure he's guilty; which is impossible outside a confession. Edited November 22, 2021 by unbillievable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 On 11/22/2021 at 10:12 AM, unbillievable said: Yes. 1) we can't trust the 3 people to not be lying. 2) we can't trust the 3 or more people not to be experiencing mass hysteria. 3) we can't trust that evidence wasn't planted. Humans are corrupt. Video can be faked. The only way to be sure is if the accused person admits to doing it. The Death penalty should go way beyond just "reasonable doubt". No evidence is admissible, except admitted to by the accused. 3 levels of guilt Civil = which side makes more sense Criminal = reasonable doubt Death Penalty = No doubt. if you're going to take 100% of a person's options, you better be 100% sure he's guilty; which is impossible outside a confession. So then what you are saying is every person that has ever committed a murder or a crime against a completely innocent person like the guy that just ran over & killed all those people in the parade and it is proven beyond a shadow of a doubt and the evidence is concrete proof be by eye witness, camera's, scientifically proven not to mention the persons recent history of violence & there is no doubt still the only way a person should be put to death is if they admit to the crime ??? Sorry but that's a wacked way of thinking !! If video's are faked that can be proven by science to be as much ! Yes some humans not all are corrupt but believe it or not in todays world there are still some that still have moral standards and live by certain rules such as those in the bible to be honest human beings so even though todays world is way beyond F'd up there are still some good people that wouldn't see a crime & then just lie about it . And as far as the mass hysteria thing goes those in power cause that every day you just have to be able to see through the BS and figure out what is truth & what is not which leads back to the prior sentence that there are still some good people left . Then the flaw in your theory his this, If you are going to put faith in a person that goes out and commits a premeditated crime & if you think the person that could take another life in this crime & more than likely before the crime committed deceived many others into thinking he or she were a good person then to expected that same person to tell the truth in saying yes i did it so they can be punished in any way (other than 3 hots & a cot) you are more foolish than you know !! But that's just me . In my eyes there is right and there is wrong there is not 3 levels of it that is lawyer speak weather it be civil or criminal there is only right or wrong doings in both no grey area BS that is a huge part of what is wrong today . I guess i will just have to put my faith in the system set forth to bring those to justice which in some ways yes could have flaws but in a lot of ways is better that the alternative . Bad guy steal, bad guys kill, bad guys cheat, but most of all bad guys lie and can in no way be trusted to be anything but . So keep believing maybe 1 day they would admit freely & truthfully to their wrong doings but i'm not seeing it unless it is proven . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbillievable Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 1 hour ago, T master said: So then what you are saying is every person that has ever committed a murder or a crime against a completely innocent person like the guy that just ran over & killed all those people in the parade and it is proven beyond a shadow of a doubt and the evidence is concrete proof be by eye witness, camera's, scientifically proven not to mention the persons recent history of violence & there is no doubt still the only way a person should be put to death is if they admit to the crime ??? Sorry but that's a wacked way of thinking !! If video's are faked that can be proven by science to be as much ! Yes some humans not all are corrupt but believe it or not in todays world there are still some that still have moral standards and live by certain rules such as those in the bible to be honest human beings so even though todays world is way beyond F'd up there are still some good people that wouldn't see a crime & then just lie about it . And as far as the mass hysteria thing goes those in power cause that every day you just have to be able to see through the BS and figure out what is truth & what is not which leads back to the prior sentence that there are still some good people left . Then the flaw in your theory his this, If you are going to put faith in a person that goes out and commits a premeditated crime & if you think the person that could take another life in this crime & more than likely before the crime committed deceived many others into thinking he or she were a good person then to expected that same person to tell the truth in saying yes i did it so they can be punished in any way (other than 3 hots & a cot) you are more foolish than you know !! But that's just me . In my eyes there is right and there is wrong there is not 3 levels of it that is lawyer speak weather it be civil or criminal there is only right or wrong doings in both no grey area BS that is a huge part of what is wrong today . I guess i will just have to put my faith in the system set forth to bring those to justice which in some ways yes could have flaws but in a lot of ways is better that the alternative . Bad guy steal, bad guys kill, bad guys cheat, but most of all bad guys lie and can in no way be trusted to be anything but . So keep believing maybe 1 day they would admit freely & truthfully to their wrong doings but i'm not seeing it unless it is proven . There is no flaw in my reasoning. None of what you said above matters. Everything you cited has to do with finding blame and doling out punishment. You're trying to prove someone deserves to die. You're seeking justice, not evidence. I'm saying, for the death penalty, we have to be 100% sure they did it. Which is impossible without a confession. Their criminal history or bad personality has no bearing on that fact. Needing to have "faith" proves the system is fallible. Life in prison already removes them from society. Eventually, they will die anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeviF Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 45 minutes ago, unbillievable said: There is no flaw in my reasoning. None of what you said above matters. Everything you cited has to do with finding blame and doling out punishment. You're trying to prove someone deserves to die. You're seeking justice, not evidence. I'm saying, for the death penalty, we have to be 100% sure they did it. Which is impossible without a confession. Their criminal history or bad personality has no bearing on that fact. Needing to have "faith" proves the system is fallible. Life in prison already removes them from society. Eventually, they will die anyway. I'm trying to sort your reasoning but my experience with the court system makes your position unclear to me. What do you mean by "confession?" As in a confession that is presented to a jury within the rules of evidence? Or an allocution? Or at any point in time they "confessed," whether under a circumstance where it falls under the various rules of evidence and within their consitutional rights to be presented at trial, or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbillievable Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 1 hour ago, LeviF said: I'm trying to sort your reasoning but my experience with the court system makes your position unclear to me. What do you mean by "confession?" As in a confession that is presented to a jury within the rules of evidence? Or an allocution? Or at any point in time they "confessed," whether under a circumstance where it falls under the various rules of evidence and within their consitutional rights to be presented at trial, or not? By confession, I mean the accused comes out and says they did it. Makes a statement in public; not under interrogation or duress. Like this guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted November 25, 2021 Share Posted November 25, 2021 (edited) 21 hours ago, unbillievable said: There is no flaw in my reasoning. None of what you said above matters. Everything you cited has to do with finding blame and doling out punishment. You're trying to prove someone deserves to die. You're seeking justice, not evidence. I'm saying, for the death penalty, we have to be 100% sure they did it. Which is impossible without a confession. Their criminal history or bad personality has no bearing on that fact. Needing to have "faith" proves the system is fallible. Life in prison already removes them from society. Eventually, they will die anyway. Okay well your set in your beliefs & the only thing we are going to agree on is to disagree ! Sure it takes them out of society but the burden of those peoples crimes then are put back on you and I to pay for their easy life for the rest of it. Yes they will die eventually but it will all be on your/our dime . 3 hots and a cot, health care, housing, dental, electric,water , gas, a work out facility and every other need because they decided be a scum bag . Sure there are those that make mistakes and can be rehabilitated but those usually aren't those that are serial killers which should be put to death despite your weak stance on them . I just wish that they could divide it up in each persons individual belief system if you believe that they should have life in prison you pay for it they can take extra out of your pay check every week till they die if i believe in the death penalty i'll pay for the shot & a funeral . I would also imagine you are for letting all the illegals in and the majority of the working class paying for them too so i can only make a pretty good assumption where your vote went just by your thoughts on this discussion so once again we will have to agree to disagree . Because in no way do i want to give a free ride to any one who makes the conscious decision to break the law in order to take advantage of any innocent person in any way and if you are put in prison you should be made to work for what you get for free from us that have to work to pay for it . The punishment should fit the crime ! A eye for a eye . Just saying ... Edited November 25, 2021 by T master Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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