Pretty good summation from Cover1

[CSBill]

Well, for perspective, we did draft three offensive linemen this year. One is a starter. And we brought in three Free Agents who started on other teams. So it’s not like it has been totally ignored. 

 

Regardless: Mr Bates and Mr Douglas, here is your opportunity.

 

Oh, and Mr Johnson, you can leave now. Your employment in Buffalo has come to an end. 

[DCbillsfan]

17 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Not really.  

We had Boettger in at LG a good part of the season - 9 games towards the end

We had Mongo in at RG

Ford basically didn’t play after game 6 and went on IR game 9

 

Some of the same players just don’t seem to be playing to the same level - Dawkins, Williams, Mongo

 

But I think part of it is that the tape is out on how to mess with our OL effectively

That does point at something the coaches need to address and adjust

 

The Bills Oline really started getting exposed last year in the playoffs.  Some of it may be attributable to coaching but I believe a fair amount of it is a lack of overall talent.  

 

They are having trouble dealing with guys who are quick off the snap who possess tremendous strength.  The Bills need oline guys who are more athletic, bigger and stronger.  Spencer Brown is a good add imo. 

 

I am somewhat frustrated by the drafting of Carlos Basham this year.  The 2nd round seemed like a good spot to draft a C/G who likely could have contributed this season.  Instead we take a DE, who is one of six, and is inactive most game days.  The frustration is not directed towards Basham.

[FireChans]

13 minutes ago, DCbillsfan said:

The Bills Oline really started getting exposed last year in the playoffs.  Some of it may be attributable to coaching but I believe a fair amount of it is a lack of overall talent.  

 

They are having trouble dealing with guys who are quick off the snap who possess tremendous strength.  The Bills need oline guys who are more athletic, bigger and stronger.  Spencer Brown is a good add imo. 

 

I am somewhat frustrated by the drafting of Carlos Basham this year.  The 2nd round seemed like a good spot to draft a C/G who likely could have contributed this season.  Instead we take a DE, who is one of six, and is inactive most game days.  The frustration is not directed towards Basham.

Basham was drafted because AJ looked like the second coming of Cody Ford.

[Pete]

we spent 2nd round pick on Basham and dont even dress him.  Seems like a waste of a 2nd round pick.  We even turned down trades for that pick

[vincec]

3 hours ago, CSBill said:

Well, for perspective, we did draft three offensive linemen this year. One is a starter. And we brought in three Free Agents who started on other teams. So it’s not like it has been totally ignored. 

 

Regardless: Mr Bates and Mr Douglas, here is your opportunity.

 

Oh, and Mr Johnson, you can leave now. Your employment in Buffalo has come to an end. 

I agree with this part, but unfortunately that's not going to happen until the end of the season.

[Ned Flanders]

18 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

They didn't though.  I rewound the DVR.  He flinched well before a D linemen even moved.  He flinched on Allens hard count.  It was the right call.  I thought the same thing you are saying in the moment which is why I went back and looked.

Yeah, I saw a clip as well that showed the flinch...I stand corrected.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

17 hours ago, DCbillsfan said:

The Bills Oline really started getting exposed last year in the playoffs.  Some of it may be attributable to coaching but I believe a fair amount of it is a lack of overall talent.  

 

They are having trouble dealing with guys who are quick off the snap who possess tremendous strength.  The Bills need oline guys who are more athletic, bigger and stronger.  Spencer Brown is a good add imo. 

 

I am somewhat frustrated by the drafting of Carlos Basham this year.  The 2nd round seemed like a good spot to draft a C/G who likely could have contributed this season.  Instead we take a DE, who is one of six, and is inactive most game days.  The frustration is not directed towards Basham.

 

To that last, I share your frustration, but I'll also say that many have argued with me (in previous years) that I'm espousing "drafting for need" over "best player available".  I also think that Beane likes to do the "belt and suspenders" approach when addressing a need.

 

It's easy to say "more athletic, bigger and stronger", but those traits are hard to find in the same person.  Morse is a very athletic center.  He's never going to be the big mauler who blows the nose tackle back 3 yards.  On the other hand, a big strong OT like Orlando Brown, Jr may not adapt to the athleticism that's needed to help a QB like Pat Mahomes extend the play.

 

Everyone wants guys who are quick off the snap and possess tremendous strength and athleticism.  They're in short supply, since every team would like about 8.

 

I've been manic-depressive about the Bills OL since 2017, when pretty much the same cast of characters that was a good OL in 2016 downgraded under Juan Castillo, and got much worse in 2018 when we lost Woods and Incognito, we signed and started Vlad Ducasse, and the line blatantly sucked.  I thought then that inability to properly evaluate OL talent would be our downfall.

 

Then in 2019, we changed OL coaches from "Teflon Juan" to the capable Bobby Johnson and did that "belt and suspenders" approach to the problem of horrible line play esp. at C which Beane likes: signed Morse as C as a big FA splash, but also signed a proven capable (not great) C in Spencer Long.  Drafted Cody Ford in the 2nd round as the hoped-for Franchise RT, but also signed the capable (if long in the tooth) dark horse Ty Nsekhe to a decent FA contract.  Signed Quinton Spain and Jon Feliciano as FA who had both shown they could play competently, but also traded a low draft pick for Ryan Bates and retained Ike Boettger.  And the line was "OK" - not great, but passable.  Beane acknowledged that he made a mistake in not doing more on OL in 2018.  I breathed a big sigh of relief.

 

In hindsight, trading Wyatt Teller while keeping Boettger and Bates was a terrible mistake.  (Long got the nod because they knew he could play C, which they did not know about Bates and Feliciano at the time, and Morse spent PS in concussion protocol).  I think "positional flexibility" is sometimes overvalued by the Bills on OL.

 

Be that as it may, instead of coming back strong from injury Ford is looking like a 2nd round bust.  Williams and Dawkins have both regressed to a stunning degree.  Boettger has not developed into a quality starter, and apparently Bates has not either.  So that either that makes the Teller trade look dumber in retrospect, or makes Bobby Johnson and his staff look poor at evaluating and developing OL talent.  It's notable that Spain is playing pretty well for the Bengals now, and even Bobby Hart is looking like a capable LT while Dawkins and Williams look incompetent at T.

 

So I'm back in my depressive phase, wondering WTF is amiss.  It's not that Dawkins and Williams can't be quality NFL starters at T, they have showed that they can.  Boettger, too, looked better last season.  It's maddening.

[DCbillsfan]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

To that last, I share your frustration, but I'll also say that many have argued with me (in previous years) that I'm espousing "drafting for need" over "best player available".  I also think that Beane likes to do the "belt and suspenders" approach when addressing a need.

 

It's easy to say "more athletic, bigger and stronger", but those traits are hard to find in the same person.  Morse is a very athletic center.  He's never going to be the big mauler who blows the nose tackle back 3 yards.  On the other hand, a big strong OT like Orlando Brown, Jr may not adapt to the athleticism that's needed to help a QB like Pat Mahomes extend the play.

 

Everyone wants guys who are quick off the snap and possess tremendous strength and athleticism.  They're in short supply, since every team would like about 8.

 

I've been manic-depressive about the Bills OL since 2017, when pretty much the same cast of characters that was a good OL in 2016 downgraded under Juan Castillo, and got much worse in 2018 when we lost Woods and Incognito, we signed and started Vlad Ducasse, and the line blatantly sucked.  I thought then that inability to properly evaluate OL talent would be our downfall.

 

Then in 2019, we changed OL coaches from "Teflon Juan" to the capable Bobby Johnson and did that "belt and suspenders" approach to the problem of horrible line play esp. at C which Beane likes: signed Morse as C as a big FA splash, but also signed a proven capable (not great) C in Spencer Long.  Drafted Cody Ford in the 2nd round as the hoped-for Franchise RT, but also signed the capable (if long in the tooth) dark horse Ty Nsekhe to a decent FA contract.  Signed Quinton Spain and Jon Feliciano as FA who had both shown they could play competently, but also traded a low draft pick for Ryan Bates and retained Ike Boettger.  And the line was "OK" - not great, but passable.  Beane acknowledged that he made a mistake in not doing more on OL in 2018.  I breathed a big sigh of relief.

 

In hindsight, trading Wyatt Teller while keeping Boettger and Bates was a terrible mistake.  (Long got the nod because they knew he could play C, which they did not know about Bates and Feliciano at the time, and Morse spent PS in concussion protocol).  I think "positional flexibility" is sometimes overvalued by the Bills on OL.

 

Be that as it may, instead of coming back strong from injury Ford is looking like a 2nd round bust.  Williams and Dawkins have both regressed to a stunning degree.  Boettger has not developed into a quality starter, and apparently Bates has not either.  So that either that makes the Teller trade look dumber in retrospect, or makes Bobby Johnson and his staff look poor at evaluating and developing OL talent.  It's notable that Spain is playing pretty well for the Bengals now, and even Bobby Hart is looking like a capable LT while Dawkins and Williams look incompetent at T.

 

So I'm back in my depressive phase, wondering WTF is amiss.  It's not that Dawkins and Williams can't be quality NFL starters at T, they have showed that they can.  Boettger, too, looked better last season.  It's maddening.

I see your point regarding drafting best available vs. drafting for need.  Picking Boogie seems too much of a good thing I.e. 6 DEs.  It's basically a red shirt season for him and more of a future pick as opposed to a current season need.  Ford is just bad and it would be nice to insert a young and upcoming OL guy into the mix this season but no - he ain't on the roster.

 

Regarding more athletic, bigger and stronger guys - I believe the Bills got that with Spencer Brown.  At 6'8 he certainly checks the bigger box.  Time will tell but he certainly looks more comfortable at RT than Ford ever did. 

 

The Morse FA signing seemed to me more of a desperation signing.  The Bills needed a guy who could step in right away and play center.  The center position was a huge liability before signing him and he was the best available.  He's not a mauler type though and I believe Beane will want to go that route in the near future.

 

Here's hoping to some serious investment in young OL guys this off season.  I'm thinking via draft but with Beane you never know.  He should be able to upgrade a few OL roster spots without too much trouble.