Jerry Jones - thinks Bills unique .. should not leave Buffalo

[Doc]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

LOL-- Pegula couldn't wait to goose those "discussions" from the get go!

 

Sites were being scouted for years.  No one was seriously pushing for renovations on the PSE doc.  Stop. Bottom line:  you cannot credibly claim (now) you were of the belief (then) that Pegula would/could threaten to move the team if the overwhelmingly likely scenario of a new stadium was desired by PSE came to pass. 

 

Most SD citizens aren't crying much I bet over the Chargers--they voted overwhelmingly against it (57-43%).  St. Louis citizens agitated against publicly funding a new stadium so loudly that a bill was introduced that would require a a public vote before funds could be used. It died because local politicians thought it would be a vote against funding.  The Raiders have come and gone form OAK more than once. 

 

Not so much with the "crying and moaning"....

 

You just keep (unwittingly, as always) making my point weo.  A new stadium wasn't even close to being a lock until just a year or so ago.  Sure Terry was trying to "goose" the discussions, hoping to keep renovating the Ralph, like Lambeau and Arrowhead have been.  Now that it has been determined he needs a new stadium, he's asking the taxpayers to pay for a good chunk of it.  And they will and thus the team will stay in Buffalo.  So...as I said when he bought the team: "the Bills will remain in Buffalo for the rest of my lifetime."  Deal with it, accept it and move on.

 

And Oakland will never see another NFL team again so who cares if they cry.  Meanwhile it remains to be seen if SD will pursue a new team.  But Baltimore, Cleveland and Houston...

Edited September 7, 2021 by Doc

[Mr. WEO]

36 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

You just keep (unwittingly, as always) making my point weo.  A new stadium wasn't even close to being a lock until just a year or so ago.  Sure Terry was trying to "goose" the discussions, hoping to keep renovating the Ralph, like Lambeau and Arrowhead have been.  Now that it has been determined he needs a new stadium, he's asking the taxpayers to pay for a good chunk of it.  And they will and thus the team will stay in Buffalo.  So...as I said when he bought the team: "the Bills will remain in Buffalo for the rest of my lifetime."  Deal with it, accept it and move on.

 

And Oakland will never see another NFL team again so who cares if they cry.  Meanwhile it remains to be seen if SD will pursue a new team.  But Baltimore, Cleveland and Houston...

 

No, he wasn't.  You made that up.  He wanted a new stadium.  He funded studies that would look into locations and what fans might want as far as design.  He had no interest in another significant renovation--which everyone knew were not possible structurally/fiscally.  The year he bought the team, he was looking.  Since the locals had just shelled out 100 million in reno's before he bought the team, he wasn't going to tell them to knock it down--but he was looking.  All evidence confirms this. 

 

He's clearly a guy who would move the team if he didn't get the funding he wants (that doesn't make him worse than the others).  This has also been made clear, despite what many were saying when he bought the team.  Few of those people would have, back then, said "yeah, I can see under some circumstances, Pegula would threaten to move the Bills" (the point of this discussion).  You were not in that group, doc.  Admit it and move on.

 

What if the gov't offers him 200-400 million, final offer?  

[Doc]

16 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

No, he wasn't.  You made that up.  He wanted a new stadium.  He funded studies that would look into locations and what fans might want as far as design.  He had no interest in another significant renovation--which everyone knew were not possible structurally/fiscally.  The year he bought the team, he was looking.  Since the locals had just shelled out 100 million in reno's before he bought the team, he wasn't going to tell them to knock it down--but he was looking.  All evidence confirms this. 

 

He's clearly a guy who would move the team if he didn't get the funding he wants (that doesn't make him worse than the others).  This has also been made clear, despite what many were saying when he bought the team.  Few of those people would have, back then, said "yeah, I can see under some circumstances, Pegula would threaten to move the Bills" (the point of this discussion).  You were not in that group, doc.  Admit it and move on.

 

What if the gov't offers him 200-400 million, final offer?  

 

Yeah Terry was looking into a new stadium...because the owners were telling him he needed to have one, not necessarily because he wanted one.  If you have a link proving otherwise, do share.  But as of 2016, Russ Brandon was publicly saying "we’ve had zero discussions relative to anything related to a new stadium.”  Maybe you were in high level meetings, but wanting to renovate rather than spend 3/4 of a billion or more on a new stadium is what I thought.

 

And I told you for years that Ralph could have moved or sold the Bills any number of times (spare me the "he would never have moved" as that's not the point).  Why do you think I would think any differently with Terry?

 

As for what Terry's cut-off is, I don't know.  But I doubt $400M gets it done.

 

[JakeFrommStateFarm]

7 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Citizens in NY don't get to vote for or against tax increases.

 

Thats surprising.  Isn't that taxation without representation ?

[cba fan]

19 minutes ago, JakeFrommStateFarm said:

Thats surprising.  Isn't that taxation without representation ?

Possibly but highly subjective. It depends on your opinion of if a "Republican Democracy" is representation.

Some say it is some say it is not.

Someone coming from a country with a gov't that a King, Royal family, dictator, military General, Iman, Ayatollah, etc.......makes all laws, would say it is representation.

Full democracy never could work. How would changes/laws  etc....etc. be formulated and how could every citizen vote for every measure proposed? It would be gridlock.

Democracy works in small groups however is not scalable.

 

Edited September 7, 2021 by cba fan

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, JakeFrommStateFarm said:

Thats surprising.  Isn't that taxation without representation ?

 

 

No.  Your elected representatives set tax rates.

[Punching Bag]

1 hour ago, JakeFrommStateFarm said:

Thats surprising.  Isn't that taxation without representation ?

 

Representation is electing representatives who are supposed to vote on behalf of their constituents.

 

We live in a republic not a democracy.

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

As for what Terry's cut-off is, I don't know.  But I doubt $400M gets it done.

 

 

Amount contributing should be a factor in yearly rent.  Higher contribution, lower rent.

[Mr. WEO]

2 hours ago, Doc said:

 ne.  If you have a link proving otherwise, do share.  But as of 2016, Russ Brandon was publicly saying "we’ve had zero discussions relative to anything related to a new stadium.”  Maybe you were in high level meetings, but wanting to renovate rather than spend 3/4 of a billion or more on a new stadium is what I thought.

 

And I told you for years that Ralph could have moved or sold the Bills any number of times (spare me the "he would never have moved" as that's not the point).  Why do you think I would think any differently with Terry?

 

As for what Terry's cut-off is, I don't know.  But I doubt $400M gets it done.

 

 

Hmmm...2016?  This is what Pegula was saying in 2016, as an example of what these guys say publicly:

 

"You have to have continuity, don’t care if you’re drilling oil in gas wells or you’re running a sports team. If you keep changing things, nothing’s going to work."

Despite reports, Pegula says he never considered letting Ryan or general manager Doug Whaley go after last season, and there's "no way" their jobs rely on a playoff appearance this year.

"Our coach needs to know that, through the good and the bad, there’s stability. The players need to know there’s stability," Pegula said. "And by the way, that doesn’t help our players any to start reading that their coach is going to get fired."

 

Of course he soon canned Rex.

 

Anyway...

 

Russ obviously can't be telling the truth in 2016.  In 2014, Pegula joined a working group to study the feasibility of a new stadium formed by Cuomo. The County also put some people on it as did the Bills (including a guy also named "Russ Brandon"!).  Within a year they had hired an outside consultant company who came up with 4 new stadium locations.  That was in 2015.  Pegula laid low for 2 years then said he would wait until after the 2018 elections to pursue a new stadium.  Then in 2018  he hired CAA/ICON to begin the endlessly awaited secret "study" of what the fans would want: renovation or a new stadium (it shockingly found they demanded a new stadium!!).  The county tossed in $500K for a "new stadium fund".  Any meaningful talk of a renovation option was really dead 3 years ago. 

 

So at $400 M, Pegula, the Savior of the Bills Who Prevented Them From Inevitably Moving To Toronto's Tiny Baseball Stadium, waves goodbye and calls....Austin?  Or, wait, what was it where you imagined Ralph sending the moving vans to....San Antonio!

 

 

[Doc]

2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Hmmm...2016?  This is what Pegula was saying in 2016, as an example of what these guys say publicly:

 

"You have to have continuity, don’t care if you’re drilling oil in gas wells or you’re running a sports team. If you keep changing things, nothing’s going to work."

Despite reports, Pegula says he never considered letting Ryan or general manager Doug Whaley go after last season, and there's "no way" their jobs rely on a playoff appearance this year.

"Our coach needs to know that, through the good and the bad, there’s stability. The players need to know there’s stability," Pegula said. "And by the way, that doesn’t help our players any to start reading that their coach is going to get fired."

 

Of course he soon canned Rex.

 

Anyway...

 

Russ obviously can't be telling the truth in 2016.  In 2014, Pegula joined a working group to study the feasibility of a new stadium formed by Cuomo. The County also put some people on it as did the Bills (including a guy also named "Russ Brandon"!).  Within a year they had hired an outside consultant company who came up with 4 new stadium locations.  That was in 2015.  Pegula laid low for 2 years then said he would wait until after the 2018 elections to pursue a new stadium.  Then in 2018  he hired CAA/ICON to begin the endlessly awaited secret "study" of what the fans would want: renovation or a new stadium (it shockingly found they demanded a new stadium!!).  The county tossed in $500K for a "new stadium fund".  Any meaningful talk of a renovation option was really dead 3 years ago. 

 

So at $400 M, Pegula, the Savior of the Bills Who Prevented Them From Inevitably Moving To Toronto's Tiny Baseball Stadium, waves goodbye and calls....Austin?  Or, wait, what was it where you imagined Ralph sending the moving vans to....San Antonio!

 

Again weo, I said that Ralph could have moved or sold the team (doesn't matter where or when, that's just you trying to deflect, as I predicted you would) if he didn't get what he wanted.  Why would I think Terry would be any different?  You know the answer, even if you won't admit it.  Doesn't matter, so does everyone else.  And that takes care of what started this whole thing.

 

And I'm sorry if you were under the delusion that any owner of the Bills was ever going to pay entirely, or even a major part, for a new stadium in Buffalo, NY, much less one he/she wasn't going to own.  But you know, I know and everyone else knows the taxpayers will kick in a huge chunk of money for a new stadium, and (wait for it)...the Bills won't leave Buffalo.  The sooner you accept it, the better off we'll all be.

[Mr. WEO]

21 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Again weo, I said that Ralph could have moved or sold the team (doesn't matter where or when, that's just you trying to deflect, as I predicted you would) if he didn't get what he wanted.  Why would I think Terry would be any different?  You know the answer, even if you won't admit it.  Doesn't matter, so does everyone else.  And that takes care of what started this whole thing.

 

And I'm sorry if you were under the delusion that any owner of the Bills was ever going to pay entirely, or even a major part, for a new stadium in Buffalo, NY, much less one he/she wasn't going to own.  But you know, I know and everyone else knows the taxpayers will kick in a huge chunk of money for a new stadium, and (wait for it)...the Bills won't leave Buffalo.  The sooner you accept it, the better off we'll all be.

 

Look, doc...if you want to come on here now and claim that, all along, you were a guy who said that if Pegula didn't get what he wanted in public money for a new stadium (OR for a massive renovation), that he would threaten to and likely move the team......I mean, hey, if you are willing to make such a nutty claim---I guess I'll just let you....because it's so absurd that it's funny.  

 

I find that you, right off the bat, pegged Pegs as a "gimme or I'm gone" owner heartbreakingly cynical, doc. 

[dave mcbride]

8 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Well, in SD, with an NFL approval in January 2016 to move the team a year later, AND after the Chargers (just in case) had registered the name "Los Angeles Chargers", AND having already filed an application to move to LA AND an agreement to share the LA stadium with the Rams......even with all that, the citizens of SD still overwhelmingly rejected funding of a stadium.

 

 

The population of San Diego is … very, very different from the population of western NY.

[Mr. WEO]

Just now, dave mcbride said:

The population of San Diego is … very, very different from the population of western NY.

 

St Louis isn't.

 

This isn't hard to figure out.  Ask the citizens if they want to see the Bills to leave Buffalo.  They would say no almost to a person.

 

Ask them if they are willing, through their local tax revenue to pay proportionally more for the Bills to stay in Buffalo (so that  fans in Rochester, Ontario, Syracuse, etc can continue rooting for a Buffalo team).  I bet the results are similar to those in SD.

[dave mcbride]

3 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

St Louis isn't.

 

This isn't hard to figure out.  Ask the citizens if they want to see the Bills to leave Buffalo.  They would say no almost to a person.

 

Ask them if they are willing, through their local tax revenue to pay proportionally more for the Bills to stay in Buffalo (so that  fans in Rochester, Ontario, Syracuse, etc can continue rooting for a Buffalo team).  I bet the results are similar to those in SD.

Bills fans will pay. I lived for 20+ years in Buffalo and 8 years in southern California and my wife worked in southern california govt for a half dozen years. They are not remotely similiar.

[Mr. WEO]

6 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Bills fans will pay. I lived for 20+ years in Buffalo and 8 years in southern California and my wife worked in southern california govt for a half dozen years. They are not remotely similiar.

 

Rams fans were certain St. Louis would pay.  Oakland would pay.  Houston would pay (even though they just payed for Astrodome renovations).  Every town that lost a team was sure that the local gov't would pay. 

[Doc]

 

12 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

Look, doc...if you want to come on here now and claim that, all along, you were a guy who said that if Pegula didn't get what he wanted in public money for a new stadium (OR for a massive renovation), that he would threaten to and likely move the team......I mean, hey, if you are willing to make such a nutty claim---I guess I'll just let you....because it's so absurd that it's funny.  

 

I find that you, right off the bat, pegged Pegs as a "gimme or I'm gone" owner heartbreakingly cynical, doc. 

 

 

It's absurd that I said that Ralph could have moved/sold the team...but wouldn't think the same for Terry?  LOL!  Good one weo!

 

Find where I ever said "Terry is keeping the Bills in Buffalo no matter what."  You can't because I never did.

 

[Mr. WEO]

2 hours ago, Doc said:

 

 

 

 

 

Find where I ever said "Terry is keeping the Bills in Buffalo no matter what."  You can't because I never did.

 

 

 

Found it:

 

 

23 hours ago, Doc said:

 

So...as I said when he bought the team: "the Bills will remain in Buffalo for the rest of my lifetime."  Deal with it, accept it and move on.

 

 

 

 

I had to scroll all the way to the top of this page!  You're making me work too hard, doc....

[Doc]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

Found it:

 

 

 

 

I had to scroll all the way to the top of this page!  You're making me work too hard, doc....

 

I still don't see a "no matter what" in there.  I also knew Ralph would keep the Bills in Buffalo as long as he was alive. 

 

Keep digging, weo!  Maybe a few pages earlier...

 

And hey, I'm sorry Jon Bovi didn't become the owner like you fantasized.  I'm sure he would have kept the Bills in Buffalo (what with the Toronto stadium feasibility study his group commissioned, and based on your logic, you know what that means) and paid the entire $1.4B of his own money to build a new stadium.  Right.

Edited September 8, 2021 by Doc

[Mr. WEO]

5 hours ago, Doc said:

 

I still don't see a "no matter what" in there.  I also knew Ralph would keep the Bills in Buffalo as long as he was alive. 

 

Keep digging, weo!  Maybe a few pages earlier...

 

And hey, I'm sorry Jon Bovi didn't become the owner like you fantasized.  I'm sure he would have kept the Bills in Buffalo (what with the Toronto stadium feasibility study his group commissioned, and based on your logic, you know what that means) and paid the entire $1.4B of his own money to build a new stadium.  Right.

 

Bon Jovi was never a legit buyer---just like "The Kelley Group" (lol, sorry man..).

 

Anyway, "The Bills will remain in Buffalo for the rest of my lifetime" wasn't an equivocal statement.  It needs no extra room  for a redundant "no matter what". It's forceful simplicity allowed for no incorrect interpretation or qualification.....

 

 

......until now! (here we go again!). NOW you're saying that really means "for the rest of my lifetime....unless he doesn't get what he wants for the public---then they're out of here".  Sure, like, whatever...right??!

 

 

No one runs from his plainly stated opinions like the doc!

[Doc]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

Bon Jovi was never a legit buyer---just like "The Kelley Group" (lol, sorry man..).

 

Anyway, "The Bills will remain in Buffalo for the rest of my lifetime" wasn't an equivocal statement.  It needs no extra room  for a redundant "no matter what". It's forceful simplicity allowed for no incorrect interpretation or qualification.....

 

 

......until now! (here we go again!). NOW you're saying that really means "for the rest of my lifetime....unless he doesn't get what he wants for the public---then they're out of here".  Sure, like, whatever...right??!

 

 

No one runs from his plainly stated opinions like the doc!

 

Yes, I guess I should have specified (to you, since you're the only one who seems to have a problem understanding) each and every instance that could cause Terry to not keep the Bills in Buffalo:

 

"Unless he's embroiled in a legal/ethical scandal and is forced to sell the team."

 

"Unless he gambles away all his money and has to sell the team."

 

"Unless he has an affair, Kim divorces him and has to sell the team."

 

"Unless he and Kim die prematurely, the team passes to the kids, they don't want it and..." well, you get the idea.

 

Should I go on?  Or have you had enough yet?

 

And just for ***** and giggles, who is this mythical owner that you fantasize would spend $1.4B, or even $1B, on a new stadium in Buffalo?  You must have someone in mind because you keep whining about Terry not being willing to finance it himself.  Let's hear it weo.  This is your chance to shine!

Edited September 9, 2021 by Doc

[Mr. WEO]

12 hours ago, Doc said:

 

Yes, I guess I should have specified (to you, since you're the only one who seems to have a problem understanding) each and every instance that could cause Terry to not keep the Bills in Buffalo:

 

"Unless he's embroiled in a legal/ethical scandal and is forced to sell the team."

 

"Unless he gambles away all his money and has to sell the team."

 

"Unless he has an affair, Kim divorces him and has to sell the team."

 

"Unless he and Kim die prematurely, the team passes to the kids, they don't want it and..." well, you get the idea.

 

Should I go on?  Or have you had enough yet?

 

And just for ***** and giggles, who is this mythical owner that you fantasize would spend $1.4B, or even $1B, on a new stadium in Buffalo?  You must have someone in mind because you keep whining about Terry not being willing to finance it himself.  Let's hear it weo.  This is your chance to shine!

 

You left out the real one:

 

On 9/7/2021 at 4:56 PM, Doc said:

  

 

As for what Terry's cut-off is, I don't know.  But I doubt $400M gets it done.

 

 

The one where the county/state doesn't give him what he wants. 

 

Anyway, your question is immaterial--there is no "other owner" of the Bills, nor one pending---but maybe he should consider calling in JBJ or "The Kelly Group" if he's so strapped that kicking in a billion will cut deep into the Pegula Family Lifestyle Funding Project's----oops!, I mean "PSE's" "viability".

 

My point all along is that he can afford to cover it all, so he can certainly be expected to cover the vast majority of it, as have other owners.  This isn't a bizarre or difficult point to grasp.  The local and state government should squeeze him hard....because, you know, he would never in your lifetime move the Bills out of Buffalo.