It's Time to Mandate Vaccines

[GaryPinC]

 

     

 

 

Keep in mind the scales are different, NY is 3 fold higher making FLA's data appear 3 times relatively larger.  But note NY's impressive lack of deaths/hospitalizations with their lockdown summer.  Also note FLA's 2020 winter surge was pretty much equal to NY when it should have been smaller because it was technically "off season".

 

 

 

[Sundancer]

1 hour ago, plenzmd1 said:

Uhmmm, Worldometers is NOT one of your beloved studies, it is REAL WORKD NUMBERS !!! 

 

It's two numbers plucked from among thousands. Go ahead and do California: I dare you. You didn't because it doesn't fit your preconceived notion. 

 

1 hour ago, plenzmd1 said:

So let me get this straight, in your world a study with 40k participants is more statically relevant than real world numbers with 39 million participants? Is that what you are arguing?

 

Show me the "study." You don't get it. 

 

1 hour ago, plenzmd1 said:

 

 

And seasonality? NYS cases are 25% higher than what they were last year on same date? Seasonality?

 

and if the Delta is twice as contagious even with the vax, and we giving same exact vax as before Delta.. why should we expect a different outcome. 
 

oh I know, cause the Fauci’s of the world say it’s just a booster needed. Same people who said no mask needed, same people who said vaxed folks  do not get or spread the virus, same people who said vax was 29 times more likely to keep you out of hospital. Same people who said masks will give 80% better chance not getting Covid just a few weeks ago… even better protection than the vax!  

 

Ah there it is: good show of objectivity. 

 

1 hour ago, plenzmd1 said:

Like I said, we all wanted to believe 12 months ago vax was all we needed to zero Covid. That’s never happening, this is now an endemic of the not previously infected, not the unvaxed. 
 

again, show me effectiveness sing empirical, real world numbers and not studies. I just have. 

 

 

Doing your stupid unscientific way, look at California. Then do Florida. Then do North Carolina. Then New Jersey. Then do USA. Then factor in for climate, Delta, age (critical, see Gary's post), boosters. Uh oh it's starting to sound like actual work and science! You better go back to soundbyte: Fauci something something, masks anger anger. 

[plenzmd1]

28 minutes ago, GaryPinC said:

 

If you want to claim any intellectual honesty, why don't you do apples to apples and compare the death rates of New York to Florida and to NY surge in 2020?  Because that makes a strong pro-vaccination case while at the same time contrasting DeSantis's hands-off approach with New York's strict lockdown measures.  Biased much?

sure thing

 

Total deaths per/million to date

 

NY..2970

Fla ..2847

 

Really no statistical difference. One could argue NY was hit last spring before so much was known,  and at least in the NYC area, mush denser living conditions. However, one could also argue Florida has a greater percentage of risk folks due to age....so not sure how to separate that out.

 

Florida had what looks like  its peak in August 21...412 deaths at its highest....not quite sure how to put a date range in there. Yesterday they had 7.

 

Florida at its peak last August with same policies but no vax had at its peak 214 deaths.

 

Hmm, and this year they had close to 62% fully vaxed.

 

NY last year on this date last year had 39 deaths...this year has 50...again with close to 70% fully vaxed. 

 

And , lets not forget we are always told hospitalizations lag cases, deaths lag hospitalizations. 

 

And cases are up 25% year over  year in NYS same date as last year.

 

all numbers courtesy of Worldmeters, easy as pie to go there and look.

 

To me, if anything this points to deaths and cases  being higher WITH vaccines. 

 

 

 Again, I am open to hearing why that is not the case..taking same population and numbers on same dates...

 

 

 

26 minutes ago, Sundancer said:

Not sure what you quantify as "very rarely" exactly but yes. I think there's some region now reporting in this way. I just saw this come up...but I don't remember where. 

 

This doesn't mean Covid is less of a killer. Again, deaths are WAY up for a reason. 

so deaths are WAY up with 70% vax, but god bless they are our only way out? Do you listen to yourself? 

[Sundancer]

5 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

 

so deaths are WAY up with 70% vax, but god bless they are our only way out? Do you listen to yourself? 

 

In response to his seeming point that dying WITH Covid is inflating Covid death statistics, that would not explain that deaths are WAY up overall. Not this month, but since March 2020. 

 

In fact what we are seeing is that as the vaccines arrived, total deaths almost dipped to pre-pandemic levels, then something (Delta? Seasonality? Vax waning? Unvaxxed + something else? Other?) pushed us back up again but not as bad as last fall. So, your point is kind of a dim-witted and lazy one, yet again.  

 

 

Source: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm

[GaryPinC]

And here's the total cases numbers  (same graphical scales) :

 

Note NY's impressive baselines compared to Florida's.  Not sure this justifies the excessive lockdowns in NY though

[plenzmd1]

5 minutes ago, GaryPinC said:

And here's the total cases numbers  (same graphical scales) :

 

Note NY's impressive baselines compared to Florida's.  Not sure this justifies the excessive lockdowns in NY though

Florida no dount had that massive spike this year...same rules as previous years, but had 60% vaxed this year

 

11 minutes ago, Sundancer said:

 

In response to his seeming point that dying WITH Covid is inflating Covid death statistics, that would not explain that deaths are WAY up overall. Not this month, but since March 2020. 

 

In fact what we are seeing is that as the vaccines arrived, total deaths almost dipped to pre-pandemic levels, then something (Delta? Seasonality? Vax waning? Unvaxxed + something else? Other?) pushed us back up again but not as bad as last fall. So, your point is kind of a dim-witted and lazy one, yet again.  

 

 

Source: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm

I missed that point of overall deaths up,you are correct

[GaryPinC]

And of course, one of the premier countries whose citizens mostly ignored covid via a very lagging vaccination rate and took little or no precautions until very recently, Russia:

 

 

 

Maybe they'll actually get some kind of control over it soon and at least chart an actual baseline.

[Big Blitz]

3 hours ago, 716er said:

 

The "Commie Executive" isn't requiring masks in places that require vax, so yes. That's the reason it was posted.

 

 

 

 

What a dupe you are.  Defending this lunacy.  

 

 

 

Mask mandate returns to Erie County, and tougher restrictions could be next

 

 

Commie Executive Mark Poloncarz announced Monday that all patrons and public-facing workers must wear face masks at indoor public places, effective at 6 a.m. Tuesday.

 

He said the order will be re-evaluated on Dec. 13, but Poloncarz warned that if the situation continues to worsen, he could impose tougher rules even before then.

 

Those would include requiring customers of businesses to prove they have been vaccinated before entering a restaurant, bar or entertainment venue.

 

Steps beyond that would be a return to capacity restrictions, followed by the last resort – lockdowns.

 

Poloncarz said the state of emergency never was lifted in the county, so he still has the authority to order these steps.

As of Saturday, 91% of all hospital beds in Erie County and 87% of intensive care beds were occupied.

 

"Case rates are important, but they're not the defining factor. The issues associated with hospitals are the defining factor," Poloncarz said during a virtual news conference.

 

But he set no firm numerical goals for any statistic that would allow the mask rule to be lifted. Nor did he set a number that would trigger harsher steps.

 

"It's going to be dependent on a bunch of variables," he said. "I don't want to say there's one specific thing that's a threshold that says, 'Aha, we go to Phase 2.' Now if, in the next five days, we see tremendous increases in hospitalizations as well as new cases, we theoretically could go to Phase 2 sooner than Dec. 13. But we want to give it enough time to analyze what's being done, assuming the public follows and wears a mask."

 

The public does not have to wear masks inside venues that have strict vaccine requirements for entrance, such as Highmark Stadium and KeyBank Center, according to the county Health Department.

 

Joe Jerge, owner of Mulberry's Italian Ristorante, said in an interview that he and the owners of three other well-known restaurants met with Poloncarz Sunday at Ilio DiPaolo's Restaurant in Blasdell, and talked Poloncarz out of tougher restrictions – for now.

 

"At this particular time if they shut us down again, it would probably spell the end for a lot of places," Jerge said.

 

Of those hospitalized, Poloncarz said 57% were unvaccinated, which means 43% were in the hospital despite having been vaccinated. 

 

https://buffalonews.com/news/local/mask-mandate-returns-to-erie-county-and-tougher-restrictions-could-be-next/article_0eba6bbe-4bb5-11ec-a005-4b32f29ac94b.html

 

 

This is my favorite part:

 

 

 

"He noted that the Buffalo Bills have the aid of police to enforce the vaccination mandate at Highmark Stadium, but restaurants wouldn't have that."

 

 

 

Communists.  

 

 

 

Tremendous increases!

 

There are high numbers!  Really scary!!

 

 

 

Nice metrics.  What were those again?  One man's whim?

Edited November 24, 2021 by Big Blitz

[Sundancer]

8 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

Florida no dount had that massive spike this year...same rules as previous years, but had 60% vaxed this year

 

 

Come on buddy. You didn't complete your work assignment. Do the states I mentioned for late November 2020 vs 2021. Then to the US. 

 

Or do those not fit your preconceived narrative? 

[GaryPinC]

27 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

sure thing

 

Total deaths per/million to date

 

NY..2970

Fla ..2847

 

Really no statistical difference. One could argue NY was hit last spring before so much was known,  and at least in the NYC area, mush denser living conditions. However, one could also argue Florida has a greater percentage of risk folks due to age....so not sure how to separate that out.

 

Florida had what looks like  its peak in August 21...412 deaths at its highest....not quite sure how to put a date range in there. Yesterday they had 7.

 

Florida at its peak last August with same policies but no vax had at its peak 214 deaths.

 

Hmm, and this year they had close to 62% fully vaxed.

 

NY last year on this date last year had 39 deaths...this year has 50...again with close to 70% fully vaxed. 

 

And , lets not forget we are always told hospitalizations lag cases, deaths lag hospitalizations. 

 

And cases are up 25% year over  year in NYS same date as last year.

 

all numbers courtesy of Worldmeters, easy as pie to go there and look.

 

To me, if anything this points to deaths and cases  being higher WITH vaccines. 

 

 

 Again, I am open to hearing why that is not the case..taking same population and numbers on same dates...

 

 

 

so deaths are WAY up with 70% vax, but god bless they are our only way out? Do you listen to yourself? 

 

Congratulations, how much of NY's numbers are due to that Cuomo debacle at the beginning?  Wonder how it looks if you take away both Florida and New York's initial surge?   But, in all fairness, data is incomplete until the winter surge is over

 

WRT your point about numbers, it's called the delta variant and it's also called lack of boosters, which the CDC has pretty much dropped the ball on IMO.  They should have rang the 6 month bell at the end of summer for everyone.

[Big Blitz]

Man.

 

Hillary Clinton sure did think this nonsense "upended your life."

 

 

 

 

YEAR THREE COVID!! WOOOO HOOOO!!!

[Sundancer]

1 minute ago, GaryPinC said:

 

Congratulations, how much of NY's numbers are due to that Cuomo debacle at the beginning?  Wonder how it looks if you take away both Florida and New York's initial surge?   But, in all fairness, data is incomplete until the winter surge is over

 

WRT your point about numbers, it's called the delta variant and it's also called lack of boosters, which the CDC has pretty much dropped the ball on IMO.  They should have rang the 6 month bell at the end of summer for everyone.

 

I don't blame anyone for March and April 2020. We had no idea what was happening at that point. Or to put it better, we did not pay attention to Korea and Italy, so we were willfully ignorant of what was happening. And piling on some blame, our federal biodefenses, which presumably were getting tens of millions in funding, were woefully unprepared.  

[Big Blitz]

Why is everything even open

 

 

People are dying and will continue to worthless masks and vaccines or not. 

 

Should be full lockdown if you truly care.  Would also slow down flu season. 

 

Shut down KeyBank Center for 6 months. 

 

Do it.   F... your freedoms and businesses.  

Edited November 24, 2021 by Big Blitz

[Sundancer]

 

By the way, Covid hospitalizations are about half what they were last year at this time currently on a much less steep incline, but, VACCINES DON'T WORK. 

 

 

VACCINES DON'T WORK is the work of plenzmd1, based on the his own studies published on a Bills Political board. 

[All_Pro_Bills]

16 minutes ago, Sundancer said:

Not sure what you quantify as "very rarely" exactly but yes. I think there's some region now reporting in this way. I just saw this come up...but I don't remember where. 

 

This doesn't mean Covid is less of a killer. Again, deaths are WAY up for a reason. 

 These are the states with elevated 7 day rolling average case rates per 100K & their 7 day rolling average deaths

 

Michigan - 109.57 cases per 100K, 92.0 deaths 7 day average 

Minnesota - 92.32, 30.47

Alaska - 81.04, 6

Montana - 70.03, 10, 5.82

North Dakota - 71.24, 6.02

South Dakota - 70.03, 4.36

Colorado - 77.56, 42.77

New Mexico - 70.99, 10.21

Wisconsin - 71.07, 27.92

 

[Sundancer]

8 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

 These are the states with elevated 7 day rolling average case rates per 100K & their 7 day rolling average deaths

 

Michigan - 109.57 cases per 100K, 92.0 deaths 7 day average 

Minnesota - 92.32, 30.47

Alaska - 81.04, 6

Montana - 70.03, 10, 5.82

North Dakota - 71.24, 6.02

South Dakota - 70.03, 4.36

Colorado - 77.56, 42.77

New Mexico - 70.99, 10.21

Wisconsin - 71.07, 27.92

 

 

I'm sure the Arbery verdict is about to take the wind out of the sails of this discussion for the day. Genuinely asking: What are you trying to show me here? 

[Sundancer]

Wierd stat but encouraging. Certainly how I feel. I am annoyed by, but respectful of, mask requests at shop doors but otherwise doing nothing differently. 

 

 

 

[ALF]

With the number of those vaccinated getting covid and hospitalized , critical to get a booster . 

[Big Blitz]

Anti Mandate Freedom loving Americans: 

 

"The government is out of control with mandates and protocols.  We did our jobs it's been 2 f...ing years and 75% of us are vaxxed why are we still in masks and why are they mandating anything at this point?  Isolating people still....still sending people home despite being vaccinated.  This is unsustainable and illogical and won't end."

 

 

 

Sundancer:

 

"Here is some data on the effectiveness of vaccines."

[All_Pro_Bills]

44 minutes ago, Sundancer said:

 

I'm sure the Arbery verdict is about to take the wind out of the sails of this discussion for the day. Genuinely asking: What are you trying to show me here? 

You mentioned numbers were up but no sure wheres so I highlighted the elevated States..