Roundybout Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 4 minutes ago, AlBUNDY4TDS said: But can you see how sometimes tariffs are necessary? The negative effects overwhelm the “positive” perception of protecting American jobs Just now, AlBUNDY4TDS said: ***** China! We already have govt incentives for solar. But not the means to produce at the same scale they can! Just now, AlBUNDY4TDS said: ***** China! We already have govt incentives for solar. But not the means to produce at the same scale they can! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlBUNDY4TDS Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 12 minutes ago, Roundybout said: The negative effects overwhelm the “positive” perception of protecting American jobs But not the means to produce at the same scale they can! But not the means to produce at the same scale they can! Once again ***** China. They are the reason the economy is bad around the world due to their lab leaked Covid. But their economy is in shambles, like they deserve. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roundybout Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 5 minutes ago, AlBUNDY4TDS said: Once again ***** China. They are the reason the economy is bad around the world due to their lab leaked Covid. But their economy is in shambles, like they deserve. Just saw this actually. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 14 minutes ago, Roundybout said: I know, but at the same time China is at LEAST 10 years ahead of us on solar technology (panel production, conductor, transfer, etc). Increasing tariffs on these things would set our own utility solar market back years. You have to weigh the bad with the good I can't believe you named this industry. I really talk myself out of posting, but I was going to use this as an example, just based on my experience. I was sitting next to a guy on an airplane who was the CEO of some company, and we were talking about this China law that if you were going to build a production factory there, you had to provide the Chinese gov detailed information on process and everything else related to production. That is their way, among others, of stealing R&D info, and avoiding copyright stuff. Anyway, he told me that there was a California solar company who had decided to produce there, and submitted the info. Detailed info. In less than a year, there was a Chinese factory spooled up in the same city they wanted to produce in, and this company was producing the exact same solar panels they had provided information on. Ever been to the Pearly Market, or Silk Market in Beijing? Those are two huge markets that do nothing but sell knocked off US and European goods. No patent or copyright compliance. It's a joke. Hell, I, wearing prescription sunglasses I bought there that are direct copies of something in the US that would sell for $150+. Got them for $23, delivered to the hotel. Once, while visiting the Silk Market, I was with a guy who was looking into a Tesla purchase. Across the street from the Silk Market is a Beijing Tesla dealership. The prices were 75% higher than you could get one for in the US, solely based on Chinese tariffs. They have run a rigged game for years, all designed to undercut US and European labor. Total scam. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlBUNDY4TDS Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 4 minutes ago, Roundybout said: Just saw this actually. That's a positive! 2 minutes ago, sherpa said: I can't believe you named this industry. I really talk myself out of posting, but I was going to use this as an example, just based on my experience. I was sitting next to a guy on an airplane who was the CEO of some company, and we were talking about this China law that if you were going to build a production factory there, you had to provide the Chinese gov detailed information on process and everything else related to production. That is their way, among others, of stealing R&D info, and avoiding copyright stuff. Anyway, he told me that there was a California solar company who had decided to produce there, and submitted the info. Detailed info. In less than a year, there was a Chinese factory spooled up in the same city they wanted to produce in, and this company was producing the exact same solar panels they had provided information on. Ever been to the Pearly Market, or Silk Market in Beijing? Those are two huge markets that do nothing but sell knocked off US and European goods. No patent or copyright compliance. It's a joke. Hell, I, wearing prescription sunglasses I bought there that are direct copies of something in the US that would sell for $150+. Got them for $23, delivered to the hotel. Once, while visiting the Silk Market, I was with a guy who was looking into a Tesla purchase. Across the street from the Silk Market is a Beijing Tesla dealership. The prices were 75% higher than you could get one for in the US, solely based on Chinese tariffs. They have run a rigged game for years, all designed to undercut US and European labor. Total scam. Reverse engineering and counterfeiting is huge in china. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daz28 Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 10 minutes ago, AlBUNDY4TDS said: Once again ***** China. They are the reason the economy is bad around the world due to their lab leaked Covid. But their economy is in shambles, like they deserve. There ya go champ, let it all out. Maybe you're not 100% Jimmy Carter Chamberlain. **** our enemies. Now if I can just get you to stop letting them retaliate, and harm American soldiers, we'll be getting somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlBUNDY4TDS Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 1 minute ago, daz28 said: There ya go champ, let it all out. Maybe you're not 100% Jimmy Carter Chamberlain. **** our enemies. Now if I can just get you to stop letting them retaliate, and harm American soldiers, we'll be getting somewhere. I had no idea I had so much power and influence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daz28 Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 5 minutes ago, sherpa said: I can't believe you named this industry. I really talk myself out of posting, but I was going to use this as an example, just based on my experience. I was sitting next to a guy on an airplane who was the CEO of some company, and we were talking about this China law that if you were going to build a production factory there, you had to provide the Chinese gov detailed information on process and everything else related to production. That is their way, among others, of stealing R&D info, and avoiding copyright stuff. Anyway, he told me that there was a California solar company who had decided to produce there, and submitted the info. Detailed info. In less than a year, there was a Chinese factory spooled up in the same city they wanted to produce in, and this company was producing the exact same solar panels they had provided information on. Ever been to the Pearly Market, or Silk Market in Beijing? Those are two huge markets that do nothing but sell knocked off US and European goods. No patent or copyright compliance. It's a joke. Hell, I, wearing prescription sunglasses I bought there that are direct copies of something in the US that would sell for $150+. Got them for $23, delivered to the hotel. Once, while visiting the Silk Market, I was with a guy who was looking into a Tesla purchase. Across the street from the Silk Market is a Beijing Tesla dealership. The prices were 75% higher than you could get one for in the US, solely based on Chinese tariffs. They have run a rigged game for years, all designed to undercut US and European labor. Total scam. it's a scam for sure, but it's part of the world economic game. All we can control is our response to it, and soft leaders, who are in the pockets of the oligarchy isn't a good one. Step one to actually making America great again would be getting OUR government back. Getting rid of citizens united and the Washington lobby would be a great first start to achieve that goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 1 minute ago, daz28 said: it's a scam for sure, but it's part of the world economic game. All we can control is our response to it, and soft leaders, who are in the pockets of the oligarchy isn't a good one. Step one to actually making America great again would be getting OUR government back. Getting rid of citizens united and the Washington lobby would be a great first start to achieve that goal. Perhaps, but the first response is tariffs. Nobody on earth deserves tariffs on their goods more than China. It is simply good policy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daz28 Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 9 minutes ago, AlBUNDY4TDS said: I had no idea I had so much power and influence. You have openly used your voice(your influence) to support attacks on Americans by terrorist, because of some retaliation doctrine you're holding onto. You did this on a public forum(your power). 11 minutes ago, sherpa said: Perhaps, but the first response is tariffs. Nobody on earth deserves tariffs on their goods more than China. It is simply good policy. The tariffs are a mixed bag of good and bad. Like most things, it's more complex than the average internet poster understands. That's not meant to be some kind of insult to you personally, btw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlBUNDY4TDS Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 9 minutes ago, daz28 said: You have openly used your voice(your influence) to support attacks on Americans by terrorist, because of some retaliation doctrine you're holding onto. You did this on a public forum(your power). The tariffs are a mixed bag of good and bad. Like most things, it's more complex than the average internet poster understands. That's not meant to be some kind of insult to you personally, btw Me not wanting to spiral into another war in the middle east is me supporting terrorists attacks? Got it! Continue huffing glue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daz28 Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 3 minutes ago, AlBUNDY4TDS said: Me not wanting to spiral into another war in the middle east is me supporting terrorists attacks? Got it! Continue huffing glue. Ok Chamberlain. Peace in our time. Wave that treaty around, bud. You terrorize my country or my family, and I'm coming for you. Spirals be damned. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlBUNDY4TDS Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 16 minutes ago, daz28 said: Ok Chamberlain. Peace in our time. Wave that treaty around, bud. You terrorize my country or my family, and I'm coming for you. Spirals be damned. Wtf are u talking about? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daz28 Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 (edited) 9 minutes ago, AlBUNDY4TDS said: Wtf are u talking about? History, and people who are ignorant of it, willfully or not. Tibs had no problem understanding the gist of it. Edited February 8 by daz28 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 (edited) 49 minutes ago, daz28 said: The tariffs are a mixed bag of good and bad. Like most things, it's more complex than the average internet poster understands. That's not meant to be some kind of insult to you personally, btw I have run a business in South America, importing to the US. I am very familiar with tariffs, the strategy and tactics of Mercosur, less so with China , but enough to know they absolutely deserve tariffs, as I am very familiar with the history of Israel, a suggestion that you claimed I might not be aware of. Perhaps less didactic posts towards the people here who who might be a bit more informed than, to use your phrase, "the average internet poster." People here aren't stupid, and might have done a lot of stuff. Edited February 8 by sherpa 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlBUNDY4TDS Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 11 minutes ago, daz28 said: History, and people who are ignorant of it, willfully or not. Tibs had no problem understanding the gist of it. Tibs is your benchmark? Hahaha 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 3 minutes ago, sherpa said: I have run a business in South America, importing to the US. I am very familiar with tariffs, the strategy and tactics of Mercosur, less so with China , but enough to know they absolutely deserve tariffs, as I am very familiar with the history of Israel, a suggestion that you claimed I might be aware of. Perhaps less didactic posts towards the people here who who might be a bit more informed than, to use your phrase, "the average internet poster." People here aren't stupid, and might have done a lot of stuff. Tariffs to what end? Then they put more on us, we lose markets, prices rise and consumers have fewer choices. Tariffs are crude measure and free trade works to improve the general prosperity of all. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Callahan Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daz28 Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 2 minutes ago, sherpa said: I have run a business in South America, importing to the US. I am very familiar with tariffs, the strategy and tactics of Mercosur, less so with China , but enough to know they absolutely deserve tariffs, as I am very familiar with the history of Israel, a suggestion that you claimed I might not be aware of. Perhaps less didactic posts towards the people here who who might be a bit more informed than, to use your phrase, "the average internet poster." People here aren't stupid, and might have done a lot of stuff. Like I said, it wasn't an insult, but you chose to take it that way, so that's on you. Anyways, how it affects one industry, that you're familiar with, doesn't mean you understand how it affects thousands of other industries. That's why I said it's a complex mixed bag. I'm not claiming to know much about it myself. In fact, kind of admitting I don't know much other than some people say it hurt their business, while others have said it helped. I can't see why them lying about it would benefit them 5 minutes ago, AlBUNDY4TDS said: Tibs is your benchmark? Hahaha I didn't give him anymore credit than that he can read and comprehend text. I'll bet if he tried really hard, he could read and understand, but pretend not to, when it's convenient for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlBUNDY4TDS Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 16 minutes ago, daz28 said: Like I said, it wasn't an insult, but you chose to take it that way, so that's on you. Anyways, how it affects one industry, that you're familiar with, doesn't mean you understand how it affects thousands of other industries. That's why I said it's a complex mixed bag. I'm not claiming to know much about it myself. In fact, kind of admitting I don't know much other than some people say it hurt their business, while others have said it helped. I can't see why them lying about it would benefit them I didn't give him anymore credit than that he can read and comprehend text. I'll bet if he tried really hard, he could read and understand, but pretend not to, when it's convenient for him. Good for u 👏 👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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