SoCal Deek Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 1 minute ago, 716er said: Wouldn't you agree working the phones to sway people to the side of the insurrectionists looking to kill the VP Pence during the insurrection is a little different than working the phones to see if he's got votes? I see what you are saying but to compare the two as equal is a stretch. Where did I say that? If the President is asking for support of his request for an investigation into election fraud, that’s not supporting insurrection. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daz28 Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 2 minutes ago, 716er said: Wouldn't you agree working the phones to sway people to the side of the insurrectionists looking to kill the VP Pence during the insurrection is a little different than working the phones to see if he's got votes? I see what you are saying but to compare the two as equal is a stretch. Hey, gotta keep them phones working, I mean everybody dies sometime, right????????????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
716er Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 Just now, SoCal Deek said: Where did I say that? If the President is asking for support of his request for an investigation into election fraud, that’s not supporting insurrection. The request for an investigation into election fraud is a fabrication and the reason for the ongoing insurrection that happens during the phone call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daz28 Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 Meanwhile in Oregon: In the view of the Oregon Republican Party, what transpired on January 6 was not an insurrection and the rioters who stormed the U.S. Capitol were not supporters of Donald Trump. Rather, the uprising that the world witnessed that day was a “false flag.” Its aim, according to the party, was to discredit Trump and “advance the Democrat goal of seizing total power, in a frightening parallel to the February 1933 burning of the German Reichstag.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 (edited) Anyone who can’t see the political theatre side to all this is blind. Democrats don’t care about anything other than a side show as many have pointed out to fragment the opposition party and consolidate power. It’s not about right and wrong. It’s about keeping the boogey man front and center of their base as long as possible and distract the moderates from some of the more leftist policy (if your a moderate Democrat, or just moderate have a look at the covid relief package details and some EOs) they are pushing in the background which are not hitting press headlines. Their other agenda is to brand all non democrats as insurrectionist supporters and fascists. that said, the legal arguments/smoking gun they believe they have, as I understand, is based on an argument “if not but for” orange scourges ridiculous behavior, repeated lies and fallacious claims, and encouraging a crowd to “go to the capital” and “fight like hell or lose your country” the protest would not have turned into a violent raid of the capital. (It’s a fact All those things happened, the legal challenge is to PROVE that is actually what led to the crazies rioting or was it happening anyway) If he didn’t do any of those things (which he did for month btw), would it have still happened? I feel like most rational people believe it would not have. Any Republican who says it certainly still would have happened is flat out lying. I expect the thing that will give enough doubt to hide behind for some, is nuisances in some of the inflammatory speech relative to the timeline, ones own wacko conspiracy belief, disgusting party lines, and of course if it’s argued successfully that no specific actual words to ‘raid the capital’ or ‘commit acts of violence’... meant that it couldn’t have been inferred. I wish they would have unanimously censured him so he could never reasonably run again, and then let civil and corruption lawsuits and charges etc dismantle his sad remaining miserable tweetless life. That would be a step towards recovering the divide... but of course neither party really wants that. Edited February 10, 2021 by Over 29 years of fanhood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daz28 Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 3 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: Where did I say that? If the President is asking for support of his request for an investigation into election fraud, that’s not supporting insurrection. People were literally being killed at that exact moment. Seriously dude, c'mon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
716er Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: Anyone who can’t see the political theatre side to all this is blind. Democrats don’t care about anything other than a side show as many have pointed out to fragment the opposition party and consolidate power. It’s not about right and wrong. It’s about keeping the boogey man front and center of their base as long as possible and distract the moderates from some of the more leftist policy (if your a moderate Democrat, or just moderate have a look at the covid relief package details and some EOs) they are pushing in the background which are not hitting press headlines. Their other agenda is to brand all non democrats as insurrectionist supporters and fascists. This is a wild accusation. What evidence points to this, especially on a national level? Even the impeachment managers have each gone out of their way to say that not everyone at the capitol is to blame and the ones who enflamed the rhetoric and invaded the capitol are. Edited February 10, 2021 by 716er 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daz28 Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 I'm still waiting for the video of Trump physically dragging them all into the Capital. Until then, this is all just political theater. 😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snafu Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 19 minutes ago, daz28 said: People pulling support from a party, because they don't like the way their party handles their candidate is much different than a member of ones own party coercing them with their political clout to do their bidding. What? Bernie Bros pulled their support in 2016 because the D party rigged the primaries in favor of Clinton. Sorry, Bernie, no nomination for you, we've got our candidate with political clout and the party decisionmakers are behind her -- not you. Then in 2020, they pulled their support because Warren stayed in the race one day too long, killing Bernie's chances and reviving Biden's nearly dead campaign. Sorry, again, Bernie, we've got our candidate with political clout and the party decisionmakers are behind him -- not you. That's coercion via political clout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scraps Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 1 hour ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: 1. Why was the permit originally denied? 2. Why did they stop payments to the organizers? It would be a guess on my part but since the Capitol was being prepared for the inauguration, I doubt they wanted any large gatherings there. As for stopping payments, that is just what Trump does. He has a long history of welching on deals. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daz28 Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 1 minute ago, snafu said: What? Bernie Bros pulled their support in 2016 because the D party rigged the primaries in favor of Clinton. Sorry, Bernie, no nomination for you, we've got our candidate with political clout and the party decisionmakers are behind her -- not you. Then in 2020, they pulled their support because Warren stayed in the race one day too long, killing Bernie's chances and reviving Biden's nearly dead campaign. Sorry, again, Bernie, we've got our candidate with political clout and the party decisionmakers are behind him -- not you. That's coercion via political clout. I won't argue Bernie got screwed, probably more than once, but it's still not the same While people were dying, and people were calling their loved ones thinking it may be the last time they talk, Trump was calling to see if the insurrection was getting anyone to change their votes. Even if you don't believe he's responsible for this, he is undeniably a complete and utter POS of the highest magnitude. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 (edited) 20 minutes ago, 716er said: This is a wild accusation. What evidence points to this, especially on a national level? Even the impeachment managers have each gone out of their way to say that not everyone at the capitol is to blame and the ones who enflamed the rhetoric and invaded the capitol are. Just watch and wait... I’m extrapolating, maybe... but As a really disgusted agnostic (ever since I lived abroad 20 years ago and saw the us from the outside) I watch the mouthpieces from both sides and see the spin. Impeachment managers are by most impartial accounts acting professionally and just trying to prosecute the case, it’s not them. they don’t form the national agenda or narrative at large. Watch for the rhetoric as it emerges from the party leaders, and their sides pandering media. Heck half the board here thinks anyone who reluctantly chose the deplorable R ticket because they can’t stand the Democratic policies even more are fascists etc. Republicans think Democrats who voted for Biden want communism.. both parties political debate, (as seen with many here who refuse to try and educate them selves, see the issues through the spin and propaganda machine) it is simply if you have a different opinion than mine you are scum. Edited February 10, 2021 by Over 29 years of fanhood 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snafu Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 7 minutes ago, daz28 said: I won't argue Bernie got screwed, probably more than once, but it's still not the same While people were dying, and people were calling their loved ones thinking it may be the last time they talk, Trump was calling to see if the insurrection was getting anyone to change their votes. Even if you don't believe he's responsible for this, he is undeniably a complete and utter POS of the highest magnitude. I've already said my peace about Trump in this thread. He's his own worst enemy and we're witnessing the impeachment because of him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 14 hours ago, Doc Brown said: It also paints Republican Senators who vote to acquit him as condoning the riots. The more video and images they show the worse it's going to look. That is the whole point to this. Get Republican Senators to stand up and vote not to convict Trump. They already got the Republican Representatives to stand up and vote against impeachment. Now they can use this in campaign attack ads against them in 2022. Trump is the greatest money raising tool for Democrats since Nest Gingrich. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daz28 Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 1 minute ago, snafu said: I've already said my peace about Trump in this thread. He's his own worst enemy and we're witnessing the impeachment because of him. The second part wasn't meant for you. It merged it there 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snafu Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 Just now, reddogblitz said: That is the whole point to this. Get Republican Senators to stand up and vote not to convict Trump. They already got the Republican Representatives to stand up and vote against impeachment. Now they can use this in campaign attack ads against them in 2022. Trump is the greatest money raising tool for Democrats since Nest Gingrich. Completely agree. D's can take it further, too, and claim that all the Senators who vote to acquit are domestic terrorists. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daz28 Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 3 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: Just watch and wait... I’m extrapolating, maybe... but As a really disgusted agnostic (ever since I lived abroad 20 years ago and saw the us from the outside) I watch the mouthpieces from both sides and see the spin. Impeachment managers are by most impartial accounts acting professionally and just trying to prosecute the case, it’s not them. they don’t form the national agenda or narrative at large. Watch for the rhetoric as it emerges from the party leaders, and their sides pandering media. Heck half the board here thinks anyone who reluctantly chose the deplorable R ticket because they can’t stand the Democratic policies even more are fascists etc. Republicans think Democrats who voted for Biden want communism.. both parties political debate, (as seen with many here who refuse to try and educate them selves, see the issues through the spin and propaganda machine) it is simply if you have a different opinion than mine you are scum. Pretty much all American politicians are scum. You kinda have to choose which slimepit you want to endorse. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snafu Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 Just now, daz28 said: Pretty much all American politicians are scum. You kinda have to choose which slimepit you want to endorse. So...we need to throw them all out and replace them? Actually, I agree with you that the political class shouldn't be a separate or elevated class -- but that's the way they treat themselves. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 12 minutes ago, snafu said: What? Bernie Bros pulled their support in 2016 because the D party rigged the primaries in favor of Clinton. Sorry, Bernie, no nomination for you, we've got our candidate with political clout and the party decisionmakers are behind her -- not you. Then in 2020, they pulled their support because Warren stayed in the race one day too long, killing Bernie's chances and reviving Biden's nearly dead campaign. Sorry, again, Bernie, we've got our candidate with political clout and the party decisionmakers are behind him -- not you. That's coercion via political clout. It really is incredible how sleazy, contentious and hateful the primaries are, then after they get done tearing each other apart, stabbing each other in the back, undercutting and attacking each other, they reunite with big glorious smiles. What a gross business. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 1 minute ago, snafu said: So...we need to throw them all out and replace them? Actually, I agree with you that the political class shouldn't be a separate or elevated class -- but that's the way they treat themselves. That's why we need term limits. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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