Fraud or no fraud? that is the question...

[WEATHER DOT COM]

Assumptions are often misleading, hence the scientific method.

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

5 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

The protestors should have distanced more.  They were outside and the ones I watched the participants were masked.  So not perfect to be sure.  Better than inside with no masks.

 

Data means something.  Guesses don’t.

Integrity means something as well.  
 

Have a good day. 

[oldmanfan]

18 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

Integrity means something as well.  
 

Have a good day. 

Indeed.  I’m comfortable in that regard.  And you?

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

6 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Indeed.  I’m comfortable in that regard.  And you?

100% comfortable.  

[DrDawkinstein]

The Republicans are alleging fraud in areas where Dominion election machines were used, like Arizona and Georgia. Arizona and Georgia both performed audits of their machines, and everything came back clean.

 

The election results in Georgia and Arizona also, coincidentally, were damn near exact matches to all of the polls that were released, showing Biden with a narrow lead, and ALSO matched the senate races, again, almost exactly. Multiple races in multiple states, all dead nuts accurate.

 

All of the investigations also revealed that Dominion isn't owned or operated by the Democrats (or Hugo Chavez).

 

But Dominion isn't the only election machine manufacturer. They aren't even the biggest. That distinction goes to ES&S. ES&S has had a littany of issues over the years, and their former CEO quit to run for congress in a state that using his machines. He went from polling way down before the race, to winning by 17%.

 

Gee, where have we seen that before?

 

Maybe Maine, where Susan Collins spent the entire last year losing in every poll, by about 8-10%. She won her race by 9%. Roughly a 17% flip.

 

Who's machines handle all of the ballots in Maine, including the mail in? ES&S. And since the race is soooo far apart, there will never be an audit of the equipment.

 

But it's just like, one race, right?

 

No. Of course not. This year, South Carolina spent $51 million on new ES&S equipment. Lindsay Graham went from polling down 1-2%, to winning by 10%.

 

In Iowa, Jodi Ernst went from polling down around 3 points in nearly every poll, to winning by 6.5%. Just shy of a ten point swing.

 

In Montana, Daines was within a few points, generally even, with his competitor Bullock. Daines won his race 55-45, another magical 10 point swing for the Republicans.

 

Every senate race, where ES&S machines were used, we had crazy swings like this, and the results of every ES&S senate race went for the Republicans by so much, that no recount or audit will ever be performed.

 

Back in Georgia, in the 2018 gubernatorial race, there was quite a bit of tom*****ery too. Kemp "won" a pretty disputed race against the Democrat Stacey Abrams. Part of the issues revolving around the race, were that not only was Kemp overseeing his own election, but he had ties to the company who's equipment they were using. ES&S. The equipment ended up not having any paper back ups, and the results were all erased, so no audit. Oops. For this election, they went with Dominion, after Democrats blocked attempts to purchase more ES&S equipment.

 

It's not like any of this is a huge secret. ES&S has been getting eyeballed since their tom*****ery in Florida, during the 2000 race. They weren't the hanging chads, they were the ones that "mistakenly" gave Bush a bunch of votes in a county, allowing him to call himself the winner, helping to justify his pushes in court.

 

Disturbing revelations have been surfacing about ES&S for a while now. Stuff like selling machines that have remote access enabled, allowing anyone from anywhere to access the devices and alter data and configurations as they see fit.

 

But we will NEVER hear a Republican say they want those machines looked at closely.

 

The information is out there, readily available, but Dems are lousy at going on the offensive

[shoshin]

46 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

The Republicans are alleging fraud in areas where Dominion election machines were used, like Arizona and Georgia. Arizona and Georgia both performed audits of their machines, and everything came back clean.

 

The election results in Georgia and Arizona also, coincidentally, were damn near exact matches to all of the polls that were released, showing Biden with a narrow lead, and ALSO matched the senate races, again, almost exactly. Multiple races in multiple states, all dead nuts accurate.

 

All of the investigations also revealed that Dominion isn't owned or operated by the Democrats (or Hugo Chavez).

 

But Dominion isn't the only election machine manufacturer. They aren't even the biggest. That distinction goes to ES&S. ES&S has had a littany of issues over the years, and their former CEO quit to run for congress in a state that using his machines. He went from polling way down before the race, to winning by 17%.

 

Gee, where have we seen that before?

 

Maybe Maine, where Susan Collins spent the entire last year losing in every poll, by about 8-10%. She won her race by 9%. Roughly a 17% flip.

 

Who's machines handle all of the ballots in Maine, including the mail in? ES&S. And since the race is soooo far apart, there will never be an audit of the equipment.

 

But it's just like, one race, right?

 

No. Of course not. This year, South Carolina spent $51 million on new ES&S equipment. Lindsay Graham went from polling down 1-2%, to winning by 10%.

 

In Iowa, Jodi Ernst went from polling down around 3 points in nearly every poll, to winning by 6.5%. Just shy of a ten point swing.

 

In Montana, Daines was within a few points, generally even, with his competitor Bullock. Daines won his race 55-45, another magical 10 point swing for the Republicans.

 

Every senate race, where ES&S machines were used, we had crazy swings like this, and the results of every ES&S senate race went for the Republicans by so much, that no recount or audit will ever be performed.

 

Back in Georgia, in the 2018 gubernatorial race, there was quite a bit of tom*****ery too. Kemp "won" a pretty disputed race against the Democrat Stacey Abrams. Part of the issues revolving around the race, were that not only was Kemp overseeing his own election, but he had ties to the company who's equipment they were using. ES&S. The equipment ended up not having any paper back ups, and the results were all erased, so no audit. Oops. For this election, they went with Dominion, after Democrats blocked attempts to purchase more ES&S equipment.

 

It's not like any of this is a huge secret. ES&S has been getting eyeballed since their tom*****ery in Florida, during the 2000 race. They weren't the hanging chads, they were the ones that "mistakenly" gave Bush a bunch of votes in a county, allowing him to call himself the winner, helping to justify his pushes in court.

 

Disturbing revelations have been surfacing about ES&S for a while now. Stuff like selling machines that have remote access enabled, allowing anyone from anywhere to access the devices and alter data and configurations as they see fit.

 

But we will NEVER hear a Republican say they want those machines looked at closely.

 

The information is out there, readily available, but Dems are lousy at going on the offensive

Taking the other side on stupid conspiracies is no way to go through life son. 

Edited December 10, 2020 by shoshin

[DrDawkinstein]

2 minutes ago, shoshin said:

Taking the other side on stupid conspiracies is no way to go through live son. 

 

It's not. It's asking why arent Republicans, and even posters here, concerned about those machines or elections if this truly is about the bigger picture like they claim.

[shoshin]

9 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

It's not. It's asking why arent Republicans, and even posters here, concerned about those machines or elections if this truly is about the bigger picture like they claim.

It’s all baseless. Just like Dems not admitting the chasms in Russiagate accusations. 

[transplantbillsfan]

9 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

The Republicans are alleging fraud in areas where Dominion election machines were used, like Arizona and Georgia. Arizona and Georgia both performed audits of their machines, and everything came back clean.

 

The election results in Georgia and Arizona also, coincidentally, were damn near exact matches to all of the polls that were released, showing Biden with a narrow lead, and ALSO matched the senate races, again, almost exactly. Multiple races in multiple states, all dead nuts accurate.

 

All of the investigations also revealed that Dominion isn't owned or operated by the Democrats (or Hugo Chavez).

 

But Dominion isn't the only election machine manufacturer. They aren't even the biggest. That distinction goes to ES&S. ES&S has had a littany of issues over the years, and their former CEO quit to run for congress in a state that using his machines. He went from polling way down before the race, to winning by 17%.

 

Gee, where have we seen that before?

 

Maybe Maine, where Susan Collins spent the entire last year losing in every poll, by about 8-10%. She won her race by 9%. Roughly a 17% flip.

 

Who's machines handle all of the ballots in Maine, including the mail in? ES&S. And since the race is soooo far apart, there will never be an audit of the equipment.

 

But it's just like, one race, right?

 

No. Of course not. This year, South Carolina spent $51 million on new ES&S equipment. Lindsay Graham went from polling down 1-2%, to winning by 10%.

 

In Iowa, Jodi Ernst went from polling down around 3 points in nearly every poll, to winning by 6.5%. Just shy of a ten point swing.

 

In Montana, Daines was within a few points, generally even, with his competitor Bullock. Daines won his race 55-45, another magical 10 point swing for the Republicans.

 

Every senate race, where ES&S machines were used, we had crazy swings like this, and the results of every ES&S senate race went for the Republicans by so much, that no recount or audit will ever be performed.

 

Back in Georgia, in the 2018 gubernatorial race, there was quite a bit of tom*****ery too. Kemp "won" a pretty disputed race against the Democrat Stacey Abrams. Part of the issues revolving around the race, were that not only was Kemp overseeing his own election, but he had ties to the company who's equipment they were using. ES&S. The equipment ended up not having any paper back ups, and the results were all erased, so no audit. Oops. For this election, they went with Dominion, after Democrats blocked attempts to purchase more ES&S equipment.

 

It's not like any of this is a huge secret. ES&S has been getting eyeballed since their tom*****ery in Florida, during the 2000 race. They weren't the hanging chads, they were the ones that "mistakenly" gave Bush a bunch of votes in a county, allowing him to call himself the winner, helping to justify his pushes in court.

 

Disturbing revelations have been surfacing about ES&S for a while now. Stuff like selling machines that have remote access enabled, allowing anyone from anywhere to access the devices and alter data and configurations as they see fit.

 

But we will NEVER hear a Republican say they want those machines looked at closely.

 

The information is out there, readily available, but Dems are lousy at going on the offensive

 

My problem with the Democratic party has been the mentality that's summed up in a famous phrase from one of its heroes:

 

"When they go low, we go high."

 

I love Michelle Obama and actually would have loved to see her run for political office, but no.  The Democrats need to stop bringing knives to these gunfights.  The issue with the Democratic party as the "big tent" party is getting everyone to coalesce and act as one entity.  Since the Republican Party is just a bunch of rich white dudes, it's much easier to get them to go with the gameplan.

 

But yeah, this push "there was fraud that only affected the Republican candidate negatively!!!" was just silly.

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

10 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

The Republicans are alleging fraud in areas where Dominion election machines were used, like Arizona and Georgia. Arizona and Georgia both performed audits of their machines, and everything came back clean.

 

The election results in Georgia and Arizona also, coincidentally, were damn near exact matches to all of the polls that were released, showing Biden with a narrow lead, and ALSO matched the senate races, again, almost exactly. Multiple races in multiple states, all dead nuts accurate.

 

All of the investigations also revealed that Dominion isn't owned or operated by the Democrats (or Hugo Chavez).

 

But Dominion isn't the only election machine manufacturer. They aren't even the biggest. That distinction goes to ES&S. ES&S has had a littany of issues over the years, and their former CEO quit to run for congress in a state that using his machines. He went from polling way down before the race, to winning by 17%.

 

Gee, where have we seen that before?

 

Maybe Maine, where Susan Collins spent the entire last year losing in every poll, by about 8-10%. She won her race by 9%. Roughly a 17% flip.

 

Who's machines handle all of the ballots in Maine, including the mail in? ES&S. And since the race is soooo far apart, there will never be an audit of the equipment.

 

But it's just like, one race, right?

 

No. Of course not. This year, South Carolina spent $51 million on new ES&S equipment. Lindsay Graham went from polling down 1-2%, to winning by 10%.

 

In Iowa, Jodi Ernst went from polling down around 3 points in nearly every poll, to winning by 6.5%. Just shy of a ten point swing.

 

In Montana, Daines was within a few points, generally even, with his competitor Bullock. Daines won his race 55-45, another magical 10 point swing for the Republicans.

 

Every senate race, where ES&S machines were used, we had crazy swings like this, and the results of every ES&S senate race went for the Republicans by so much, that no recount or audit will ever be performed.

 

Back in Georgia, in the 2018 gubernatorial race, there was quite a bit of tom*****ery too. Kemp "won" a pretty disputed race against the Democrat Stacey Abrams. Part of the issues revolving around the race, were that not only was Kemp overseeing his own election, but he had ties to the company who's equipment they were using. ES&S. The equipment ended up not having any paper back ups, and the results were all erased, so no audit. Oops. For this election, they went with Dominion, after Democrats blocked attempts to purchase more ES&S equipment.

 

It's not like any of this is a huge secret. ES&S has been getting eyeballed since their tom*****ery in Florida, during the 2000 race. They weren't the hanging chads, they were the ones that "mistakenly" gave Bush a bunch of votes in a county, allowing him to call himself the winner, helping to justify his pushes in court.

 

Disturbing revelations have been surfacing about ES&S for a while now. Stuff like selling machines that have remote access enabled, allowing anyone from anywhere to access the devices and alter data and configurations as they see fit.

 

But we will NEVER hear a Republican say they want those machines looked at closely.

 

The information is out there, readily available, but Dems are lousy at going on the offensive

Wait...you’re arguing that there’s “tomfoolery”, alleging election fraud and complaining about the machines and software from various venders?

 

I’m a Republican and I’m hear to say :  Look at all those machines closely.  
 

(And you’re nutso cookoo if you think the Dems don’t know how to go on the offensive!)
 

 

[Scraps]

2 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

Wait...you’re arguing that there’s “tomfoolery”, alleging election fraud and complaining about the machines and software from various venders?

 

I’m a Republican and I’m hear to say :  Look at all those machines closely.  
 

(And you’re nutso cookoo if you think the Dems don’t know how to go on the offensive!)

 

Hand recounts of paper ballots verified the results of Dominion machines in Georgia.

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

Just now, Scraps said:

 

Hand recounts of paper ballots verified the results of Dominion machines in Georgia.

Talk to your boys here.  
 

I’ve never doubted that people will vote for Biden even in his present condition.  Tribalism, protectionism, liberal guilt and protecting the home field all contribute to people overlooking some stunningly obvious issue with this member of the ruling class.  Transpy just commented about how the Rs are all old rich guys while pulling the lever loudly and proudly for...a rich old white guy. 
 

I was fully prepared for this eventuality.  
 

That said, it seems for some that the argument that there was no election fraud and the machines and software we flawless has morphed into something else entirely.  I’m onboard with complete and total transparency and quite frankly would advocate declassifying just about everything we’ve got.  

[Scraps]

3 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

Talk to your boys here.  
 

I’ve never doubted that people will vote for Biden even in his present condition.  Tribalism, protectionism, liberal guilt and protecting the home field all contribute to people overlooking some stunningly obvious issue with this member of the ruling class.  Transpy just commented about how the Rs are all old rich guys while pulling the lever loudly and proudly for...a rich old white guy. 
 

I was fully prepared for this eventuality.  
 

That said, it seems for some that the argument that there was no election fraud and the machines and software we flawless has morphed into something else entirely.  I’m onboard with complete and total transparency and quite frankly would advocate declassifying just about everything we’ve got.  

 

So are you saying there was wide spread fraud?  Enough to flip the election?

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

1 minute ago, Scraps said:

 

So are you saying there was wide spread fraud?  Enough to flip the election?

Are you suggesting that if there was widespread fraud that wouldn’t change the election results it should be disregarded and we all simply move on? 

[Scraps]

2 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

Are you suggesting that if there was widespread fraud that wouldn’t change the election results it should be disregarded and we all simply move on? 

 

Based on history here, I don't answer people who dodge by avoiding answering my questions.  Answer mine and I will answer yours.

[shoshin]

9 hours ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

Are you suggesting that if there was widespread fraud that wouldn’t change the election results it should be disregarded and we all simply move on? 

 

You want to prove something for which there is no evidence. Why is this the first election ever where we don't accept the winner? 

 

I suspect because Trump keeps up this narrative and these court cases that are getting laughed out of every court. 

 

I ask the Occam's Razor query again specifically of you only:

 

Republican SC justices including Kavanaugh, Gorsich, and Barrett, Republican PA Legislature, 4 R governors, Multiple R federal court judges and many Trump appointees, as well as all the dem operatives, all engaged in the biggest deep state caper of all time 

 

vs. 

 

Trump lost

 

Which do you think happened? 

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

25 minutes ago, shoshin said:

 

You want to prove something for which there is no evidence. Why is this the first election ever where we don't accept the winner? 

 

I suspect because Trump keeps up this narrative and these court cases that are getting laughed out of every court. 

 

I ask the Occam's Razor query again specifically of you only:

 

Republican SC justices including Kavanaugh, Gorsich, and Barrett, Republican PA Legislature, 4 R governors, Multiple R federal court judges and many Trump appointees, as well as all the dem operatives, all engaged in the biggest deep state caper of all time 

 

vs. 

 

Trump lost

 

Which do you think happened? 

Define "accept the winner" as it relates to Russia, Ukraine Impeachment and the democrat majority in the house.  

[shoshin]

1 minute ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

Define "accept the winner" as it relates to Russia, Ukraine Impeachment and the democrat majority in the house.  

 

Nope. Answer my question. Don't dodge. 

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

2 minutes ago, shoshin said:

 

Nope. Answer my question. Don't dodge. 

You've attempted to accomplish three goals here.  

 

1. Ask an either/or question, framed as you see fit, with a subjective and incendiary narrative;

2. You've refused to respond to a query  that better frames the argument so I understand your perspective;

3. You've accused me of dodging a question, thereby creating the appearance that the question is valid in form and I am unwilling to answer;

 

I reject the question in both content and form.  

 

 

[shoshin]

5 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

You've attempted to accomplish three goals here.  

 

1. Ask an either/or question, framed as you see fit, with a subjective and incendiary narrative;

2. You've refused to respond to a query  that better frames the argument so I understand your perspective;

3. You've accused me of dodging a question, thereby creating the appearance that the question is valid in form and I am unwilling to answer;

 

I reject the question in both content and form.  

 

 

 

It's not complicated and I'll make it easier and less incindiary for you: 

 

Biden winning is (one of, if not THE) biggest deep state caper of all time 

 

vs. 

 

Trump lost

 

Which is it? 

 

I'll answer your framed question if you answer mine. If I welch on that, you can call me a person of low moral character and I will be proven so. I asked first. 

Edited December 11, 2020 by shoshin

[WEATHER DOT COM]

Why didn't the people screaming about fraud now support any of the election security bills passed in the House before the election?

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

23 minutes ago, shoshin said:

 

It's not complicated and I'll make it easier and less incindiary for you: 

 

Biden winning is (one of, if not THE) biggest deep state caper of all time 

 

vs. 

 

Trump lost

 

Which is it? 

 

I'll answer your framed question if you answer mine. If I welch on that, you can call me a person of low moral character and I will be proven so. I asked first. 

I cleaned it up for you as the additional verbiage was superfluous.  

 

Option 3:  Too soon to answer.  

 

Today, Option 3 is my answer. 

 

That said, I'll follow the same course of action you suggested with respect to grabbing a heap of Biden lovin today and reviewing his presidency 4 years hence--come the third week in January, I'll be in a position to answer. Could be sooner.  

 

I'm also happy to speculate as to what I think it will look like come January 20.  Just ask--but watch the loaded questions--they will be summarily dismissed, probably with prejudice because that's what we Trump supporters do. 

[shoshin]

3 hours ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

I cleaned it up for you as the additional verbiage was superfluous.  

 

Option 3:  Too soon to answer.  

 

Today, Option 3 is my answer. 

 

That said, I'll follow the same course of action you suggested with respect to grabbing a heap of Biden lovin today and reviewing his presidency 4 years hence--come the third week in January, I'll be in a position to answer. Could be sooner.  

 

I'm also happy to speculate as to what I think it will look like come January 20.  Just ask--but watch the loaded questions--they will be summarily dismissed, probably with prejudice because that's what we Trump supporters do. 

 

You believe in the lack of evidence. 

 

Can you render an answer about who won the 2016 election or is it also too soon? How about 2000? What is your usual evidentiary time period to render an opinion about who won an election? 

[jrober38]

It's pretty clear at this point that there was no fraud. 

 

The election was over a month ago and there hasn't been a shred of evidence provided to support that claim. 

 

Also, GOP lawyers aren't even alleging fraud in their lawsuits. 

[DrDawkinstein]

3 hours ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

I cleaned it up for you as the additional verbiage was superfluous.  

 

Option 3:  Too soon to answer.  

 

Today, Option 3 is my answer. 

 

 

Taking that cop-out doesnt make you look as smart or above it all as you think it does. It's a long form way of saying but not saying "Option 1: Deep state conspiracy".

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

18 minutes ago, shoshin said:

 

You believe in the lack of evidence. 

 

Can you render an answer about who won the 2016 election or is it also too soon? How about 2000? What is your usual evidentiary time period to render an opinion about who won an election? 

Insubordinate...and churlish. 

 

2016 was DJT.

 

2000 was George the W.  Ironically, if you asked this question on this very date in 2000, I would have answered the same way I did today.  Not sure you would have had ants in your pants.  

 

Usual evidentiary time period runs election day until concession/the end of court challenges.  See the year 2000. 

 

Btw--this is awkward but....you are perilously close to being labelled a person of low moral character and proven as such.  I think you said this previously:

 

I'll answer your framed question if you answer mine. If I welch on that, you can call me a person of low moral character and I will be proven so. I asked first. 

Edited 4 hours ago by shoshin

 

•  
• Quote

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

2 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Taking that cop-out doesnt make you look as smart or above it all as you think it does. It's a long form way of saying but not saying "Option 1: Deep state conspiracy".

Maybe, but dropping an apostrophe on a word used every day ain't gonna get you into Mensa neither pal. 

 

Now that we're past the insults, I answered the question honestly, it's no more or less a "cop-out" than any other response. While I understand your position, I'm extremely comfortable with mine.

 

One last thing Johnny Bravo, no one says 'cop-out' anymore.  

[Iron Maiden]

 

Today from Wisconsin's ruling........Question for Trump's apostles........why are they not bringing fraud charges if it's " Wide spread "...........are they simply incompetent ? ( well, Rudy clearly is...but what about all the others.)...Are Trump's lawyers part of the Deep State movement ? I believe this is Trump's 51st loss in court...at what point does it become abuse of process ?......

 

"The Milwaukee County Circuit Court in Wisconsin has denied the Trump campaign's attempt to toss out 220,000 ballots it said should have been rejected following recounts in Dane and Milwaukee Counties. Judge Stephen Simanek noted the campaign made "no allegations of widespread fraud," nor did it submit any evidence that would support such claims."

[jrober38]

1 minute ago, Iron Maiden said:

 

Today from Wisconsin's ruling........Question for Trump's apostles........why are they not bringing fraud charges if it's " Wide spread "...........are they simply incompetent ? ( well, Rudy clearly is...but what about all the others.)...Are Trump's lawyers part of the Deep State movement ? I believe this is Trump's 51st loss in court...at what point does it become abuse of process ?......

 

"The Milwaukee County Circuit Court in Wisconsin has denied the Trump campaign's attempt to toss out 220,000 ballots it said should have been rejected following recounts in Dane and Milwaukee Counties. Judge Stephen Simanek noted the campaign made "no allegations of widespread fraud," nor did it submit any evidence that would support such claims."

 

Because there is no fraud.

 

They want to abolish democracy. Plain and simple. That's all this is about. 

 

Republicans don't believe in the core concept of a Democracy when the people who get the most votes win. They cling to the electoral college as being something "fair", and now that it's not working for them they're pissed and they can't accept reality. They're losing their last remaining grip on power and they're absolutely petrified. 

 

Because they never believed in democracy to begin with, it's easy for them to move towards accepting a Dictator if it means they get their way, hence tens of millions of GOP voters getting on board with tossing an election because their guy didn't win. 

[Warcodered]

5 hours ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

You've attempted to accomplish three goals here.  

 

1. Ask an either/or question, framed as you see fit, with a subjective and incendiary narrative;

2. You've refused to respond to a query  that better frames the argument so I understand your perspective;

3. You've accused me of dodging a question, thereby creating the appearance that the question is valid in form and I am unwilling to answer;

 

I reject the question in both content and form.  

 

 

 

4 hours ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

I cleaned it up for you as the additional verbiage was superfluous.  

 

Option 3:  Too soon to answer.  

 

Today, Option 3 is my answer. 

 

That said, I'll follow the same course of action you suggested with respect to grabbing a heap of Biden lovin today and reviewing his presidency 4 years hence--come the third week in January, I'll be in a position to answer. Could be sooner.  

 

I'm also happy to speculate as to what I think it will look like come January 20.  Just ask--but watch the loaded questions--they will be summarily dismissed, probably with prejudice because that's what we Trump supporters do. 

1 hour ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

Insubordinate...and churlish. 

 

2016 was DJT.

 

2000 was George the W.  Ironically, if you asked this question on this very date in 2000, I would have answered the same way I did today.  Not sure you would have had ants in your pants.  

 

Usual evidentiary time period runs election day until concession/the end of court challenges.  See the year 2000. 

 

Btw--this is awkward but....you are perilously close to being labelled a person of low moral character and proven as such.  I think you said this previously:

 

I'll answer your framed question if you answer mine. If I welch on that, you can call me a person of low moral character and I will be proven so. I asked first. 

Edited 4 hours ago by shoshin

 

•  
•  
• Quote

You never answered his question.

[shoshin]

2 hours ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

Insubordinate...and churlish. 

 

2016 was DJT.

 

Well...2016 was much closer than this election so...

 

Quote

Btw--this is awkward but....you are perilously close to being labelled a person of low moral character and proven as such.  I think you said this previously:

 

I'll answer your framed question if you answer mine. If I welch on that, you can call me a person of low moral character and I will be proven so. I asked first. 

Edited 4 hours ago by shoshin

 

•  
•  
• Quote

 

As you know, you didn't answer my question. 

 

But unlike you, I'll answer yours because I take an accusation of a breach of honor seriously. I hope you didn't make that allegation in a flip way.

 

"Define "accept the winner" as it relates to Russia, Ukraine Impeachment and the democrat majority in the house.  "

 

In full disclosure, I am not sure that I understand your question and feel free to clarify if you want. 

 

Russia: Not sure who won. America lost. I've discussed this elsewhere recently. I "accept the winner" in that I accept that there was no collusion. 

 

Ukraine impeachment: Not sure who won. America lost. The inquiry made sense to me. The impeachment did not. I "accept the winner" in that I accept the verdict.

 

Democrat majority in the house: No idea what you mean here. Dems have won more elections and thus have the majority. I "accept the winner" in that I accept the results of the election. 

Edited December 11, 2020 by shoshin

[BillStime]

No fraud

 

 

[Warcodered]

21 minutes ago, BillStime said:

No fraud

 

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/supreme-court-rejects-texas-suit-challenging-biden-s-victory/ar-BB1bRm9c?ocid=msedgntp

Trump using the courts to steal this Election:

[Iron Maiden]

5 hours ago, jrober38 said:

 

Because there is no fraud.

 

They want to abolish democracy. Plain and simple. That's all this is about. 

 

Republicans don't believe in the core concept of a Democracy when the people who get the most votes win. They cling to the electoral college as being something "fair", and now that it's not working for them they're pissed and they can't accept reality. They're losing their last remaining grip on power and they're absolutely petrified. 

 

Because they never believed in democracy to begin with, it's easy for them to move towards accepting a Dictator if it means they get their way, hence tens of millions of GOP voters getting on board with tossing an election because their guy didn't win. 

 

For the record, I am a Republican.....a Republican that despised Trump.....not all GOP members are completely crazy !.....We need to stay away from those wide statements....not all Dems are " level headed " either.....

Edited December 12, 2020 by Iron Maiden

[jrober38]

6 minutes ago, Iron Maiden said:

 

For the record, I am a Republican.....a Republican that despised Trump.....not all GOP members are completely crazy !.....We need to stay away from those wide statements....not all Dems are " level headed " either.....

 

Fine.

 

MAGA supporters. 

[Iron Maiden]

2 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

Fine.

 

MAGA supporters. 

 

MAGAs stole my party.....the one thing that does give me hope, is that overall, the GOP did well down ballot......Blue on top, Red for the rest......so I think there's quite a few in my predicament.....

[jrober38]

15 minutes ago, Iron Maiden said:

 

MAGAs stole my party.....the one thing that does give me hope, is that overall, the GOP did well down ballot......Blue on top, Red for the rest......so I think there's quite a few in my predicament.....

 

They don't represent you.

 

The party caters entirely to the MAGA, grievance filled wing of the party. 

 

The don't believe in democracy or the constitution. They're only loyal to their dictator. 

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

3 hours ago, shoshin said:

 

Well...2016 was much closer than this election so...

 

 

As you know, you didn't answer my question. 

 

But unlike you, I'll answer yours because I take an accusation of a breach of honor seriously. I hope you didn't make that allegation in a flip way.

 

"Define "accept the winner" as it relates to Russia, Ukraine Impeachment and the democrat majority in the house.  "

 

In full disclosure, I am not sure that I understand your question and feel free to clarify if you want. 

 

Russia: Not sure who won. America lost. I've discussed this elsewhere recently. I "accept the winner" in that I accept that there was no collusion. 

 

Ukraine impeachment: Not sure who won. America lost. The inquiry made sense to me. The impeachment did not. I "accept the winner" in that I accept the verdict.

 

Democrat majority in the house: No idea what you mean here. Dems have won more elections and thus have the majority. I "accept the winner" in that I accept the results of the election. 

Whatever. You asked a dopey loaded question, I nicely explained the issue l had with it, and ultimately provided an answer that made sense to me. 
 

I did not make an accusation, I gently nudged you because you had previously indicated you would answer mine.  I don’t really care that you didn’t like my answer, but an answer was provided. 
 

I appreciate your effort with respect to Russia and Ukraine.  I’m more convinced than ever about the path that needs to be taken. 
 

Enjoy your night. 

[shoshin]

1 minute ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

Whatever. You asked a dopey loaded question, I nicely explained the issue l had with it, and ultimately provided an answer that made sense to me. 
 

 

If you think Trump won, then you must think there was a giant conspiracy to pull off this fraud no? 

 

1 minute ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

I appreciate your effort with respect to Russia and Ukraine.  I’m more convinced than ever about the path that needs to be taken. 

 

What path is that? 

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

2 hours ago, shoshin said:

 

If you think Trump won, then you must think there was a giant conspiracy to pull off this fraud no? 
 

I did not answer that I thought Trump won.  You know this, why play this game?  

Quote

 

 

What path is that? 

The one I previously outlined. Unity is overrated.