Covid-19 And Its Structural Change To America

[3rdnlng]

The pandemic has obviously influenced our daily lives but what will it do to the long-term makeup of our country or our customary way of doing things? As an example, the massive amount of people who have worked from home in the last few months have proven to many companies that they can make it permanent. This in turn cuts down on the office space these companies need, therefor making office space readily available and cheaper. The downtown restaurants, convenience stores and even dry cleaners will have less business while the suburban versions may have an increase. The person who used to eat out for lunch and pay $20 may choose to make a sandwich at home for $1.50. With so many people not traveling back and forth to work each day will we have a substantial reduction in carbon emissions and a glut of fossil fuels? 

 

The above is just a few things to think about. What other changes do you see? Also, the sharp operator may get ahead of the crowd and decide to make an investment in some section of our economy that will get a boost as a result of the pandemic. Watcha think?

[3rdnlng]

Bump. I was hoping to actually get some thoughtful responses to this.

[US Egg]

The food at many restaurants that re-opened is not as good as it was previous to the outbreak.

[Buffalo Bills Fan]

If Joe Biden wins everything might change. I keep thinking they might might make a play covid19.  

 

I really think t and b cells helps ( agreement with many) but there are those might be damage for life sadly.  That's my worries about this virus. But glad they have meds to help people and stuff. Get thru it and have immune cells.

 

President Trump needs to win. Democrats control if wins will try to control more. America going to be way worse.  They don't do things for honor or anything sadly.

 

What you said earlier bussiness lost, rural areas are getting badly. Many shut down here.  

 

President Trump has been right on lots of things. Need to have him in over the madness lately. Democrats are going to try to change more with no honor with American people or just people in general.

[Azalin]

I mentioned in another thread (probably the covid-19 thread) that many people that used to work in downtown Austin are now working from home. We got slammed at work in recent months installing high-priority, high-capacity fiber optic data circuits designed to provide access for employees to work from home.  Many were for private business, but many were also for state agencies. Traffic in and out of downtown is a fraction of what it normally is, and I suspect that it will remain that way for quite some time. What few restaurants that are open are operating on a shoestring budget with reduced-capacity seating. Many are closed for good. Bars and clubs are really hurting, with iconic music venues going away forever. COVID-19 is having a massive impact on Austin businesses, much of which I believe will be permanent. 

 

One industry that's going gangbusters is the collective delivery services. I've been having my groceries delivered for a couple years now, but since COVID I've been getting beer and liquor delivered, have had my laundry picked up and delivered, and have increased my Amazon purchases, as well as my food orders from both Grubhub and DoorDash. In a post-COVID world I would imagine some of that to fall off to an extent, but I believe the availability of delivery services will continue to grow now that it's in place. 

[Joe Miner]

Much like many companies pay an employee a monthly stipend for a cell phone so that they can stay connected through email and such, many companies will start looking at the idea of paying an employee a stipend to set up a home office so that they are able to ditch the costs of expensive building leases.

 

I’m not sure downtown office space will ever return to where it was before Covid.

[dpberr]

Provided there's an effective vaccine, I see a lot of "life' reverting  back to February 2020 "normal".   Not necessarily because I want it to, but you'll find that there are a lot of forces that will push it that way.  

 

1.  One of the reasons I have this opinion is the reaction to the lock downs.  When you tell someone they can't have something, they want it 100 times more than they did before.  I think part of the problem with virus spikes is that the lock downs created a frenzy of pent up demand, and when the government let everyone out of their cages, people went crazy and flocked to the beach, flocked to restaurants, flocked to bars.  Kids, who've spent nearly 180 days without seeing other kids, and are generally at their most stupid during the college years, made up for lost time with huge parties at college.   

 

If the crisis was managed at the outset, versus an attempt to choke it off or flat out ignore it,  where businesses and travel stayed open but rigorous mask wearing was required among other precautions, people wouldn't have had that deep sense of "missing out."  The federal and state governments get artistic style points for botching the COVID response.  That's what you get when you've got crap leadership everywhere.  I think everyone sucked.  Trump.  Governors.  

 

2.  The economy was and is disturbingly fragile.  So many businesses, industries, pension funds, landlords, rich people with influence, and cities have discovered (or soon will discover) they desperately rely on people going somewhere to work to make money.  I think you'll see a significant push from the real estate industry and local government to get people back into office buildings, patronizing downtown restaurants and businesses, etc.  NYC is a dead city without Manhattan brimming with people.  Your local restaurant desperately needs a full dining room to make a profit.  Your pension funds that invest in real estate companies that own Class A office space need those buildings with leases that pay money.  

 

3.  People are going to find out working from home is difficult, especially if it's permanent.  Even under the best of circumstances, you're isolated, held hostage by your internet connection.  You're even more isolated if others are back at work with face to face contact.  Out of sight, out of mind.  While during spring/summer/fall, working from home allows for taking breaks outside to enjoy the weather, how about in the middle of winter?  

 

4.  The government wants you all to drive.  A lot.  Money that funds transportation projects at the federal level and at nearly every state level relies on a gas tax.  

 

5.  Schools and teachers unions want kids in school.  The only way you keep everyone employed is to have them actively working in the building.  Teachers unions fighting in-person instruction win a battle just to lose a war.  Once people are laid off, especially in the public sector, those positions are rarely filled ever again.  

 

6.  Absence makes the heart grow fonder.  Divorces are skyrocketing in the months of this pandemic because people figured out that living with each other and the kids 24/7 is a nightmare, and the time away at work was a positive influence on the relationship.  

 

7.  People enjoy being unhealthy.  COVID should strike the fear into every smoker, drinker and overweight person.  Have you seen a lot of people who got healthier in the last couple months?    I don't.  I think people will continue to eat out a lot, booze a lot, and smoke a lot.  

 

I could go on.  I think three years removed from vaccine day you might see that the only thing that might "stick" is mask wearing during flu season.  

[ziltoid]

19 hours ago, Buffalo Bills Fan said:

If Joe Biden wins everything might change. I keep thinking they might might make a play covid19.  

 

I don't think you mean this, but I could totally see Cuomo being involved in a COVID19 Broadway play when they reopen.  Problem is, by his metrics it may be after his kingly reign is over.  Don't worry, they'll still treat him like royalty.

 

 

You may finally see fiber being run to rural areas if companies start subsidizing home internet access.  Capitalism to the rescue!

Edited September 3, 2020 by BeerLeagueHockey

[Capco]

17 hours ago, BeerLeagueHockey said:

Capitalism to the rescue!

 

[ziltoid]

14 minutes ago, Capco said:

 

Labor with a U - opinion dismissed.

[Capco]

2 minutes ago, BeerLeagueHockey said:

Labor with a U - opinion dismissed.

 

"America First" in a nutshell.  

[ziltoid]

1 minute ago, Capco said:

 

"America First" in a nutshell.  

Yes, because my dream is to put little kids to work.

Why did that comment russle your jimmies so much? Capitalism ruin your life?

 

 

[Capco]

1 minute ago, BeerLeagueHockey said:

Why did that comment russle your jimmies so much? Capitalism ruin your life?

 

Nothing personal.  Your post was the most recent search result for the word "capitalism" lol.  

 

Also, the point of my "America First" reference was not to suggest that you want to employ children, but rather to highlight your automatic dismissal of something because it doesn't fit your worldview.

 

"Americans are often stereotyped as arrogant people. They are frequently depicted in foreign media as excessively nationalistic and obnoxiously patriotic, believing the U.S. is better than all other countries and patronizing foreigners."

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereotypes_of_Americans#Arrogance_and_nationalism

Edited September 4, 2020 by Capco

[ziltoid]

1 minute ago, Capco said:

 

Nothing personal.  Your post was the most recent search result for the word "capitalism" lol.  

Fair enough.  Try searching the term trump, I hear he may have caused some consternation somewhere once.

[TakeYouToTasker]

19 minutes ago, Capco said:

 

Thank you “Commie Spice”.

 

Just a quick reminder for the class that capitalism had nearly ended the practice  of child labor in the very early 1900’s, through automation and quality of life improvements; less labor was required to produce more goods, and increased wages for adult earners, freeing children from their human  history long obligations of toiling along with the rest of their families so as not to starve.

 

Along came the government in 1938 to pass an unnecessary law, and take credit for work already done by markets and innovation.

 

In fact, all the law actually served to do was to completely impoverish those scant few remaining families reliant on the wages of their children to survive; driving a spike of abandoned street children whose parents could no longer afford their care.

[Capco]

1 minute ago, TakeYouToTasker said:

Thank you “Commie Spice”.

 

Just a quick reminder for the class that capitalism had nearly ended the practice  of child labor in the very early 1900’s, through automation and quality of life improvements; less labor was required to produce more goods, and increased wages for adult earners, freeing children from their human  history long obligations of toiling along with the rest of their families so as not to starve.

 

Along came the government in 1938 to pass an unnecessary law, and take credit for work already done by markets and innovation.

 

In fact, all the law actually served to do was to completely impoverish those scant few remaining families reliant on the wages of their children to survive; driving a spike of abandoned street children whose parents could no longer afford their care.

 

I'm so glad there's not been any child labor in the world for the past 100 years. All thanks to capitalism (and not science or technology, of course; neither can exist without the foundation that is capitalism).  

[SectionC3]

31 minutes ago, BeerLeagueHockey said:

Yes, because my dream is to put little kids to work.

Why did that comment russle your jimmies so much? Capitalism ruin your life?

 

 

 

I’d rather have kids working than pulling security with an AR-15 in Kenosha.  Maybe there’s a happy middle ground where we don’t have child labor and don’t have heavily armed children roaming the streets. 

[Reality Check]

Just now, SectionC3 said:

 

I’d rather have kids ***** than pulling security with an AR-15 in Kenosha.  Maybe there’s a happy middle ground where we have child ***** and don’t have heavily armed children roaming the streets. 

 

[3rdnlng]

1 hour ago, SectionC3 said:

 

I’d rather have kids working than pulling security with an AR-15 in Kenosha.  Maybe there’s a happy middle ground where we don’t have child labor and don’t have heavily armed children roaming the streets. 

Well, at least organize them:

 

[SectionC3]

3 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said:

Well, at least organize them:

 

 

Had to reach back in time to find a photo of some dark-skinned children with assault weapons.  No undertones of racism there whatsoever!

1 hour ago, Reality Check said:

 

Looks like you have a nasty case of SC3 Derangement Syndrome!

[TakeYouToTasker]

2 hours ago, Capco said:

 

I'm so glad there's not been any child labor in the world for the past 100 years. All thanks to capitalism (and not science or technology, of course; neither can exist without the foundation that is capitalism).  

Are you making the argument that all nations are equally technologically and economically advanced as the United States?  Or are you making the argument that technological and economic advancement haven’t drastically reduced global dependence on child labor over the course of the last century?  Or perhaps it‘s some ultra dopey Voltron of both of those poorly reasoned arguments?

 

And yes, innovation encompasses technology and science, which are both permitted to exist, driven by capitalism.

[Reality Check]

1 hour ago, SectionC3 said:

 

Had to reach back in time to find a photo of some dark-skinned children with assault weapons.  No undertones of racism there whatsoever!

Looks like you have a nasty case of SC3 Derangement Syndrome!

 

[3rdnlng]

1 hour ago, SectionC3 said:

 

Had to reach back in time to find a photo of some dark-skinned children with assault weapons.  No undertones of racism there whatsoever!

Looks like you have a nasty case of SC3 Derangement Syndrome!

What, because I post pictures of the South Side Training Camp in Chicago?

[Koko78]

4 hours ago, Capco said:

"Americans are often stereotyped as arrogant people. They are frequently depicted in foreign media as excessively nationalistic and obnoxiously patriotic, believing the U.S. is better than all other countries and patronizing foreigners."

 

...and?

[Capco]

6 hours ago, TakeYouToTasker said:

Are you making the argument that all nations are equally technologically and economically advanced as the United States?  Or are you making the argument that technological and economic advancement haven’t drastically reduced global dependence on child labor over the course of the last century?  Or perhaps it‘s some ultra dopey Voltron of both of those poorly reasoned arguments?

 

And yes, innovation encompasses technology and science, which are both permitted to exist, driven by capitalism.

 

You do realize how much of our clothing, electronics and other products, produced by companies headquartered in some 1st world nation, come from sweatshops in 2nd/3rd world countries with minors working there, with far more innovation and technology than were present 100 years ago, don't you? 

 

https://theowp.org/reports/child-labour-shameful-reality-21st-century/

 

Child labor laws in the US have just driven American companies to obtain their child labor in countries that either have no/fewer laws preventing the use of child labor, or haven't the means to widely enforce the laws they do have.  

 

The desire to make money is still the driving force behind child labor to this day.  However, the desire to make money is certainly not the only driver of innovation, although it can be a big part of it and as such I believe it must be balanced with the other drives in people's lives.  Insatiable greed is what leads to things like child labor in a world of abundance.  We aren't meant to just seek out money and nothing else; it isn't our only motivation in life or even the most powerful one. 

Trying to argue that child labor laws were not only unnecessary but also harmful is as ludicrous as it is stupid.  If that were true then apparently you are a proponent of the removal of child labor laws as an unnecessary regulation (maybe because it is strangling free trade?).  To your point, the drafting of child labor laws was maybe harmful in the sense that capitalism was the driving force behind families having to put their children to work in the first place.  The do-or-die nature of unregulated capitalism, particularly the Gilded Age preceding the Progressive Era, when there were very few (if any) of social safety nets and labor laws that we have today, is what hurt those who were consumed by its insatiable greed until it was finally (although not completely) reined in. 

 

You see, no children get left on the street when there are publicly funded programs in place to take care of people who are down on their luck.  Instead of "do or die," I prefer the phrase "The playing field is even: do well or don't do well.  The choice is yours." 

Edited September 5, 2020 by Capco

[Chef Jim]

All this talk of this causing urban centers to pack up their tents is very interesting.   When I lived in the Bay Area just the opposite was all the rage. Urban centers where people lived and worked.  It was going to be UTOPIA!!   Hey lefty cities!!  What happened to this great idea you had?  You shot it all to hell!

[Capco]

4 hours ago, Koko78 said:

 

...and?

 

Haha.

[3rdnlng]

11 hours ago, Chef Jim said:

All this talk of this causing urban centers to pack up their tents is very interesting.   When I lived in the Bay Area just the opposite was all the rage. Urban centers where people lived and worked.  It was going to be UTOPIA!!   Hey lefty cities!!  What happened to this great idea you had?  You shot it all to hell!

There aren't enough parking spaces for cars in the cities thus limiting the places where the new occupants canshiton.