There should be a national dialogue in getting back to work

[BuffaloHokie13]

2 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  What if his "data" points to a shutdown of Buffalo and Rochester?  I still believe that it would not be necessary to shutdown the rest of the region but he may decide otherwise due to hospital bed issues or some other reason.  No reason to shutdown Jamestown, Olean, Hornell, Batavia, Geneva, etc. but he may do so and he might instruct the state police that they are not allowed to be passive in the matter.

As long as he brings the receipts I believe the vast majority will be accepting. It's unfortunate that the well is already so poisoned with misinformation, but that just amplifies the need for him to point to verifiable data if he expects reasonable compliance imo

Just now, spartacus said:

manipulated numbers are not statistics to base policy on

where are the "statistics" for recoveries and treatment success?

you know the things that impact overwhelming the hopitals

As I just implied above, the well has been sufficiently poisoned and as such he should expect whatever receipts he produces to be heavily scrutinized. Not saying that's what will happen, but at this point if you want peaceful compliance you need a very solid case.

[Cinga]

2 minutes ago, spartacus said:

manipulated numbers are not statistics to base policy on

where are the "statistics" for recoveries and treatment success?

you know the things that impact overwhelming the hopitals

 

 

 

I was just going to say pretty much this same thing. All you have to do is look to the people who keep pointing to the uptick of infections while ignoring the declining death rate.

[RochesterRob]

13 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

As long as he brings the receipts I believe the vast majority will be accepting. It's unfortunate that the well is already so poisoned with misinformation, but that just amplifies the need for him to point to verifiable data if he expects reasonable compliance imo

I don't see that.  Despite what has been said by politicians among others the livelihood of many people are still hanging in the balance.  Many businesses that do not run on hefty margins have a few months of income to make up and no doubt have creditors waiting on them to make accounts current.  These business people are going to take every step possible to protect their means of living since the government will not do so.  Banks are in a tough position as loans are not allowed to float indefinitely.  At some point they will be forced to undertake unpleasant actions including foreclosure as banking laws require that loans have some degree of quality meaning they can be paid per a schedule.

[BuffaloHokie13]

10 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

I don't see that.  Despite what has been said by politicians among others the livelihood of many people are still hanging in the balance.  Many businesses that do not run on hefty margins have a few months of income to make up and no doubt have creditors waiting on them to make accounts current.  These business people are going to take every step possible to protect their means of living since the government will not do so.  Banks are in a tough position as loans are not allowed to float indefinitely.  At some point they will be forced to undertake unpleasant actions including foreclosure as banking laws require that loans have some degree of quality meaning they can be paid per a schedule.

To be clear, the circumstances necessary to bring another shutdown would need to be along the lines of multiple Buffalo hospitals at capacity, excessive patient transfers, and patients dying because of it. We're past the point of models or projections dictating actions and it would very much be reactive.

[RochesterRob]

2 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

To be clear, the circumstances necessary to bring another shutdown would need to be along the lines of multiple Buffalo hospitals at capacity, excessive patient transfers, and patients dying because of it. We're past the point of models or projections dictating actions and it would very much be reactive.

  And if I am some coffee shop proprietor or other business person who has a stack of notices on his desk about unpaid bills including a notice that I am two weeks past due on my home mortgage I am going to run my business until the cops come along to padlock me closed.  

[123719bwiqrb]

35 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  And if I am some coffee shop proprietor or other business person who has a stack of notices on his desk about unpaid bills including a notice that I am two weeks past due on my home mortgage I am going to run my business until the cops come along to padlock me closed.  

The gym owners are still patiently waiting.  But there may be a huge liquidation of gym assets in another month or so when they all go bankrupt.  NYS will not even discuss gyms, no guidance, no mention of what phase they are in.  

[Buffalo_Gal]

3 minutes ago, 123719bwiqrb said:

The gym owners are still patiently waiting.  But there may be a huge liquidation of gym assets in another month or so when they all go bankrupt.  NYS will not even discuss gyms, no guidance, no mention of what phase they are in.  

Phase 4 is the final "phase." After that, it is an industry by industry decision by either Cuomo or the board of health.

I stopped in at my father's nursing home last week and asked if they knew anything. The nurse told me it was the board of health, not the governor, who would  be determining when nursing homes are open to visitors. If she is correct, who knows how long those poor people will remain in lock down.
 

[RochesterRob]

3 minutes ago, 123719bwiqrb said:

The gym owners are still patiently waiting.  But there may be a huge liquidation of gym assets in another month or so when they all go bankrupt.  NYS will not even discuss gyms, no guidance, no mention of what phase they are in.  

  The heat is on them plus a myriad of other small business operators with the need for the US government to step in and allow banks some flexibility on loans.  This will not solve everything if a business has credit extended to them by another business such as a restaurant having credit extended to them by a supplier.

[spartacus]

2 minutes ago, 123719bwiqrb said:

The gym owners are still patiently waiting.  But there may be a huge liquidation of gym assets in another month or so when they all go bankrupt.  NYS will not even discuss gyms, no guidance, no mention of what phase they are in.  

which is totally supported by the "statistics"

https://forward.ny.gov/early-warning-monitoring-dashboard

https://forward.ny.gov/daily-hospitalization-summary-region

 

The "statistics' clearly indicate that NY should be fully open

When will enough be enough?

 

 

 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

56 minutes ago, spartacus said:

which is totally supported by the "statistics"

https://forward.ny.gov/early-warning-monitoring-dashboard

https://forward.ny.gov/daily-hospitalization-summary-region

 

The "statistics' clearly indicate that NY should be fully open

When will enough be enough?

 

 

 

 

 

…….sorry Big Fredo isn't done yet...……….

 

With Legislature idle, Cuomo changed 262 laws in 55 days

Cuomo invokes executive powers during pandemic to changes to hundreds of laws and regulations

 

Brendan J. Lyons

May 2, 2020Updated: May 2, 2020 6 p.m.

 

 

 

 

ALBANY — In the two months since Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo declared a state of emergency on March 7, he has invoked the powers of his office to issue more than 25 executive orders in response to the coronavirus pandemic.

 

 

The expansive orders have made hundreds of temporary but sweeping changes to state laws, including shutting down schools and businesses, as well as altering state regulations that govern public health, hospitals, nursing homes, elections, open meetings, court proceedings, purchasing procedures and child care.

Some of the decisions have also raised constitutional questions, including Cuomo's March 20 order that directed New Yorkers to engage in mandatory "social distancing." It's unclear if that measure or others like it — which have been widely followed — could be legally enforced.             

https://www.timesunion.com/news/article/With-Legislature-idle-Cuomo-changed-262-laws-in-15240581.php

 

Edited June 24, 2020 by OldTimeAFLGuy

[Buffalo_Gal]

Texas Travelers Headed to New York, Connecticut Or New Jersey to Quarantine for 14 Days

Visitors from states over a set infection rate will have to quarantine, according to NY Gov. Andrew Cuomo
 

New York, Connecticut and New Jersey will require visitors from states with high infection rates, including Texas, to quarantine for 14 days, New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo said Wednesday.
 

"We now have to make sure the rates continue to drop," Cuomo said. "We also have to make sure the virus doesn't come on a plane again."
 

</snip>
.

[RiotAct]

2 hours ago, spartacus said:

which is totally supported by the "statistics"

https://forward.ny.gov/early-warning-monitoring-dashboard

https://forward.ny.gov/daily-hospitalization-summary-region

 

The "statistics' clearly indicate that NY should be fully open

When will enough be enough?

 

 

 

yeah, what happened to “flatten the curve”?  It looks like the goalposts - surprise, surprise - have moved to “eradicate the virus completely”.

[Tiberius]

Texas might be closing up again. Spiking numbers there 

[B-Man]

 

No link / No truth Tiberius they call him...................

 

 

Pandemic Porn Purveyor 

[Buffalo_Gal]

Wow, this will have a lot of consequences. People will need to quit jobs to stay home with their children, people will have to hire a nanny to continue to work, people will home school their children (and take part in the home school socialization + sports), people will move to an area that offers in-person schooling... I could go on. 
 

Fairfax families have a choice for next school year: Two days on campus or full-time remote learning

Fairfax County Public Schools, one of the country’s largest districts, is asking families to choose between 100 percent virtual learning or part-time in-person schooling next year, one of the first concrete plans for fall released by schools nationwide.
 

The superintendent of the Northern Virginia district, which serves 189,000 students, announced the setup to parents in an email Wednesday morning, writing that all families will be able to choose between two enrollment options for the 2020-2021 school year.
 

In the first, students will receive “virtual, interactive instruction” four days each week, and they will never set foot on campus. In the second, students will attend school for at least two “full days” of instruction inside school buildings and participate in independent study and work on the remaining days.
 

</snip>

[RochesterRob]

7 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

Wow, this will have a lot of consequences. People will need to quit jobs to stay home with their children, people will have to hire a nanny to continue to work, people will home school their children (and take part in the home school socialization + sports), people will move to an area that offers in-person schooling... I could go on. 
 

Fairfax families have a choice for next school year: Two days on campus or full-time remote learning

Fairfax County Public Schools, one of the country’s largest districts, is asking families to choose between 100 percent virtual learning or part-time in-person schooling next year, one of the first concrete plans for fall released by schools nationwide.
 

The superintendent of the Northern Virginia district, which serves 189,000 students, announced the setup to parents in an email Wednesday morning, writing that all families will be able to choose between two enrollment options for the 2020-2021 school year.
 

In the first, students will receive “virtual, interactive instruction” four days each week, and they will never set foot on campus. In the second, students will attend school for at least two “full days” of instruction inside school buildings and participate in independent study and work on the remaining days.
 

</snip>

  I suspect that this is the tip of the iceberg nationally.  A lot of two paycheck homes will need a daycare option.  Might be good for local employment as there should be a net increase in the need to monitor children versus a bus driver who hauls 60 kids around twice per day or a lunch room monitor who tracks a few hundred kids per period.  Of course credentials and temperament will be more critical in somebody's home versus on a bus.

[Buffalo_Gal]

Just now, RochesterRob said:

  I suspect that this is the tip of the iceberg nationally.  A lot of two paycheck homes will need a daycare option.  Might be good for local employment as there should be a net increase in the need to monitor children versus a bus driver who hauls 60 kids around twice per day or a lunch room monitor who tracks a few hundred kids per period.  Of course credentials and temperament will be more critical in somebody's home versus on a bus.

The FIRST thing I saw was it was all Trump's fault for clamping down on au pair visas.

There were some day care numbers that came out today as part of the unemployment numbers, and that industry has been hit hard. They closed down many (most) of the day cares (one of my nephews never stopped going, but I know he's in the minority).

I wonder if taxes go down as the need for new buildings goes down, bus drivers, cafeteria workers, aides, gym teachers, coaches, books, in-school nurses, etc. goes away?
 

[Kevbeau]

1 minute ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

I wonder if taxes go down
 

??????

[RochesterRob]

1 minute ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

The FIRST thing I saw was it was all Trump's fault for clamping down on au pair visas.

There were some day care numbers that came out today as part of the unemployment numbers, and that industry has been hit hard. They closed down many (most) of the day cares (one of my nephews never stopped going, but I know he's in the minority).

I wonder if taxes go down as the need for new buildings goes down, bus drivers, cafeteria workers, aides, gym teachers, coaches, books, in-school nurses, etc. goes away?
 

  Daycare was hit hard as parents were laid off so they had the time to watch the kids and lacked the money to pay for daycare if they did not want to watch the kids.  Your scenario presupposes normal employment for parents versus continued problems in the economy.

  As to what happens with the school districts a lot will depend on what NEA does.  I'm surprised at the statements Cuomo has made to online schooling given NEA's stature in the Democratic Party.  Maybe Cuomo has NEA pegged as the dinosaur who has just seen the asteroid out of the corner of its eyes.

[Buffalo_Gal]

4 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  Daycare was hit hard as parents were laid off so they had the time to watch the kids and lacked the money to pay for daycare if they did not want to watch the kids.  Your scenario presupposes normal employment for parents versus continued problems in the economy.

  As to what happens with the school districts a lot will depend on what NEA does.  I'm surprised at the statements Cuomo has made to online schooling given NEA's stature in the Democratic Party.  Maybe Cuomo has NEA pegged as the dinosaur who has just seen the asteroid out of the corner of its eyes.

You think Cuomo is going to go against the teacher's union? That would shock me. Right now teachers are collecting from home. (Well, last check as the school year ends.) My niece (a teacher) took her daughter out of daycare and basically built a fort around their house. Funny part? Her SO works in the fire department and saw a ton of people on his days-on and yet no one was allowed near their house until two weeks ago. SMH