njbuff Posted April 14, 2020 Posted April 14, 2020 On 4/13/2020 at 10:34 PM, C.Biscuit97 said: Except he was completely won about that. Newton was playing at a MVP level and passing better than he ever has in 2018 and he got hurt. The only thing I disagree about is Jackson is a much better passer than Vick. Vick had a cannon but was not close to as accurate as Jackson is. Expand This is just flat out wrong. I am not bashing Jackson, as he is coming off an MVP year, but to say that he is a much better passer than Vick is flat wrong. I am not saying Vick is in Montana's class as a passer, but he deserves credit for being a decent passer as his days with Andy Reid would suggest. The Chargers and Titans proved that Jackson has a LONG way to go as a passer if he wants to win in the playoffs. Vick also handed the Packers their first home playoff loss ever. And he did it with a MUCH LESSER supporting cast than what Jackson had. Vick has also carried his team to the NFC Championship Game in 2004. Call me when Jackson wins his first playoff game. Point is, Jackson IS NOT a better passer than Vick was. Also, Jackson is only 22 and he can reach better heights than Vick ever did, but as of now, no he isn't what Vick was (and I hate Vick for obvious reasons). 2
FireChans Posted April 14, 2020 Posted April 14, 2020 On 4/14/2020 at 1:08 AM, Shaw66 said: All franchise QBs have passer ratings in the top 10 most years. Look em up.. Expand What’s your definition of “most years.” This is like defining after the fact.
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 14, 2020 Posted April 14, 2020 On 4/14/2020 at 1:35 AM, njbuff said: This is just flat out wrong. I am not bashing Jackson, as he is coming off an MVP year, but to say that he is a much better passer than Vick is flat wrong. I am not saying Vick is in Montana's class as a passer, but he deserves credit for being a decent passer as his days with Andy Reid would suggest. The Chargers and Titans proved that Jackson has a LONG way to go as a passer if he wants to win in the playoffs. Vick also handed the Packers their first home playoff loss ever. And he did it with a MUCH LESSER supporting cast than what Jackson had. Vick has also carried his team to the NFC Championship Game in 2004. Call me when Jackson wins his first playoff game. Point is, Jackson IS NOT a better passer than Vick was. Also, Jackson is only 22 and he can reach better heights than Vick ever did, but as of now, no he isn't what Vick was (and I hate Vick for obvious reasons). Expand Jackson had a better completion % and td passes this year than any season of Vick’s career. He also was a better passer in college. And who are his studs? A 2nd year TE who was so valued he was drafted in the 3rd round? A Rookie receiver who missed half of the year? Willie Snead? You guys works so hard fo try and discredit Jackson. People would kill for Allen to have that season. On 4/13/2020 at 11:56 PM, Shaw66 said: His passer rating was in the top 10 once. Same as Tyrod Taylor. Nobody whose passer rating is consistently in the top 20 or 30, which is where he consistently was, is a top10 QB. Expand On 4/14/2020 at 1:56 AM, FireChans said: What’s your definition of “most years.” This is like defining after the fact. Expand But what was Newton’s drop %? ? one thing I hate is double standards. A lot of the posters trying to dismiss guys like Newton and Jackson, yet fall all over themselves trying to make excuses for Allen. 1
Shaw66 Posted April 14, 2020 Posted April 14, 2020 On 4/14/2020 at 1:56 AM, FireChans said: What’s your definition of “most years.” This is like defining after the fact. Expand You seem to be having trouble understanding this. The best QBs in the league have good passer ratings. They often are in the top 10. Most of their seasons. Newton was in the top 10 once. That is not most. That is not close to most. That is once. Tyrod Taylor was in the top 10 once. Spend a little time looking at the stats.
Lieutenant Aldo Raine Posted April 14, 2020 Posted April 14, 2020 On 4/14/2020 at 1:58 AM, C.Biscuit97 said: Jackson had a better completion % and td passes this year than any season of Vick’s career. He also was a better passer in college. And who are his studs? A 2nd year TE who was so valued he was drafted in the 3rd round? A Rookie receiver who missed half of the year? Willie Snead? You guys works so hard fo try and discredit Jackson. People would kill for Allen to have that season. But what was Newton’s drop %? ? one thing I hate is double standards. A lot of the posters trying to dismiss guys like Newton and Jackson, yet fall all over themselves trying to make excuses for Allen. Expand You sure love to dog Allen against Jackson. I wonder why????? hmmm
njbuff Posted April 14, 2020 Posted April 14, 2020 (edited) On 4/14/2020 at 1:58 AM, C.Biscuit97 said: Jackson had a better completion % and td passes this year than any season of Vick’s career. He also was a better passer in college. And who are his studs? A 2nd year TE who was so valued he was drafted in the 3rd round? A Rookie receiver who missed half of the year? Willie Snead? You guys works so hard fo try and discredit Jackson. People would kill for Allen to have that season. Expand I am not discrediting Jackson. Vick has something that Jackson has failed to do after his first two years.............. Vick has a playoff win (in GB to boot), while Jackson does not. And Jackson lost with at great team AT HOME. That is a major red flag right now, until he actually wins in the playoffs. Two AWFUL home playoff losses aren't discrediting Jackson. It is just stating facts. Until Jackson carries his team to a conference championship game like Vick did, there is no debating here. Vick was the better passer than Jackson is now. But Jackson is only 23 and has a great support system. He can win big in the playoffs if he improves as a passer. The jury is still out on that though in a big way. Edited April 14, 2020 by njbuff 1
longtimebillsfan Posted April 14, 2020 Author Posted April 14, 2020 On 4/14/2020 at 12:23 AM, billsfan_34 said: Try not to get your bell rung in the playoffs and run around like you just took 3 hits of acid. That right there still haunts me! Expand Your analysis is cutting edge. 1
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 14, 2020 Posted April 14, 2020 On 4/14/2020 at 2:06 AM, njbuff said: I am not discrediting Jackson. Vick has something that Jackson has failed to do after his first two years.............. Vick has a playoff win (in GB to boot), while Jackson does not. And Jackson lost with at great team AT HOME. That is a major red flag right now, until he actually wins in the playoffs. Two AWFUL home playoff losses aren't discrediting Jackson. It is just stating facts. Until Jackson carries his team to a conference championship game like Vick did, there is no debating here. Vick was the better passer than Jackson is now. But Jackson is only 23 and has a great support system. He can win big in the playoffs if he improves as a passer. The jury is still out on that though in a big way. Expand Major red flag? I think you’re over stating things big time. Also, that Ravens offense is not loaded with all pros. I don’t think one of their skill players ever made a pro bowl before last. maybe and this is crazy but Jackson is good and young. And maybe he had a bad game (with 400 yards). On 4/14/2020 at 2:03 AM, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said: You sure love to dog Allen against Jackson. I wonder why????? hmmm Expand Tell me why think that is? I’m genuinely curious because I’m sure it is dumb. but yeah, I find it kinda crazy that Bills put down a league MVP (put Cam in there too) while finding every excuse for Allen. These guys have been better players on every level than Allen, against much harder competition. Yet, a lot of fans poke holes in their games while propping Allen up. It’s disingenuous. and this isn’t even a knock on Allen to say he’s not as good as league MVPs. 1
Lieutenant Aldo Raine Posted April 14, 2020 Posted April 14, 2020 (edited) On 4/14/2020 at 2:16 AM, C.Biscuit97 said: Major red flag? I think you’re over stating things big time. Also, that Ravens offense is not loaded with all pros. I don’t think one of their skill players ever made a pro bowl before last. maybe and this is crazy but Jackson is good and young. And maybe he had a bad game (with 400 yards). Tell me why think that is? I’m genuinely curious because I’m sure it is dumb. but yeah, I find it kinda crazy that Bills put down a league MVP (put Cam in there too) while finding every excuse for Allen. These guys have been better players on every level than Allen, against much harder competition. Yet, a lot of fans poke holes in their games while propping Allen up. It’s disingenuous. and this isn’t even a knock on Allen to say he’s not as good as league MVPs. Expand Because you are obviously a huge fan of those players and you will go to great lengths to defend them, even at the expense of your own QB in Buffalo. Yet you mock those who look at Allen in the same vain you look at Jackson and Cam Newtwon (as fans of the player). What is that personally bugs you about Allen so much? Like, it completely irks you that he is a Buffalo Bill. Edited April 14, 2020 by Lieutenant Aldo Raine 1 1
njbuff Posted April 14, 2020 Posted April 14, 2020 On 4/14/2020 at 2:16 AM, C.Biscuit97 said: Major red flag? I think you’re over stating things big time. Also, that Ravens offense is not loaded with all pros. I don’t think one of their skill players ever made a pro bowl before last. maybe and this is crazy but Jackson is good and young. And maybe he had a bad game (with 400 yards). Tell me why think that is? I’m genuinely curious because I’m sure it is dumb. but yeah, I find it kinda crazy that Bills put down a league MVP (put Cam in there too) while finding every excuse for Allen. These guys have been better players on every level than Allen, against much harder competition. Yet, a lot of fans poke holes in their games while propping Allen up. It’s disingenuous. and this isn’t even a knock on Allen to say he’s not as good as league MVPs. Expand That destroys your theory right there. Do you think Ravens fans care about him getting 400 yards? Did he lead his team to more points than the Titans? What will Ravens fans answer to this question be? And did I EVER mention Allen in the argument? Point is, since you brought Allen into this debate between Vick and Jackson, BOTH QB's (Allen and Jackson) have a long way to go to be winners when it matters most. Is this a knock? No Only the future can answer these questions.
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 14, 2020 Posted April 14, 2020 On 4/14/2020 at 2:29 AM, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said: Because you are obviously a huge fan of those players and you will go to great lengths to defend them, even at the expense of your own QB in Buffalo. Yet you mock those who look at Allen in the same vain you look at Jackson and Cam Newtwon (as fans of the player). What is that personally bugs you about Allen so much? Like, it completely irks you that he is a Buffalo Bill. Expand I have no idea what you’re rambling. Think about what you just wrote. I’m having to defend the league’s MVP? You don’t realize how crazy that sounds. All the while we are touting a guy who has never hit 60% on any level and has passed for under 200 yards/ game so far in his career. if anyone takes that as a slight to Allen, it’s insane. Yes, I don’t think Allen is as good as league MVPs. At this point, on any level of football including Allen playing against much easier competition, has he ever been better than Jackson or Newton. This isn’t opinion. It is fact that only Bills fans don’t understand (I get it, we’re fanatics). I’ve grown to love Allen and his attitude. But at some point, you need to stop being potential. Guys like Jackson and Newton have dominated several levels of football. Allen has never done that. So I do find wild that some fans find ways to knock Jackson and Newton. 1 1
FireChans Posted April 14, 2020 Posted April 14, 2020 On 4/14/2020 at 2:02 AM, Shaw66 said: You seem to be having trouble understanding this. The best QBs in the league have good passer ratings. They often are in the top 10. Most of their seasons. Newton was in the top 10 once. That is not most. That is not close to most. That is once. Tyrod Taylor was in the top 10 once. Spend a little time looking at the stats. Expand How many MVP’s did Taylor win? How many bad QBs have won MVP? You literally stink at this. 1
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 14, 2020 Posted April 14, 2020 On 4/14/2020 at 2:36 AM, njbuff said: That destroys your theory right there. Do you think Ravens fans care about him getting 400 yards? Did he lead his team to more points than the Titans? What will Ravens fans answer to this question be? And did I EVER mention Allen in the argument? Point is, since you brought Allen into this debate between Vick and Jackson, BOTH QB's (Allen and Jackson) have a long way to go to be winners when it matters most. Is this a knock? No Only the future can answer these questions. Expand The point of the 400 yards is the Ravens constantly were moving the ball against the Titans. I think they were in Titans territory 8 times. They shoot themselves in the foot and that’s on them. But it wasn’t like the Titans were shutting them down. 1
njbuff Posted April 14, 2020 Posted April 14, 2020 On 4/14/2020 at 2:38 AM, C.Biscuit97 said: The point of the 400 yards is the Ravens constantly were moving the ball against the Titans. I think they were in Titans territory 8 times. They shoot themselves in the foot and that’s on them. But it wasn’t like the Titans were shutting them down. Expand That's my point. Who cares if you move the ball up and down the field when you don't score points and that is on Jackson just as much as everyone else on the Ravens. The Ravens are chokers until proven otherwise and Jackson is their QB. It seems like only you care about the yards.
Lieutenant Aldo Raine Posted April 14, 2020 Posted April 14, 2020 On 4/14/2020 at 2:37 AM, C.Biscuit97 said: I have no idea what you’re rambling. Think about what you just wrote. I’m having to defend the league’s MVP? You don’t realize how crazy that sounds. All the while we are touting a guy who has never hit 60% on any level and has passed for under 200 yards/ game so far in his career. if anyone takes that as a slight to Allen, it’s insane. Yes, I don’t think Allen is as good as league MVPs. At this point, on any level of football including Allen playing against much easier competition, has he ever been better than Jackson or Newton. This isn’t opinion. It is fact that only Bills fans don’t understand (I get it, we’re fanatics). I’ve grown to love Allen and his attitude. But at some point, you need to stop being potential. Guys like Jackson and Newton have dominated several levels of football. Allen has never done that. So I do find wild that some fans find ways to knock Jackson and Newton. Expand I'm not rambling. You hide your motivation in your deception. You can fool some, but I'm not fooled.
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 14, 2020 Posted April 14, 2020 On 4/14/2020 at 2:41 AM, njbuff said: That's my point. Who cares if you move the ball up and down the field when you don't score points and that is on Jackson just as much as everyone else on the Ravens. The Ravens are chokers until proven otherwise and Jackson is their QB. It seems like only you care about the yards. Expand Yup, they had maybe their worst game of the season. Do I think that discounts everything else he did last year? absolutely not. He was the best player in the nfl. On 4/14/2020 at 2:42 AM, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said: I'm not rambling. You hide your motivation in your deception. You can fool some, but I'm not fooled. Expand Are you Alex Jones? My argument: Allen isn’t as good as MVPs and it makes no sense to put them down in comparison to Allen. Have a great night conspiracy guy. 1
Shaw66 Posted April 14, 2020 Posted April 14, 2020 On 4/14/2020 at 2:38 AM, FireChans said: How many MVP’s did Taylor win? How many bad QBs have won MVP? You literally stink at this. Expand Ha ha ha! That's hysterical. Bye.
Lieutenant Aldo Raine Posted April 14, 2020 Posted April 14, 2020 On 4/14/2020 at 2:54 AM, C.Biscuit97 said: Yup, they had maybe their worst game of the season. Do I think that discounts everything else he did last year? absolutely not. He was the best player in the nfl. Are you Alex Jones? My argument: Allen isn’t as good as MVPs and it makes no sense to put them down in comparison to Allen. Have a great night conspiracy guy. Expand Why do you take it personal when people criticize Newton and Jackson? They’re not Bills players. Why is it so personal for you to dog Allen compared to them? Why? Because you have personal motivations.
FireChans Posted April 14, 2020 Posted April 14, 2020 On 4/14/2020 at 3:18 AM, Shaw66 said: Ha ha ha! That's hysterical. Bye. Expand Can you answer? How many bad QB’s have won an MVP? 1
njbuff Posted April 14, 2020 Posted April 14, 2020 (edited) On 4/14/2020 at 2:54 AM, C.Biscuit97 said: Yup, they had maybe their worst game of the season. Do I think that discounts everything else he did last year? absolutely not. He was the best player in the nfl. Are you Alex Jones? My argument: Allen isn’t as good as MVPs and it makes no sense to put them down in comparison to Allen. Have a great night conspiracy guy. Expand Not when it mattered most. Jackson is Steve Young before he won the SB. Young won the MVP in 1992 on 14-2 only to fall flat in the playoffs. Then he went on to win the MVP in 1994 and the SB. Let's see if Jackson can follow the same path. And Jackson could have reached his peak as an NFL player. We don't know that yet. We shall see. Edited April 14, 2020 by njbuff
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