716er Posted August 26, 2020 Share Posted August 26, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, LB3 said: Emperor Cuomo is none too happy with the CDC. Nor is every scientist/healthcare professional commenting on the CDC changes. I have been trying to find since I learned of the changes this afternoon... what is the scientific rationale for not testing potential asymptomatic cases? Edited August 26, 2020 by 716er 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBBills Posted August 26, 2020 Share Posted August 26, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figster Posted August 26, 2020 Share Posted August 26, 2020 (edited) 52 minutes ago, 716er said: Nor is every scientist/healthcare professional commenting on the CDC changes. I have been trying to find since I learned of the changes this afternoon... what is the scientific rationale for not testing asymptomatic cases? Asymptomatic case describes someone having Covid 19 without displaying symptoms. Trying to test someone who is not showing any indication they have Covid 19 is a test and time better spent on someone showing symptoms wouldn't you agree? Coming into close contact for over 15 minutes with someone who now has Covid 19 from a testing stand point is not enough reason IMO. Edited August 26, 2020 by Figster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
716er Posted August 26, 2020 Share Posted August 26, 2020 3 minutes ago, Figster said: Trying to test someone who is not showing any indication they have Covid 19 is a test and time better spent on someone showing symptoms wouldn't you agree? I think mass testing regardless of symptoms (If there are not enough tests, that's another story) is the best way to trace and isolate all positive cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figster Posted August 26, 2020 Share Posted August 26, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, 716er said: I think mass testing regardless of symptoms (If there are not enough tests, that's another story) is the best way to trace and isolate all positive cases. If you think you may have Covid 19, quarantine. Its not the cold or flu season. If everyone would just isolate themselves when they have it the world would be a safer place. Edited August 26, 2020 by Figster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
716er Posted August 26, 2020 Share Posted August 26, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Figster said: If you think you have it Covid 19 quarantine. Its not the flu or cold season and If everyone would just isolate themselves when they have it tthe world would be a safer place. Of course. Asymptomatic patients spread the virus as well, correct? The same CDC who changed the recommendations today claims that ~40% of the cases are asymptomatic. The more of those cases that are not caught, traced, and isolated, the more cases the country will have in general from spread. Maybe I'm reading the whole thing wrong? Edited August 26, 2020 by 716er 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figster Posted August 26, 2020 Share Posted August 26, 2020 (edited) 30 minutes ago, 716er said: Of course. Asymptomatic patients spread the virus as well, correct? The same CDA who changed the recommendations today claims that ~40% of the cases are asymptomatic. The more of those cases that are not caught, traced, and isolated, the more cases the country will have in general from spread. Maybe I'm reading the whole thing wrong? We're talking about two different things here. The CDC doesn't want to test someone who has not shown symptoms. Asymptomatic case or patient refers to someone who has Covid 19 without displaying symptoms. If you follow what I'm saying. Edited August 26, 2020 by Figster 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
716er Posted August 26, 2020 Share Posted August 26, 2020 10 minutes ago, Figster said: We're talking about two different things here. The CDC doesn't want to test someone who has not shown symptoms vs Asymptomatic patient/case. Asymptomatic case or patient is someone who has tested positive without displaying symptoms. If you follow what I'm saying. I got it - thanks for the clarification - I could have worded it much better. I updated my previous post to try and make it more clear. I guess I am trying to understand the scientific rationale from the CDC's perspective to stop testing those who have not shown symptoms, especially when tests are readily available. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figster Posted August 26, 2020 Share Posted August 26, 2020 (edited) 32 minutes ago, 716er said: I got it - thanks for the clarification - I could have worded it much better. I updated my previous post to try and make it more clear. I guess I am trying to understand the scientific rationale from the CDC's perspective to stop testing those who have not shown symptoms, especially when tests are readily available. Naturally getting the test results back ASAP is of the most importance. Much more so for people who are sneezing and coughing/ spreading the virus. Slowing everything down with people not showing symptoms doesn't make much sense IMO Edited August 26, 2020 by Figster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan4 Posted August 26, 2020 Share Posted August 26, 2020 (edited) 8 hours ago, 716er said: New CDC guidelines advise people without symptoms probably do not need to be tested even if they have been in close contact with an infected person. Scientifically, what is the logic in this? I would love to believe it has nothing to do with politics. good! Edited August 27, 2020 by BillsFan4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan4 Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/even-with-a-vaccine-the-economy-could-take-many-months-to-return-to-normal/ ‘Even With A Vaccine, The Economy Could Take Many Months To Return To Normal‘ Quote Once we find a COVID-19 vaccine, our lives can return to normal, right? Economists don’t think so. Even if the vast majority of the population become immune to the coronavirus tomorrow, leading economists think it could take six months or more before our economy is back to where it was before the pandemic hit. And if a smaller share of the population became immune, economists think returning to economic normalcy would likely take more than a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warcodered Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 9 hours ago, 716er said: New CDC guidelines advise people without symptoms probably do not need to be tested even if they have been in close contact with an infected person. Scientifically, what is the logic in this? I would love to believe it has nothing to do with politics. I don't really get this it's like you're just giving up on containing this at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
716er Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 9 hours ago, Warcodered said: I don't really get this it's like you're just giving up on containing this at all. Still waiting for the scientific explanation behind it. The fact that Fauci was under anesthesia during the meeting this policy was decided in is pretty fishy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figster Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 (edited) 8 hours ago, 716er said: Still waiting for the scientific explanation behind it. The fact that Fauci was under anesthesia during the meeting this policy was decided in is pretty fishy. The scientific explanation is obvious IMO. No symptoms, then why test? You are asking thousands of people that don't feel sick to get tested. People are reluctant enough to get tested when they are sick. You can't force people to get tested. If you want to test people without symptoms wouldn't it make better sense to monitor people on the front lines serving our community? My home state of Pa by way of example has tested almost a million and a half citizens to find a little under 127,000 confirmed cases. Seems like an excessive amount of testing right? It works out to about 1 in every 12 people have tested positive. Its not the cold or flu season. Covid 19 symptoms are fairly obvious. So why did we have so many people testing negative for Covid 19? Testing people without symptoms was not helping the situation IMO. Edited August 27, 2020 by Figster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 3 hours ago, Figster said: The scientific explanation is obvious IMO. No symptoms, then why test? Because unsymptomatic people (pre-symptomatic and those who never show symptoms) who are Covid positive are THE MOST DANGEROUS of all, when it comes to the spreading of the virus. That's why! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figster Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 (edited) 52 minutes ago, The Dean said: Because unsymptomatic people (pre-symptomatic and those who never show symptoms) who are Covid positive are THE MOST DANGEROUS of all, when it comes to the spreading of the virus. That's why! We're not talking about people that have Covid 19 and don't show symptoms. We're talking about people who came into contact with a confirmed Covid 19 carrier for 15 minutes or longer. A big percentage of which never catch the virus. I also tend to disagree with someone who has Covid 19 without symptoms being the most dangerous. They don't sneeeze, they don't cough and If all the guidelines are followed. Social distancing, mask wearing, I'm not sure how from a general public standpoint it makes them any more dangerous then your typical carrier displaying all the symptoms. With all due respect Dean Edited August 27, 2020 by Figster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
716er Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 2 hours ago, Figster said: We're not talking about people that have Covid 19 and don't show symptoms. We're talking about people who came into contact with a confirmed Covid 19 carrier for 15 minutes or longer. A big percentage of which never catch the virus. I also tend to disagree with someone who has Covid 19 without symptoms being the most dangerous. They don't sneeeze, they don't cough and If all the guidelines are followed. Social distancing, mask wearing, I'm not sure how from a general public standpoint it makes them any more dangerous then your typical carrier displaying all the symptoms. With all due respect Dean A third of the country has allergies and is going to be sneezing non-stop for the next few months. 3 hours ago, The Dean said: Because unsymptomatic people (pre-symptomatic and those who never show symptoms) who are Covid positive are THE MOST DANGEROUS of all, when it comes to the spreading of the virus. That's why! Agree with this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted August 28, 2020 Author Share Posted August 28, 2020 On 8/26/2020 at 1:30 PM, Figster said: Asymptomatic case describes someone having Covid 19 without displaying symptoms. Trying to test someone who is not showing any indication they have Covid 19 is a test and time better spent on someone showing symptoms wouldn't you agree? Coming into close contact for over 15 minutes with someone who now has Covid 19 from a testing stand point is not enough reason IMO. No, I would not agree. More to the point neither does eminent scientist and former CDC head Tom Frieden https://threader.app/thread/1298652748347564036 https://www.medicaldaily.com/experts-critical-cdc-changes-covid-testing-guidelines-455636 One could argue if someone has symptoms, they know they should isolate until symptom free then beyond for a specified length of time. The problem of covid-19 transmission is the asymptomatic person who has a risk of having covid-19 - they had close contact with a diagnosed person for a significant amount of time - but they may be infected without knowing because no symptoms. They need to be tested and isolated if infected to break the transmission chains. Also, for the CDC to discuss and implement a significant policy change while Dr Fauci is literally under general anesthesia having surgery is chickenshit beyond belief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted August 28, 2020 Author Share Posted August 28, 2020 3 hours ago, Figster said: We're not talking about people that have Covid 19 and don't show symptoms. We're talking about people who came into contact with a confirmed Covid 19 carrier for 15 minutes or longer. A big percentage of which never catch the virus. I also tend to disagree with someone who has Covid 19 without symptoms being the most dangerous. They don't sneeeze, they don't cough and If all the guidelines are followed. Social distancing, mask wearing, I'm not sure how from a general public standpoint it makes them any more dangerous then your typical carrier displaying all the symptoms. With all due respect Dean First of all, sneezing is not a typical symptom of covid-19 Coughing is a symptom in about 60-70% of symptomatic patients - meaning it's not a symptom in 30-40% of symptomatic patients But that's a sidepoint. One need not sneeze nor cough to propel droplets and aerosols. One does so when one talks, sings, shouts, even exhales forcefully as when running. So then the question is: do asymptomatic or presymptomatic people have as much or more viral titer than symptomatic people such that they would be able to expel infectious particles by talking, singing, shouting, exhaling forcefully as when breathing hard (running) or sure, coughing? The answer is Yes. Yes, they do. If you have symptoms, the Cluebird may land and tell you "Stay Home! Get tested!". If you're asymptomatic, you literally have No Clue. Testing asymptomatic people day 3-5 post exposure to a covid-19 positive contact is the only way to identify these people and break the transmission chains. Asymptomatic and presymptomatic transmission are literally the reason covid-19 is so much more difficult to contain than a disease that basically flattens everyone who's contagious 14 hours ago, 716er said: Still waiting for the scientific explanation behind it. The fact that Fauci was under anesthesia during the meeting this policy was decided in is pretty fishy. Apparently Fauci, Tom Frieden, and others join you in still waiting for that scientific explanation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted August 28, 2020 Author Share Posted August 28, 2020 3 hours ago, Figster said: We're not talking about people that have Covid 19 and don't show symptoms. We're talking about people who came into contact with a confirmed Covid 19 carrier for 15 minutes or longer. A big percentage of which never catch the virus. Right, but to break the transmission chain, you must identify those who do 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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