Covid-19 discussion and humor thread [Was: CDC says don't touch your face to avoid Covid19...Vets to the rescue!

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, SinceThe70s said:

 

 

I'm interested in thoughts on best practices for school re-opening. I live on Long Island with two high schoolers. At a high level, our school district is doing the following. They delayed opening by three days to September 10, so still time for refactoring. Half the kids are going Monday/Thursday, the other half Tuesday/Friday, Wednesday is a full online day with normal periods/teachers but also an overflow day when here's a holiday (i.e - Columbus Day). The other remote days are asynchronous learning. Every desk will have a plexiglas barrier in the front and on the right. Face masks are required all day (except lunch which will be social distanced). A lot more detail to the plan, but that's what stuck out for me.

 

We're sending our kids, but we opted out of the bus. Wifey and I are fortunate enough to take on that burden since we'll be working from home for the foreseeable future. I think around 10-15% of parents are opting for 100% remote learning. By contrast my company had less than 10% willing to return to the office for less than 5 days/week and the stipulation we had to wear face masks all day.

 

 

Couple thoughts:

1) How are they handling different kids having different classes? 

The daycares that operated successfully for children of essential workers during the peak of the NYC pandemic operated in pods - 8-9 kids with a single teacher in the same room.
This is a straightforward model for grade or middle school but gets harder at the HS level where some kids in the same grade are taking algebra while others are taking Precalculus, some are taking US History while others AP US History. 

The issue is if kids are moving from classroom to classroom, it maximizes the potential for contamination and for exposures from a single infection.

 

2) If kids are moving from classroom to classroom, how are they handling between-class movement?

[SinceThe70s]

35 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Couple thoughts:

1) How are they handling different kids having different classes? 

The daycares that operated successfully for children of essential workers during the peak of the NYC pandemic operated in pods - 8-9 kids with a single teacher in the same room.
This is a straightforward model for grade or middle school but gets harder at the HS level where some kids in the same grade are taking algebra while others are taking Precalculus, some are taking US History while others AP US History. 

The issue is if kids are moving from classroom to classroom, it maximizes the potential for contamination and for exposures from a single infection.

 

2) If kids are moving from classroom to classroom, how are they handling between-class movement?

 

1) Not sure, schedules haven't come out yet. The student body was split A-K, L-Z to keep siblings on the same daily schedule but it's a legit concern that they can't limit the interactions beyond that. The plexiglas attempts to mitigate that. Wearing masks in class came afterwards as an added precaution

 

2) #1 is there's half the number of students. Past that, they are supposed to wear face masks all day. Original plan was face masks when you're moving, no face masks in the classroom - but they backed off on that now it's facemasks all day - question is how well it will be enforced. There will be traffic patterns  set up in the odd-shaped building and teachers monitoring traffic. To be honest, I think that's a joke and I'm putting my money on my kids in masks (and yeah I get the mask is for you not me - but personally I think it helps mitigate the risk )

[Bill from NYC]

On ‎8‎/‎19‎/‎2020 at 9:07 PM, shoshin said:

The inability of people to engage in civil discourse is one of society’s real challenges Right now. I’ve done nothing to insult you. You have insulted me. I’ve tried to engage you on this side issue about your hypothetical and personalizing public policy. You refuse to talk about it. 
 

As it is, you say you didn’t read my post, which is highly unlikely. But if you did, you’d see that I answered your hypothetical even though it has no place in a public policy discussion. I did that just to see if you’d keep talking about the public policy issue we are discussing since you say you care about it. 

 

I am happy to keep discussing issues with you. You can keep being insulting and call me names. I won’t reciprocate. But you should keep working to stay engaged. Taking your ball and going home is what too many people do. 
 

Yeah, he insulted you right off the bat, and does so even after you (and I) wished his family well and hoped that necessary accomodations were made for them. 

Once again I ask, are teachers "essential" workers, or do their unions (not most individual teachers) just want the great benefits, insane vacations, and big pay raises?

 

https://www.oann.com/u-s-teachers-added-to-essential-worker-list-as-they-face-white-house-pressure-to-return-to-classrooms/

Edited August 21, 2020 by Bill from NYC

[Bill from NYC]

On 8/19/2020 at 11:04 PM, Limeaid said:

 

In some areas like ours schools are providing pick up of meals for breakfast and lunch including summer; they also are having bus drivers carry meals to bus stops where normally kids get on.  Fairfax County (10th biggest school system in country) is going all virtual Q1 of 2020-2021 like they did Q4 of 2019-2020 largely due to pressure from teachers despite poor ratings of online program in Q4.  And this is a school system which is considered prosperous.  

Interesting. I wonder how many people will not be out there to pick up the food. You can't just leave it there either for danger of some sick **** tampering with it. 

There is no way around the fact that we need teachers to help us in these troubled times. 

[Patrick Duffy]

2 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

Yeah, he insulted you right off the bat, and does so even after you (and I) wish his family well and hoped that necessary accomodations were made for them. 

Once again I ask, are teachers "essential" workers, or do their unions (not most individual teachers) just want the great benefits, insane vacations, and big pay raises?

 

https://www.oann.com/u-s-teachers-added-to-essential-worker-list-as-they-face-white-house-pressure-to-return-to-classrooms/

Once again, I insulted his way of thinking. Until you realize that some areas just can't go to in-person schooling safely right now when you want them to []. Not all these schools have the $$ and assets to put in all this safety equipment etc.

 

Also you are again assuming teachers get the "big bux", I can assure that a lot of them don't. Maybe in the big cities and in some states, but most teachers don't get paid nearly enough. And insane vacations lol, yeah a lot doesn't get those either, and LOL at big pay raises. The state we live in doesn't even recognize my wifes masters.

 

They pay the same as if she didn't have it( which is a reason why we are trying to leave NC). So not all these teachers got it made like you think.

 

 

 

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/schools-open-coronavirus-pandemic-doctor-163621256.html

 

 

Edited August 21, 2020 by Hapless Bills Fan

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

Interesting. I wonder how many people will not be out there to pick up the food. You can't just leave it there either for danger of some sick **** tampering with it. 

There is no way around the fact that we need teachers to help us in these troubled times. 

 

I'm sure there are some kids whose families do not bother to come out to pick up the food (but who do send their kid to school where they get fed because someone would follow up on truancy).   OTOH there are families (in MO anyway, where it's trivial to do) who claim they are homeschooling so that they don't have to be bothered sending their kids to school so those kids fall through the cracks with hunger as well. 

It's not a perfect system either way.   You're right about the need to "come out to pick up the food", at the pickup points here it's available for 1 hr in the am and 1 hr at lunch, it's not left.  They don't ask questions - one kid can show up and pick up 4 meals, one adult can show up and get food.  I've seen people I'm pretty sure are homeless taking a meal to eat for themselves.  The people prepping the food just make some extra to account for that (it's a volunteer effort, not gov't funded).

[Note TWIMC: this is not intended as a blank critique of homeschooling, many of our relatives homeschool, dedicate substantial family income to buying curricula and materials and substantial parent time, and do as good or better job than the public schools.  But the "homeschool" label does get exploited by parents who just don't GAF or who have good intentions but don't know how to implement them]

[Bill from NYC]

I don't think that he was demanding that each and every school has to immediately go back to full time, in person education right this second. There certainly is a middle ground. I'm sure almost everyone can see this.

 

As for teacher's salaries, you explained the situation where you are, and I believe you.

 

On Long Island, top pay public school teachers make roughly 4x as much, and are demanding more. The system on Long Island reeks of corruption. For example, there is 1 Board of Education/School District in NYC. In Nassau and Suffolk Counties (Long Island) there are 125 districts, each with a school board. These boards are for the most part made up of teachers from other districts, and wannabe politicians who are elected to office by funds provided by teachers unions. They decide teacher's salaries.

 

The large number of districts helps to keep the schools segregated. The situation is corrupt and vile, and I only scratched the surface.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

9 hours ago, SinceThe70s said:

 

1) Not sure, schedules haven't come out yet. The student body was split A-K, L-Z to keep siblings on the same daily schedule but it's a legit concern that they can't limit the interactions beyond that. The plexiglas attempts to mitigate that. Wearing masks in class came afterwards as an added precaution

 

2) #1 is there's half the number of students. Past that, they are supposed to wear face masks all day. Original plan was face masks when you're moving, no face masks in the classroom - but they backed off on that now it's facemasks all day - question is how well it will be enforced. There will be traffic patterns  set up in the odd-shaped building and teachers monitoring traffic. To be honest, I think that's a joke and I'm putting my money on my kids in masks (and yeah I get the mask is for you not me - but personally I think it helps mitigate the risk )

 

So the schools/camps with the worst outbreaks, either don't wear masks at all or don't enforce.  For example in the high school in Jerusalem with the most horrid outbreak, the families complained it was "inhumane" to ask the kids to wear masks all day and have the windows open in hot weather and unnecessary because they 'beat covid".  So they shut the windows, turned on the A/C, dropped the mask requirement, and BOOM outbreak.

 

I believe you're correct that the paper masks are somewhat protective.

 

I think the HS my kid attended is doing a form of video learning for different classes.  The kids stay in one area and do their videos and there are teachers who stay with them and try to help answer questions and move the learning forward, then there are distanced "office hours" where kids can go to get specialized help.  It works better for subjects where most teachers have some understanding, like algebra or US history or basic science, vs. foreign language or multivariable calculus or AP physics C.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

15 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

I don't think that he was demanding that each and every school has to immediately go back to full time, in person education right this second. There certainly is a middle ground. I'm sure almost everyone can see this.

 

I can't speak for the intentions of the OP on this topic, but in some cases the demand from government officials has been just that thing.

 

You probably won't like the source, but I thought this was a fairly balanced take on the problem:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/23/sunday-review/reopening-schools-coronavirus.html

The real problem is that school reopening wasn't attacked nationwide as a serious logistical and budgetary problem,  a couple months back.  I truly believe that if local school districts had been connected with a network of people who did "get it done" to learn from and consult with, such as those running the emergency child care, and promised the support they needed be it extra masks, sanitizer, rental of tents for outside learning, whatever it is.....we could do it. 

Example: Cornell U started working on a reopening plan the moment the last finals ended in May.  After a month of butt-breaking work by a committee to reopen, they came up with a plan, including modeling of how often they had to test whom and how many people would get sick, how many required hospitalization, how that would be accomodated in tiny Ithaca.  I give their plan maybe 70% chance.  But if they didn't have expertise - infectious disease experts, modelers, people with boots on the ground measuring classrooms and others going around saying "OK we can repurpose THIS and THIS and THIS space" - plus expertise and equipment from the vet school to run an extensive testing program in house - it would never have gotten off the ground.

 

OTOH, I truly believe that if there were a coordinate national plan, we could be where Germany or Austria or Switzerland are right now, and it would be less of an issue.

 

But there's been an implicit assumption all along that the covid-19 epidemic would just fade away, therefore coordinate and effective action across state lines was unneeded.

[Bill from NYC]

8 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

OTOH, I truly believe that if there were a coordinate national plan, we could be where Germany or Austria or Switzerland are right now, and it would be less of an issue.

 

Just seeking some clarity.....do you think that all of the dictatorial governors would have been just fine with a set of rules laid down by our president and would not have opposed a federal policy for political gain?

If so, that seems a bit idealistic but that's just me being me lol.

[Punching Bag]

4 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

Interesting. I wonder how many people will not be out there to pick up the food. You can't just leave it there either for danger of some sick **** tampering with it. 

There is no way around the fact that we need teachers to help us in these troubled times. 

 

No food is being left out  - the bus drivers have assistants to hand them out.  At the schools they are also handing them out outside the buildings at covered stations.  Schools are closed Q1 and if it continues not sure what they will do when it gets cold here.

[Punching Bag]

 

Right now they are "repurposing" food service personal and drivers to help in other tasks.  Supposedly they are going to do it according to workers skills and my wife got a survey she needed to fill out on what skills she has.  Since he had run a business before and was a bookkeeper before she came to US she has a lot of skills most of her workers do not have.  Many barely speak English and most work the job just for the benefits with other jobs in restaurants and other businesses after they work lunch. 

[Patrick Duffy]

My wifes district decided to go with a "B" plan where half is online and half is in-person. However, the surrounding counties in our area (which have a lot less cases) are doing the 1st 9 weeks online. Boggles my mind why my wifes district didn't start that way also with way more cases.

 

In any event, as of yesterday (day 4 of school) 3 students and 1 teacher have already tested positive. This school gave each teacher 5 mask, and some make shift "sanitizer" in a spray bottle you get from dollar store. When those 5 mask run out you have to come out of your own pocket to get more. There is no plexi-glass or other protective equipment, just 5 mask and 1 spray bottle. Again in this area where we are she makes 33,000/yr. So you tell me how she and other teachers will be able to continuously come out of pocket for protective things when people like us are barely getting by with 2 kids of our own.

 

Just an example of how some of these schools don't have the assets (so they say). Which is why I say a lot of these areas with these problems and also still eat up with cases have no business doing full in-person schooling until it can be done absolutely safely and right now in those areas it just can't.

 

Edited August 21, 2020 by Patrick_Duffy

[Patrick Duffy]

1 hour ago, Limeaid said:

 

Right now they are "repurposing" food service personal and drivers to help in other tasks.  Supposedly they are going to do it according to workers skills and my wife got a survey she needed to fill out on what skills she has.  Since he had run a business before and was a bookkeeper before she came to US she has a lot of skills most of her workers do not have.  Many barely speak English and most work the job just for the benefits with other jobs in restaurants and other businesses after they work lunch. 

They were doing that in the counties in my are also, then a few of the volunteers ended up catching it from doing that. So it's just a tough situation all around. 

[Punching Bag]

39 minutes ago, Patrick_Duffy said:

My wifes district decided to go with a "B" plan where half is online and half is in-person. However, the surrounding counties in our area (which have a lot less cases) are doing the 1st 9 weeks online. Boggles my mind why my wifes district didn't start that way also with way more cases.

 

 

Our schools were supposed to go live 2 days a week with option for more if not enough parents signed them up to go to school with a parents survey but not enough teachers agreed to go back to school so they went to online again.  Teachers also suggested that they be given raises and if not enough money in budget lay off non-teachers but union which includes those non-teachers rejected request.

[Patrick Duffy]

9 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

Our schools were supposed to go live 2 days a week with option for more if not enough parents signed them up to go to school with a parents survey but not enough teachers agreed to go back to school so they went to online again.  Teachers also suggested that they be given raises and if not enough money in budget lay off non-teachers but union which includes those non-teachers rejected request.

Yeah I don't think they should lay off any of them. Teachers work load has nearly tripled with the way things are being done in some places. They need all the help they can get. Guess it depends on where you are and how that state/districts are handling things.

Edited August 21, 2020 by Patrick_Duffy

[Hapless Bills Fan]

11 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

Just seeking some clarity.....do you think that all of the dictatorial governors would have been just fine with a set of rules laid down by our president and would not have opposed a federal policy for political gain?

If so, that seems a bit idealistic but that's just me being me lol.

What I think we needed, you would probably call a “dictatorial plan by public health officials”

 

I mean, who came up with the plan those “dictatorial governors” followed?  And which was more successful in controlling Covid so far - the plana that “stayed the course”, or the ones that fluttered in response to political pressure?

 

Im sure there would have been strident opposition.  That’s why Rule #1 in the Pandemic Playbook the US wrote (and discarded) is “put an epidemiologist In charge and let them be the voice; politicians step back”.  The idea is that a public health problem is first and foremost, a communications problem, and that it needs to be de-politicized as much as possible.  
 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

9 hours ago, Patrick_Duffy said:

They were doing that in the counties in my are also, then a few of the volunteers ended up catching it from doing that. So it's just a tough situation all around. 

 

We had that same situation here.  At least one bus driver who was handing out meals died.  It's not clear if that's how he contracted the 'rona of course.

[LB3]

Got my rona test on Wednesday after my golf partner tested positive. I've been in league with him all year and have played in several large tournaments with him. I've got no symptoms and he's asymptomatic. Our area in NY never really got hit hard. I'll find out in the next few days.

 

Edit: I had tested positive on the antibody test when they were first being offered. I was pretty sick in February. I was still advised by the health department to take the Covid test. I wasn't sure if I'd need to get tested so that question was answered.

 

I will say it's been nice not making my hour and a half round trip to work the past two days. Working from home on VPN has been ok. Even though it's convenient waking up and being at work I'll say this. I look forward to going back my to my office. I personally am too easily distracted and having two 32" monitors as opposed to one tiny laptop monitor makes a huge difference in efficiency.

 

Here's some advice for anyone that works from home. At least bring your mouse.  

Edited August 22, 2020 by LB3

[shoshin]

9 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

 

Im sure there would have been strident opposition.  That’s why Rule #1 in the Pandemic Playbook the US wrote (and discarded) is “put an epidemiologist In charge and let them be the voice; politicians step back”.  The idea is that a public health problem is first and foremost, a communications problem, and that it needs to be de-politicized as much as possible.  
 

 

The CDC made a reopening plan that any region could follow. Only NY mostly adopted it. The other governors, no matter their political leanings, did not follow it. Leaving reopening to the governors, who all have their own health departments not versed in world pandemics like the Centers for friggin Disease friggin Control is, was poor leadership from the federal AND state levels. 
 

The utter lack of good leadership in this started at the top but it trickled down. Could we have prevented 170K deaths? No. Could we have had fewer deaths and a much more predictable recovery? Yes. 
 

That’s the past. Take it up with politicians in November and future Novembers. What we need now is to stem the tidal wave of ancillary fallout from Covid and get back to being open. 

Edited August 22, 2020 by shoshin